Guest DT Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 All schools hilited in below chart should consider contraction option during this most difficult offseason. Revenues everywhere will be down and the cost of running a football program will grow to its highest percentage of athletic department funds available ever. ADs and admins should take into account recent records, competitiveness (point differential), coaching turnover, roster size, status of feeder programs, levels of community support, and overall financial impact Given the current events overtaking everyday life, public opposition to football contraction will be limited and greatly muted. Now is the best time to make the move, giving go forward playing schools the opportunity to react and reschedule where possible. CLASS 4A CLASS RANK STATE RANK TEAM OVERALL RATING SCHEDULE STRENGTH RANK RECENT RATING RANK PREDICTOR RATING RANK 55 252 Gary West 19.50 35.21 213 18.87 251 20.22 252 56 264 South Bend Clay 15.44 50.66 115 15.39 262 15.23 262 57 275 Jay County 10.56 40.01 175 10.54 275 10.33 278 58 281 Shelbyville 9.43 62.08 67 9.46 279 9.07 281 59 283 Connersville 8.76 44.17 147 8.01 284 9.39 280 60 285 Madison 8.22 38.48 189 7.68 285 8.04 285 61 288 Frankfort 7.00 48.93 125 4.39 292 9.62 279 CLASS 3A CLASS RANK STATE RANK TEAM OVERALL RATING SCHEDULE STRENGTH RANK RECENT RATING RANK PREDICTOR RATING RANK 58 280 Owen Valley 9.61 35.75 206 9.73 277 9.06 282 59 284 Benton Central 8.62 48.87 126 9.66 278 7.16 289 60 290 Indianapolis Manual 6.39 27.18 262 5.48 290 7.25 288 64 311 Pike Central -8.69 31.24 243 -9.14 311 -8.42 310 CLASS 2A CLASS RANK STATE RANK TEAM OVERALL RATING SCHEDULE STRENGTH RANK RECENT RATING RANK PREDICTOR RATING RANK 57 270 Prairie Heights 13.08 34.77 218 13.03 270 13.42 271 58 282 Whitko 8.79 34.23 222 6.20 289 11.30 274 59 287 Frankton 7.12 34.80 217 6.62 287 7.35 287 60 302 Union County -1.05 18.87 293 -2.32 302 -0.17 299 61 308 Elwood -6.69 36.13 204 -6.99 309 -6.73 307 62 309 Switzerland County -7.01 4.02 318 -6.17 307 -8.65 311 63 317 Crawford County -21.77 17.07 300 -20.82 317 -23.32 317 CLASS 1A CLASS RANK STATE RANK TEAM OVERALL RATING SCHEDULE STRENGTH RANK RECENT RATING RANK PREDICTOR RATING RANK 40 277 Union City 9.99 19.26 289 9.03 282 10.70 276 41 278 Southern Wells 9.97 33.72 226 11.70 273 7.61 286 42 279 North White 9.87 5.56 317 11.81 271 8.55 284 43 286 Riverton Parke 7.26 29.92 251 8.63 283 5.21 294 44 289 Cloverdale 6.56 32.84 233 6.55 288 6.09 292 45 292 Clinton Central 5.81 21.71 282 4.33 294 6.76 290 46 295 Eastern Greene 3.49 30.53 248 4.34 293 2.34 296 47 296 Tecumseh 2.99 22.15 279 2.84 297 2.75 295 48 297 Cambridge City Lincoln 2.52 17.89 299 4.95 291 -1.06 302 49 298 Oldenburg Academy 2.19 8.19 315 3.42 296 0.17 298 50 299 Park Tudor 1.60 22.94 274 2.67 298 0.21 297 51 300 South Decatur 0.88 11.94 307 1.48 300 -0.28 300 56 306 Caston -5.86 33.87 223 -7.34 310 -4.65 303 57 307 Taylor -6.48 21.72 281 -4.79 304 -9.81 312 58 312 Edinburgh -8.73 10.12 312 -10.69 312 -6.66 306 59 313 Tri-County -13.19 12.29 305 -13.54 314 -12.87 314 60 314 Lake Station -13.38 19.23 290 -11.30 313 -16.60 315 61 316 Gary Roosevelt -17.45 18.79 294 -16.90 316 -18.34 316 62 318 South Newton -23.72 11.80 309 -24.20 319 -23.44 318 63 320 Rock Creek Academy -25.54 -7.71 320 -25.29 320 -25.81 320 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 In week 9 2019, I had the wonderful opportunity to officiate the South Newton @ Lake Station football game. It was outstanding. Both teams had wonderful support from many, many, many fans. They played very well and so hard. They represented themselves, their families, schools and community with such amazing spirit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 1 hour ago, DT said: All schools hilited in below chart should consider contraction option during this most difficult offseason. Revenues everywhere will be down and the cost of running a football program will grow to its highest percentage of athletic department funds available ever. ADs and admins should take into account recent records, competitiveness (point differential), coaching turnover, roster size, status of feeder programs, levels of community support, and overall financial impact Given the current events overtaking everyday life, public opposition to football contraction will be limited and greatly muted. Now is the best time to make the move, giving go forward playing schools the opportunity to react and reschedule where possible. CLASS 4A CLASS RANK STATE RANK TEAM OVERALL RATING SCHEDULE STRENGTH RANK RECENT RATING