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Corona and Fall Sports

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Stax, that is all well and good, and I totally understand the financial end of it. That is the only reason I would be on board with a switch would be the financial aspects.  Its unfortunate, but I get it.  What I think gets lost is that again, for safety reasons, I think you would have to mirror that same schedule (6 games, no bye weeks, etc) in the fall of 2021.

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4 hours ago, Staxawax said:

As Bobby Cox was quoted in The Star article, football is the #1 money maker, and combined with Boys Basketball helps pay for spring sports.  There may not be another option than to play football in the spring....... killing 2 birds with 1 stone.  Getting the revenue and not have to pay for spring sports.

For the non-football schools, let them have their spring sports and have tournaments that are non-class, although it would be mostly small schools anyway.

Start the season the 1st Friday in March, 6 games, 3 home and 3 road for all. Tournament would start mid-April, no bye weeks and finish up early May. Eliminate conferences for the season since a full slate can not be played. Not ideal I know, but at least there will be a season, and that would still leave 10 weeks or so before fall practice.

The boys basketball sectional is the first Friday in March and the tournament  runs through March.  You also have 1 or 2 week spring breaks in middle/late March or early April to deal with.  You all are grasping at straws with this spring football idea...will never happen.  

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On 4/23/2020 at 7:44 PM, Bobref said:

Speak for yourself. 

Let's say we have some semblance of a football season. Do you foresee us having an even larger shortage of officials due to many being considered 'high-risk' of the virus?

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49 minutes ago, EricFeller said:

Let's say we have some semblance of a football season. Do you foresee us having an even larger shortage of officials due to many being considered 'high-risk' of the virus?

That is really an excellent question. Like so many other potential consequences of the pandemic, I haven’t a clue.

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6 hours ago, Staxawax said:

As Bobby Cox was quoted in The Star article, football is the #1 money maker, and combined with Boys Basketball helps pay for spring sports.  There may not be another option than to play football in the spring....... killing 2 birds with 1 stone.  Getting the revenue and not have to pay for spring sports.

For the non-football schools, let them have their spring sports and have tournaments that are non-class, although it would be mostly small schools anyway.

Start the season the 1st Friday in March, 6 games, 3 home and 3 road for all. Tournament would start mid-April, no bye weeks and finish up early May. Eliminate conferences for the season since a full slate can not be played. Not ideal I know, but at least there will be a season, and that would still leave 10 weeks or so before fall practice.

This is the real reason.  Football gate money and the State Finals fund high school sports.  If social distancing practices (of some type...think "large crowds") are still in place this fall, it would prevent that revenue....it is not just "outside of the box" thinking, you could argue its the financially responsible decision.  I would hate it personally, but not over the choice of just cancelling football for an entire year.

 

As far as conflicting with basketball state finals....I think a lot of IHSAA "dates" would be shuffled if such a change would occur.  I don't always agree with IHSAA decisions, but I have faith they'd get that figured out.

Edited by US31

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The IHSAA won’t mess with spring sports for 2 consecutive years.  And let’s say this fantasy of spring football does happen, the IHSAA will take a financial hit because attendance will not be what it is in the fall.  The way the tournament is set up now you have the state finals during a break...allowing for 2 consecutive days of state finals games.  How does that look like in the spring?

If there is no football this fall then what you will see is the IHSAA taking a big % (or 100%) of the sectional revenues from girls and boys basketball in 20-21 and then likely the same thing in the fall of 21 with football and possibly both basketballs.  This pandemic is most certainly putting a strain on the budgets of the IHSAA and athletic departments, but what I fear more is what does this pandemic do to state education funding next year and the future?  There may be some major issues there.    

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One thing that I don’t believe has been discussed is what impact this virus will have on overall participation numbers. I could see a lot of parents and students decide to avoid organized sports for a while due to the uncertainty surrounding this situation. Football in particular could really suffer if a lot “on the fence” players decide not to participate.

