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swordfish

The Coronavirus - a virus from eating bats, an accident or something sinister gone wrong?

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1 hour ago, swordfish said:

Does anyone here actually (personally) know someone who has Covid 19? 

Not I.

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Starting to hit the U.S. Automobile industry:

Honda, BMW close plants in U.S. and Europe due to the coronavirus outbreak: 

Quote

Honda North America announced it will be closing four U.S.-based plants starting March 23 due to an anticipated decline in market demand related to the coronavirus. 

In a statement, Honda said it would halt production for six days and that it plans to return at the end of the month.

The hiatus will reduce production by approximately 40,000 vehicles, the company said. 

Honda North America and BMW are closing plants throughout the U.S. and Europe this week due to an anticipated decline in demand for cars related to the global coronavirus outbreak. 

Honda North America announced it will be closing four U.S.-based plants starting March 23 due to an anticipated decline in market demand. In a statement, Honda said it would halt production for six days with plans to return by the end of the month. The hiatus will reduce production by approximately 40,000 vehicles, the company said. 

“As the market impact of the fast-changing COVID-19 situation evolves, Honda will continue to evaluate conditions and make additional adjustments as necessary,” the company said in a statement. “In undertaking this production adjustment, Honda is continuing to manage its business carefully through a measured approach to sales that aligns production with market demand.”

Approximately 27,600 Honda associates in North America will be affected by this temporary suspension of production, but the company said it will continue full pay for all its associates.

....

At UAW’s Request, Detroit Three Sign on to Rotating Shutdowns: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2020/03/at-uaws-request-detroit-three-sign-on-to-rotating-shutdowns/

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At the urging of the United Auto Workers to do more to protect U.S. Detroit Three autoworkers, Ford, General Motors, and Fiat Chrysler have agreed to new coronavirus-fighting measures.

While the UAW initially pressed for a two-week production shutdown, the result of Tuesday’s talks was a series of rotating partial shutdowns, the union announced late last night. The move comes after extra disinfecting and social distancing measures announced by the Detroit Three late last week. It also comes as two new coronavirus cases appear at product development centers in Michigan.

Those cases are at Ford’s Dearborn campus and GM’s Warren Technical Center — coming days after a Fiat Chrysler employee tested positive for the virus at an Indiana transmission plant. Employees who came into contact with all three individuals have been ordered into self-quarantine for two weeks.

As for the UAW-Detroit Three pact, more details are expected Wednesday, though the union did state that “all three companies have agreed to review and implement the rotating partial shutdown of facilities, extensive deep cleaning of facility and equipment between shifts, extended periods between shifts, and extensive plans to avoid member contact.”

The three automakers will also focus on shift rotation to further curtail viral transmission.

In addition to the new protective measures, the automakers have “agreed to work with us in Washington, D.C., on behalf of our members as we manage the disruption in the industry,” the UAW said.

 

Wonder how long until the other auto manufacturing plants in Indiana shut down?  And then by extension the smaller part suppliers facilities.

 

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1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

I choose not live my life influenced by the media,  but many do.   

Frankly gonzo you are blind and deaf if you don't believe the MSM has help to shape the public's response to COVID-19.

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-how-media-coverage-of-epidemics-often-stokes-fear-and-panic-131844

 

The public hysteria didn’t start until the Government started closing things down. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

The public hysteria didn’t start until the Government started closing things down. 

If you say so.  I'm sure fear-mongering reporting by the MSM had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Priming the pump so to speak.

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-panic-buying-toilet-paper-stockpiling-photos-2020-3#in-hong-kong-the-coronavirus-caused-panic-buying-of-toilet-paper-as-early-as-mid-february-it-apparently-got-so-dire-that-an-armed-gang-robbed-a-shop-of-600-rolls-of-toilet-paper-one-day-1

Quote

The spread of the coronavirus has brought with it panic-buying of food and household essentials, despite the attempts of governments to discourage stockpiling. But no item has made more headlines than the humble toilet roll.

From buying enough toilet rolls to make a throne, to printing out blank newspaper pages to serve as extra toilet paper, people have had a seemingly insatiable desire to stockpile — even though manufacturers say there is no shortage.

Panic buying spread across Hong Kong in February and spread to countries including the UK, the US, Singapore, and Australia, according to multiple reports. 