RANK PREDICTOR RATING RANK 55 252 Gary West 19.50 35.21 213 18.87 251 20.22 252 56 264 South Bend Clay 15.44 50.66 115 15.39 262 15.23 262 57 275 Jay County 10.56 40.01 175 10.54 275 10.33 278 58 281 Shelbyville 9.43 62.08 67 9.46 279 9.07 281 59 283 Connersville 8.76 44.17 147 8.01 284 9.39 280 60 285 Madison 8.22 38.48 189 7.68 285 8.04 285 61 288 Frankfort 7.00 48.93 125 4.39 292 9.62 279 CLASS 3A CLASS RANK STATE RANK TEAM OVERALL RATING SCHEDULE STRENGTH RANK RECENT RATING RANK PREDICTOR RATING RANK 58 280 Owen Valley 9.61 35.75 206 9.73 277 9.06 282 59 284 Benton Central 8.62 48.87 126 9.66 278 7.16 289 60 290 Indianapolis Manual 6.39 27.18 262 5.48 290 7.25 288 64 311 Pike Central -8.69 31.24 243 -9.14 311 -8.42 310 CLASS 2A CLASS RANK STATE RANK TEAM OVERALL RATING SCHEDULE STRENGTH RANK RECENT RATING RANK PREDICTOR RATING RANK 57 270 Prairie Heights 13.08 34.77 218 13.03 270 13.42 271 58 282 Whitko 8.79 34.23 222 6.20 289 11.30 274 59 287 Frankton 7.12 34.80 217 6.62 287 7.35 287 60 302 Union County -1.05 18.87 293 -2.32 302 -0.17 299 61 308 Elwood -6.69 36.13 204 -6.99 309 -6.73 307 62 309 Switzerland County -7.01 4.02 318 -6.17 307 -8.65 311 63 317 Crawford County -21.77 17.07 300 -20.82 317 -23.32 317 CLASS 1A CLASS RANK STATE RANK TEAM OVERALL RATING SCHEDULE STRENGTH RANK RECENT RATING RANK PREDICTOR RATING RANK 40 277 Union City 9.99 19.26 289 9.03 282 10.70 276 41 278 Southern Wells 9.97 33.72 226 11.70 273 7.61 286 42 279 North White 9.87 5.56 317 11.81 271 8.55 284 43 286 Riverton Parke 7.26 29.92 251 8.63 283 5.21 294 44 289 Cloverdale 6.56 32.84 233 6.55 288 6.09 292 45 292 Clinton Central 5.81 21.71 282 4.33 294 6.76 290 46 295 Eastern Greene 3.49 30.53 248 4.34 293 2.34 296 47 296 Tecumseh 2.99 22.15 279 2.84 297 2.75 295 48 297 Cambridge City Lincoln 2.52 17.89 299 4.95 291 -1.06 302 49 298 Oldenburg Academy 2.19 8.19 315 3.42 296 0.17 298 50 299 Park Tudor 1.60 22.94 274 2.67 298 0.21 297 51 300 South Decatur 0.88 11.94 307 1.48 300 -0.28 300 56 306 Caston -5.86 33.87 223 -7.34 310 -4.65 303 57 307 Taylor -6.48 21.72 281 -4.79 304 -9.81 312 58 312 Edinburgh -8.73 10.12 312 -10.69 312 -6.66 306 59 313 Tri-County -13.19 12.29 305 -13.54 314 -12.87 314 60 314 Lake Station -13.38 19.23 290 -11.30 313 -16.60 315 61 316 Gary Roosevelt -17.45 18.79 294 -16.90 316 -18.34 316 62 318 South Newton -23.72 11.80 309 -24.20 319 -23.44 318 63 320 Rock Creek Academy -25.54 -7.71 320 -25.29 320 -25.81 320 So 20 1A teams should contract? Sounds like a bit much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 14 minutes ago, AG said: So 20 1A teams should contract? Sounds like a bit much. Agree, a bit too aggressive at the 1A level. When we get to 280 schools go forward, we will reclass as follows : 6A - 32 schools 5A - 54 4A - 54 3A - 54 2A - 54 1A - 32 6A (Mega) and 1A (Tiny) are specialty classes and will be classified as such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCGrad92 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 While I dont agree with the contraction idea, the idea he has that I do agree with is the smaller size in 1A, should be 32 in 6A, 64 in 5,4,3,2 and rest in 1A up to 64 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 I'm thinking there might be a flaw in the algorithm ... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 15 minutes ago, foxbat said: I'm thinking there might be a flaw in the algorithm ... And there probably has been for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, foxbat said: I'm thinking there might be a flaw in the algorithm ... As you look at the 1A contraction list, ask yourself this question. Which of these are "football schools?" Then simply remove them from the list. "The list" gets us to the desired 280 number well ahead of the original 5 year plan. Blame CV for this Edited March 29, 2020 by DT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, WCGrad92 said: While I dont agree with the contraction idea, the idea he has that I do agree with is the smaller size in 1A, should be 32 in 6A, 64 in 5,4,3,2 and rest in 1A up to 64 I know this will come totally out of left field, but I don’t agree with this crazy notion either. Why? Because I am alum of a 1A school (guess which one😉) and I can tell you a few things: Football brings people together. Beyond the players who are learning strategy, and team building skills, it allows fans to get together and mingle. It’s also allows small businesses to get their name out. Ancillary services. Band, cheer squads, and athletic trainers all have the opportunity to hone their craft before taking it