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24 minutes ago, wrcsage said:

The IHSAA won’t mess with spring sports for 2 consecutive years.  And let’s say this fantasy of spring football does happen, the IHSAA will take a financial hit because attendance will not be what it is in the fall.  The way the tournament is set up now you have the state finals during a break...allowing for 2 consecutive days of state finals games.  How does that look like in the spring?

If there is no football this fall then what you will see is the IHSAA taking a big % (or 100%) of the sectional revenues from girls and boys basketball in 20-21 and then likely the same thing in the fall of 21 with football and possibly both basketballs.  This pandemic is most certainly putting a strain on the budgets of the IHSAA and athletic departments, but what I fear more is what does this pandemic do to state education funding next year and the future?  There may be some major issues there.    

State Finals would likely be in June, similar to Baseball.  I don't know that...but the Ohio proposal does something similar.  I also don't think attendance will be as affected as you think, the appetite for football would be huge, and the novelty of it would likely draw crowds especially if social distancing was done by then.

I'm not saying I want this to happen....I want us to come back from moratorium and be back to football.  

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18 minutes ago, US31 said:

State Finals would likely be in June, similar to Baseball.  I don't know that...but the Ohio proposal does something similar.  I also don't think attendance will be as affected as you think, the appetite for football would be huge, and the novelty of it would likely draw crowds especially if social distancing was done by then.

I'm not saying I want this to happen....I want us to come back from moratorium and be back to football.  

I've been thinking about the first comment in bold and I'm not so sure there would be the same fan appetite for high school football in the spring.  Especially if the NFL and NCAA seasons go off in the fall, even if just on television.  The average person would have gotten their "fix" and would be ready to move on to the more traditional calendar.  It sounds ridiculous to think about this too, but families are still going to go on vacations in the spring and early summer too regardless of what sports are being played.  You stand to lose players and fans to spring break, the timing of which varies from school to school of course.  And before you scoff at that notion, do two things; ask a spring sport coach what the most annoying thing about playing in the spring is, most will tell you it is navigating spring break. Secondly, look at how many people still traveled this past spring break as we went from 0 to 100 on restrictions, because I can tell you in our area it was a lot of folks.  Do I still have an appetite for football in the spring?  Hell yes!  I tried to watch every AAF and XFL game I could.  My wife, who I would say is a more casual fan even though she is more rabid than most, on the other hand?  Her appetite is not near as strong.  She's ready to garden come the spring.  I have to remind myself sometimes that most folks out there just don't care as much about football as I/we do.  They have other concerns in life.  They love football when it's on, but they can, will, and do survive just fine without it.  As with all this, I could be wrong; may interest skyrockets, but I don't think it's a slam dunk.

To the second comment, at this point, I'm afraid that even if "social distancing" is done away with tomorrow, you are still going to have a significant portion of the population who will continue these practices out of fear for their health, whether they are told the threat is mitigated or not.  That portion of the population may "social distance" for years, which is their right of course.  My fear is that that portion of the population may be bigger than any of us realize.

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Our youngest daughter is a student at Indiana University.  She shared an email from President McRobbie communicated to students and faculty.  As you will see from some of his communication below, returning to school as normal this fall does not seem promising.  So they are working on contingencies.  I cut out pieces of the pretty long communication......

It would be hard to see a scenario in which universities are not in session, but high schools are.....I would assume they follow similar logic in their decision-making.

To this end, we are planning for five such scenarios for the 2020-21 academic year.

Scenario 1 is a return to in-person teaching and research in the fall. This, of course, is the scenario all of us would most prefer, but it is also highly unlikely. As experts have warned, it is likely we will need to continue social distancing and many other preventive measures to detect and protect against the spread of COVID-19 until a vaccine is widely deployed. This will mean that even a return to in-person teaching and research would require careful consideration of, among other measures, reconfiguring large lecture classes; re-engineering courses and performances that bring people into close physical contact; and modifying laboratory and studio practices to ensure proper distancing, numbers of people in gatherings and cleaning.