....

Authorities said the panic buying was not the result of any shortage, and blamed false online rumors for the rush for toilet paper, the BBC reported.

...

Social media posts led people to believe, inaccurately, that the raw materials for masks and toilet paper are the same, and have the same Chinese source, reported the paper. 

This led to some shops selling out almost as soon as paper arrives, according to the paper.

....

 

Edited by Muda69
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Coronavirus and Panic Buying: There Is No Such Thing as Price Gouging: https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/coronavirus-there-is-no-such-thing-as-price-gouging/?utm_source=recirc-desktop&utm_medium=homepage&utm_campaign=river&utm_content=featured-content-trending&utm_term=first

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You, sir! You whose shopping cart squeals beneath the weight of half a dozen 48-packs of toilet tissue! Come now, be reasonable. How many rolls do you really need to get you through the next week or so? A four-pack, you say? Wonderful. Bless you for your civic-mindedness. You may now put 284 rolls of TP back on the shelves so that a dozen fellow citizens who really need it can get it.

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if someone trustworthy and courteous and concerned with the common good could stand in front of the registers at Costco calming people’s fears and successfully urging them to buy only what they actually need? Someone as folksy and good-hearted as, say, Jimmy Stewart during the scene in which there’s a run on the Building and Loan (i.e. bank) in It’s a Wonderful Life?

Good news, friends! We already have Jimmy Stewart. He’s right here among us. Only his name is “market pricing.”

My colleague John Hirschauer has looked at worrisome remarks made by politicians about interfering with pricing signals and explained the academic research on the wisdom of setting price controls during a crisis. Now let’s consider the matter from the point of view of community and common sense. Free enterprise — sometimes called capitalism — is a wonderful thing in normal times because during every non-coercive transaction, the buyer would rather have the thing he’s buying than the money, and the seller would rather have the money. Each freely entered-upon transaction increases global well-being.

But capitalism is especially useful in a crisis, when there is market disruption. When times turn dark, capitalism is, more than ever, your friend. Let’s say stores run out of toilet paper or hand sanitizer or diesel fuel because of panic buying during the age of COVID-19, and no one can find these items in stores. Why people are punching each other over the Charmin while leaving the Robitussin and Tylenol alone is a mystery, but that is of no moment. What matters is that toilet paper is suddenly more valuable simply because demand has surged. That means people are bidding up the price. Or they would be, if the stores allowed this. If Costco quadrupled the price of whatever item is selling out, there wouldn’t be any shortages of anything. Market pricing would restore normal functioning.

Costco doesn’t do this because of what economists call “good will,” which essentially means “fear of bad publicity propagated by economic illiterates.” So what does Costco do instead? It sells products for their everyday prices, creating the potential for a secondary market if shelves are empty. In other words, things that people are desperate to get are on sale for the same old price, except . . . you can’t find them anywhere. Thinking through this matter calls for the wisdom of Bruce Springsteen.

Springsteen used to sell tickets to his concerts for very low prices because he wanted ordinary working men and women to be able to afford them. What actually happened: Ticket resellers bought up all the tickets. So a ticket with a face value of $30 went for $100, except $70 of that went to a third party. At some point it occurred to Springsteen that if tickets to his shows were selling for $100, it didn’t make a lot of sense for $70 of that to go to a middleman who not only didn’t write “Born to Run,” he didn’t even write “Workin’ on a Dream.” Years ago, Springsteen dropped his “friend of the working man” pricing policy, which is why the last time I went to one of his concerts the face value of the ticket was $350. Is Springsteen guilty of “price gouging” for denying ticket resellers the opportunity to make gigantic profits from his work and artistry? Were those resellers guilty of “price gouging” for selling those tickets for what people were willing to pay?

Some guy who bought $70,000 worth of hand sanitizer and wipes with an eye toward “price gouging,” i.e. reselling these items for whatever the market determines their worth to be at this moment, should be drawn and quartered after he is tarred and feathered but before he is hanged from the nearest lamppost, say social-media users. Wrong. These items were selling for less than their market value at Dollar Tree and Walgreens, where the guy snapped them up. When retailers don’t charge market rates, middlemen naturally step in to ensure proper pricing. Would we rather he store the stuff in his basement and not share it with the community, which is what ordinary Costco hoarders are selfishly and mindlessly doing as a group? Why shrug at hoarding but be cross with the anti-hoarder, the reseller? Value is, as always, highly contingent on time and place, as you would know if you’ve ever bought a happy-hour drink, a Tuesday night ticket to the movies, or an off-peak train ticket.