to the next level. Supporter of other sports. Football as well as basketball are the primary breadwinners in the IHS double A. Therefore the money they take in through gate receipts, etc. will help fund the smaller sports such as wresting which ultimately FB players do participate in. Edited March 29, 2020 by Gipper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 6 hours ago, DT said: All schools hilited in below chart should consider contraction option during this most difficult offseason. Revenues everywhere will be down and the cost of running a football program will grow to its highest percentage of athletic department funds available ever. ADs and admins should take into account recent records, competitiveness (point differential), coaching turnover, roster size, status of feeder programs, levels of community support, and overall financial impact Given the current events overtaking everyday life, public opposition to football contraction will be limited and greatly muted. Now is the best time to make the move, giving go forward playing schools the opportunity to react and reschedule where possible. CLASS 4A CLASS RANK STATE RANK TEAM OVERALL RATING SCHEDULE STRENGTH RANK RECENT RATING RANK PREDICTOR RATING RANK 55 252 Gary West 19.50 35.21 213 18.87 251 20.22 252 56 264 South Bend Clay 15.44 50.66 115 15.39 262 15.23 262 57 275 Jay County 10.56 40.01 175 10.54 275 10.33 278 58 281 Shelbyville 9.43 62.08 67 9.46 279 9.07 281 59 283 Connersville 8.76 44.17 147 8.01 284 9.39 280 60 285 Madison 8.22 38.48 189 7.68 285 8.04 285 61 288 Frankfort 7.00 48.93 125 4.39 292 9.62 279 The 4A list looks legitimate. All programs that have continually struggled for years, if not decades. Sure they may have their "once in a decade (or two)" kind of team but it is pretty clear community support is waning in many of these programs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCGrad92 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Gipper said: I know this will come totally out of left field, but I don’t agree with this crazy notion either. Why? Because I am alum of a 1A school (guess which one😉) and I can tell you a few things: Football brings people together. Beyond the players who are learning strategy, and team building skills, it allows fans to get together and mingle. It’s also allows small businesses to get their name out. Ancillary services. Band, cheer squads, and athletic trainers all have the opportunity to hone their craft before taking it to the next level. Supporter of other sports. Football as well as basketball are the primary breadwinners in the IHS double A. Therefore the money they take in through gate receipts, etc. will help fund the smaller sports such as wresting which ultimately FB players do participate in. I didn't mean that from a numbers on the team standpoint, I meant that the classification should be 32 in 6A, 62 in 5A and 4A and 3A and 2A, with the remaining lowest enrollment teams be in 1A. Not leaving anyone out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 33 minutes ago, WCGrad92 said: I didn't mean that from a numbers on the team standpoint, I meant that the classification should be 32 in 6A, 62 in 5A and 4A and 3A and 2A, with the remaining lowest enrollment teams be in 1A. Not leaving anyone out. I agree. The modified form of socialism being offered is crazy. My thoughts remain the same about how football can also be a cultural thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaSalle Lions 1976 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I think we are considering the wrong approach. In 2007 the Kernan-Shepherd report offered a suggestion that all school districts should have at least 2000 students. I know one of you computer geniuses would be able to fine that part of the report for all to see. I think it is a great idea and a better use of resouces. For football...there would be the consolidation without regard to athletics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said: I think we are considering the wrong approach. In 2007 the Kernan-Shepherd report offered a suggestion that all school districts should have at least 2000 students. I know one of you computer geniuses would be able to fine that part of the report for all to see. I think it is a great idea and a better use of resouces. For football...there would be the consolidation without regard to athletics The Kernan-Shepherd report also advocated for the dissolution of county townships, all 1000+ of them. Government is better the more local it is, although I often wonder exactly what most county townships actually do these days. The township I currently reside in mostly just throws taxpayer money away. And here is a PDF to said report: http://indianalocalgovreform.iu.edu/assets/docs/Report_12-10-07.