Scenario 2 is a "hybrid" reopening in the fall involving both in-person and virtual teaching and research. At this point, this is the scenario we believe is the most likely, though this could change rapidly with some new positive or negative development. The balance between in-person and virtual teaching would emerge from the impact of continuing public health directives. This scenario has several variations, each of which would require a high level of flexibility to accommodate rapid change in the course of the pandemic, as well as the need to accommodate students and faculty who are unable to attend class in-person -- whether due to illness, self-isolation, special vulnerability to COVID-19 or travel restrictions. 

................

Restarting university operations

So how will we decide how to return to in-person education of the kind outlined in Scenario 2? To put it more broadly, how will we "restart" university operations? Ultimately, until a vaccine arrives, it will likely involve the deployment of some combination of:

  • Continued social distancing.
  • Fast and comprehensive virus testing and, perhaps, antibody testing.
  • Therapeutics.
  • Temperature monitoring and surveillance.
  • Contact tracing.

............

The recommendations of the Restart Committee will then be used to begin a phased resumption of university operations, in which we assess the success and lessons learned from each new phase of restarted operations to build confidence for the next. Thus, subject to the governor's decisions about the future of Indiana's lockdown and to the recommendations of the Restart Committee, it is our aim -- as one of the first of these "confidence-building measures" -- to fully restart all university research activities as soon as is practicable.

.............

 

A final word

We are still far from sure what form the next academic year will take, but it will almost certainly look and feel different. COVID-19 will be with us this fall in some way, and perhaps longer, until a cure is uncovered. To this end, I do not want to sugarcoat the situation with trite phrases or hollow optimism. Even under the best of circumstances, academic and research life at IU will not be the same for some time, and we will feel the repercussions of this pandemic for many years.

We have already had to make several difficult decisions, and we will have many more to make in the coming weeks and months. However, our investments over many decades in basic infrastructure, key efficiencies, inter-campus collaboration, innovation and fiscal responsibility have put IU in a good position to weather this storm. It will not be easy. But one thing is clear: It will take all of us -- working together with wisdom, fierce determination, flexibility and resolve -- to surmount the current crisis.

With my deepest appreciation for your ongoing commitment to the health and well-being of the IU community and the many communities on all of our campuses,

Michael A. McRobbie

President
Indiana University

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6 hours ago, wrcsage said:

The boys basketball sectional is the first Friday in March and the tournament  runs through March.  You also have 1 or 2 week spring breaks in middle/late March or early April to deal with.  You all are grasping at straws with this spring football idea...will never happen.  

Why are you acting like the school schedule for '20-'21 is going to look anything like normal?  

Basketball sectionals can be M-T-Th-Sat.  The remaining tourney games are on Sat.

No one should be planning a spring break until it is officially scheduled.  Don't count on the norm in a Pandemic era.

This isn't grasping at straws, it's a possible scenario to keep the IHSAA and athletic departments in the black. 

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36 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

No one should be planning a spring break until it is officially scheduled.  Don't count on the norm in a Pandemic era.

I think most parents I've run into make their spring break plans whenever they want whether it's already been scheduled or not. We've had a two week spring break for years now and you would be shocked at the number of kids that we still have miss up to a week of school because "we've already made our plans."  I don't think a pandemic, epidemic, natural disaster, or end of the world is going to change that.  As our softball coach points out every year, "God forbid you mess with someone's spring break!"

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21 minutes ago, wabashalwaysfights said:

I think most parents I've run into make their spring break plans whenever they want whether it's already been scheduled or not.

...

As our softball coach points out every year, "God forbid you mess with someone's spring break!"

 

Ain't that the truth!  And fall break plans, summer break plans, 4th of July plans, Memorial Day plans, Cinco de Mayo plans, plain old "going to the lake" plans, ... and the ever popular "whatever screws up the weekend tournament" plans.