What Sanitizer Man was trying to do was ordinary retail arbitrage, which is a widely practiced multibillion-dollar business even in non-panicky times. (Don’t believe me because I’m a heartless capitalist? Then take it from those fluffy empaths at NPR. There is an excellent Planet Money podcast on retail arbitrage.) In times of panic, such as when a storm hits, the value of certain items can increase dramatically. Snow shovels are worth a lot more after a blizzard. Batteries and flashlights are worth a lot more during a power outage. A wise merchant will adjust prices accordingly, i.e., offer a snow shovel that used to be $20 for $80. Denying that a thing is worth what another person is willing to pay for it is like denying any other scientific law, like gravity.

What happens if the merchant doesn’t “price gouge” is that his critical items may simply disappear instantly and the person who really needs that snow shovel, needs it so badly that he must have it right now, can’t have it. This is a needless, possibly lethal, cruelty that free movement of prices smoothly corrects (the economists Russ Roberts and Mike Munger explain in detail on the EconTalk podcast). Say that after a blizzard there’s a doctor whose old shovel just broke and who treats lots of elderly patients who might slip and fall and break bones on the sidewalk outside his office. He can’t have a shovel for any price because an ordinary homeowner who already has a serviceable shovel and whose house is not going to be approached by anyone anyway in the next few days happened to get to the store before the doctor and bought a backup he didn’t really need just in case.

Market pricing is how we allocate goods according to greatest need. It’s how we maintain civilization. When we allow market pricing to work its wonders, it forces people to be civic-minded, forces us to be that guy in It’s a Wonderful Life who decides he can get by on $20 for now, instead of taking out the $300 in his bank account. When we interfere with market pricing, it’s like turning away the public-spirited Jimmy Stewart and declaring that it’s every man for himself.

 

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9 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

The public hysteria didn’t start until the Government started closing things down. 

And a part of it was also due to uneven treatment from the government ... especially from the top.  First it's no big thing and we're tremendously prepared, then it's a big enough thing to shut down travel from some countries, then we've got plenty of testing going on, then it turns out that wasn't exactly true, then it would pass when it got warm, then it would maybe be around for a few months ... Folks have no stake in the ground to work from, no steady tiller, etc. and, when that happens it flows with the currents regardless of whether it's a steady stream or a rip-tide. 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/28/media/fox-news-donald-trump-coronavirus-reliable-sources/index.html

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/mar/17/poll-americans-dont-trust-what-theyre-hearing/

 

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37 minutes ago, swordfish said:

Image may contain: possible text that says 'If COVID-19 forces Planned Parenthood to be closed for two weeks, the virus will have SAVED more lives than it has taken.'

They were open for business yesterday on Indy’s NW side. Unless they were closed and the protesters out front didn’t get the memo.

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45 minutes ago, swordfish said:

Image may contain: possible text that says 'If COVID-19 forces Planned Parenthood to be closed for two weeks, the virus will have SAVED more lives than it has taken.'

Same could probably be said for gun stores/shows and some really sketchy hole-in-the-wall restaurants too.

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1 hour ago, foxbat said:

 Folks have no stake in the ground to work from, no steady tiller, etc. and, when that happens it flows with the currents regardless of whether it's a steady stream or a rip-tide. 

I don't believe that stake in the ground, steady tiller, etc. should be the federal government.

 

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The convenience store/gas station in Mulberry still has the couple of tables near the front door where old farmers gather most every morning to drink coffee, swap stories, and tell lies.  Shouldn't this be shut down in the interest of public health?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

The convenience store/gas station in Mulberry still has the couple of tables near the front door where old farmers gather most every morning to drink coffee, swap stories, and tell lies.  Shouldn't this be shut down in the interest of public health?

Yes, it should. And, assuming “old farmers” means they are in the high risk group, it’s especially important for these guys to take precautions to heart.