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 (edited) Until this virus thing is managed, we’ve all been contracted... ...or is it voted off the island? Edited March 30, 2020 by Gipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustRules Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 20 hours ago, DT said: As you look at the 1A contraction list, ask yourself this question. Which of these are "football schools?" Then simply remove them from the list. "The list" gets us to the desired 280 number well ahead of the original 5 year plan. Blame CV for this The biggest flaw in your logic is we get down to 280 schools there will still be a similar number of 0-10/1-9 teams and teams with low Sagarin ratings. Then we contract them. We'll eventually have 2 teams left. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, JustRules said: The biggest flaw in your logic is we get down to 280 schools there will still be a similar number of 0-10/1-9 teams and teams with low Sagarin ratings. Then we contract them. We'll eventually have 2 teams left. Not necessarily. I see this initiative as a "one time cleansing." There are some very, very bad football programs on the list. Many would likely welcome the opportunity to contract and reorient funds where kids actually have positive high school experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nowlin Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 What if IHSAA adopts 8 man?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustRules Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, DT said: Not necessarily. I see this initiative as a "one time cleansing." There are some very, very bad football programs on the list. Many would likely welcome the opportunity to contract and reorient funds where kids actually have positive high school experience. And if we only have 280 teams the bottom 20-30 would appear to be very bad football programs. It's all relative. No matter how many teams you have there will always be a percentage at the bottom with 0 or 1 wins. I've worked games with many of these teams and for the most part they still have players that play hard and have some talent. Many of them are on your list. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Although there will be winners, there will also be losers—math always wins... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 34 minutes ago, JustRules said: And if we only have 280 teams the bottom 20-30 would appear to be very bad football programs. It's all relative. No matter how many teams you have there will always be a percentage at the bottom with 0 or 1 wins. I've worked games with many of these teams and for the most part they still have players that play hard and have some talent. Many of them are on your list. Yes. There will be a new bottom. And the quality and level of play will be improved. This is the ultimate objective of contraction. The improvement of overall competitive balance through the elimination of bottom dwelling - chronically uncompetitive programs. That doesn't sound like such a negative undertaking, does it? Sounds logical to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 48 minutes ago, TrojanDad said: Sounds like Jack's Welch's style of performance management during his GE years. Eliminate the ones on the bottom....each year there is a new bottom. "Rank and Yank" That doesn't exist anymore in GE..... Jack kicked the bucket a few weeks ago... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 1 hour ago, TrojanDad said: Sounds like Jack's Welch's style of performance management during his GE years. Eliminate the ones on the bottom....each year there is a new bottom. "Rank and Yank" That doesn't exist anymore in GE..... Expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AG Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I imagine that this is DT and Muda when a rural 1A school closes their football program. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, AG said: I imagine that this is DT and Muda when a rural 1A school closes their football program. And you would be wrong. But go ahead, keep believing that if it makes you feel better about yourself. However I will celebrate when government gets out of the education business entirely. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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