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1 minute ago, Bobref said:

Yes, it should. And, assuming “old farmers” means they are in the high risk group, it’s especially important for these guys to take precautions to heart.

Here you go:  https://www.google.com/maps/place/Marathon+Gas/@40.3445373,-86.6648134,16.75z/data=!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x88131153af5e7455:0xf470bad87bbba8fb!2sMulberry,+IN+46058!3b1!8m2!3d40.3444804!4d-86.6652821!3m4!1s0x88131154f54a5291:0xeb0c5e6544a4d795!8m2!3d40.3448494!4d-86.6648273

Clinton County Board of Health:  (765) 659-6385

 

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Fiat Chrysler, Ford, and General Motors to close all plants until at least March 30th:  https://apnews.com/4581ea83f606e5bb1833378c77cd63c4

Quote

...

Two people briefed on the matter said Wednesday that Ford, General Motors and Fiat Chrysler agreed to close all their factories. The two spoke on condition of anonymity because the closings had not been announced. The move would idle about 150,000 workers, who are likely to receive supplemental pay in addition to unemployment benefits.

....

https://www.kokomotribune.com/news/local_news/ap-fiat-chrysler-general-motors-and-ford-to-close-all/article_7060214a-688d-11ea-aab2-03e16a8f0313.html

Quote

The Associated Press is reporting Detroit’s three automakers, which includes Fiat Chrysler, Ford Motor Co. and General Motors, have agreed to close all of their factories due to worker fears about the coronavirus.

Automakers are expected to release details of the closure later today.

The decision reverses a deal worked out late Tuesday with the UAW in which the automakers would cancel some shifts so they could thoroughly cleanse equipment and buildings. But workers, especially at some FCA factories, were still fearful and were pressuring the union to seek full closures.

....

 

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19 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Did H1N1 cause the type of panic that Covid-19 has?  What about the good 'ole run-of-the-mill influenza?  Thousands of died from that this season alone,  yet no hysteria from the MSM.

 

I agree. I truly don’t remember if the govt enacted or changed much after H1N1. I don’t believe so. That event certainly didn’t seem to help us prepare much for the next big virus. 
 

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On 3/17/2020 at 11:18 AM, Muda69 said:

Airlines’ $58 Billion Bailout Request Puts Scrutiny on Past: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-17/airlines-58-billion-bailout-request-puts-past-under-scrutiny?sref=P6Q0mxvj

With all this "free money" due to COVID-19 everybody is coming to suck on the public teat,  regardless that it was their own past decisions that helped to put them where they are today.

 

 

7BA22F85-3510-4CC8-AE6A-A44BC9D26A7F.jpeg

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11 minutes ago, TrojanDad said:

 

7BA22F85-3510-4CC8-AE6A-A44BC9D26A7F.jpeg

Or the regular old Influenza virus that hospitalizes and kills tens of thousands of Americans every year.

 

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With the Dow down a couple grand again today, it's now at a point lower than when Trump took office.  Given that Trump tied almost all of his presidency on the economy, it could be problematic.  While there was a previous cartoon showing the Democratic Party relying on the Corona virus as an election strategy, similarly, Trump will likely need to also depend on it, from a 180 perspective and also hope for major economic snapback in seven months.  Being an external factor, as opposed to a foundational item like the Great Recession financial problems, it's possible ... the question will be,  "Is it probable?"  Of interest is that Trump will likely end up having to campaign on the same things that Republicans campaigned again Obama on in 2012 ... a bailout and a stimulus package payout.  

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That is assuming people lack the ability to see COVID 19 as special cause...an outlier. 
 

I guess BO and Uncle Joe can thank their lucky stars there wasn’t a similar reaction to H1N1....or that it didn’t occur in an election year......

D38C019D-6933-442F-85C9-E7A9830DDB46.jpeg

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More examples of fear mongering by the MSM.  From the front page of cbsnews.com:

 

fear2.thumb.jpg.f52cd1dc527e2366b61a775465a2c712.jpgfear1.jpg.90a2c159e9209f63265e11413a742fd5.jpg

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Placing the elderly in FEMA camps can't be too far off now.

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The new normal?:

427024ce-5334-4849-a422-f7ee0a214165-200

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2 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Are you attempting to incite hysteria here on the GID by posting this? Turns out you’re not any more responsible than the MSM.

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