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On 4/30/2020 at 1:20 PM, wabashalwaysfights said:

And before you scoff at that notion, do two things; ask a spring sport coach what the most annoying thing about playing in the spring is, most will tell you it is navigating spring break. Secondly, look at how many people still traveled this past spring break as we went from 0 to 100 on restrictions, because I can tell you in our area it was a lot of folks.  Do I still have an appetite for football in the spring?  Hell yes!  I tried to watch every AAF and XFL game I could. 

Many.....Many schools have a one week fall break during football season.  Some during the last week of season or first week of tournament 

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37 minutes ago, US31 said:

Many.....Many schools have a one week fall break during football season.  Some during the last week of season or first week of tournament 

Not the same... not even close to the same as spring break. 

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On 4/30/2020 at 9:16 AM, EricFeller said:

Let's say we have some semblance of a football season. Do you foresee us having an even larger shortage of officials due to many being considered 'high-risk' of the virus?

I’ll be more than willing to step up and work by *** off for my crew and both teams. 

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1 hour ago, wabashalwaysfights said:

Not the same... not even close to the same as spring break. 

Because it's football season

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4 hours ago, wabashalwaysfights said:

Not the same... not even close to the same as spring break. 

There is way more family traveling in the fall than you know.  I've heard from MIC schools who have said some big games were poorly attended because of fall break.

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8 hours ago, Raven67 said:

Because it's football season

No, it's largely because of the weather.

5 hours ago, Staxawax said:

There is way more family traveling in the fall than you know.  I've heard from MIC schools who have said some big games were poorly attended because of fall break.

Thats all well and good, and I'm sure there are dips, but I think if I'm unaware of how much family traveling there is on fall break, you are equally unaware or are underestimating how much more family traveling there is in spring break. Part of that too is the extended time of Spring break; many if not most schools now have a two week spring break and while you would think that would mean that the break becomes "enclosed" (that is, kids won't miss school outside of that period) it doesn't. Sorry, but at the end of the day, comparing fall break to spring break is comparing apples to oranges. They are both fruit, both good for you, but they are definitely not the same. Spring break and fall break are both breaks in the school calendar, families will travel, but they are definitely not the same. Folks anticipate nicer weather in the spring, people set up their work schedule for spring break, which is often done years in advance. It just is not the same no matter how you slice it, and that's not going to change, even in a situation like this. If the powers that be still choose to flip the calendar for whatever reason, that's fine and it may work out, but this notion that everybody's going to abandon their traditional spring break plans just because football would be played in the spring is just not logical.

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39 minutes ago, wabashalwaysfights said:

No, it's largely because of the weather.

Thats all well and good, and I'm sure there are dips, but I think if I'm unaware of how much family traveling there is on fall break, you are equally unaware or are underestimating how much more family traveling there is in spring break. Part of that too is the extended time of Spring break; many if not most schools now have a two week spring break and while you would think that would mean that the break becomes "enclosed" (that is, kids won't miss school outside of that period) it doesn't. Sorry, but at the end of the day, comparing fall break to spring break is comparing apples to oranges. They are both fruit, both good for you, but they are definitely not the same. Spring break and fall break are both breaks in the school calendar, families will travel, but they are definitely not the same. Folks anticipate nicer weather in the spring, people set up their work schedule for spring break, which is often done years in advance. It just is not the same no matter how you slice it, and that's not going to change, even in a situation like this. If the powers that be still choose to flip the calendar for whatever reason, that's fine and it may work out, but this notion that everybody's going to abandon their traditional spring break plans just because football would be played in the spring is just not logical.

We see this in the college ranks all the time.  Students start taking off for Spring Break usually the Wednesday/Thursday/Friday before Spring Break and often extend Spring Break into the Monday/Tuesday after Spring Break.  Instead of a week, it is easily a week and a half to two weeks.  It wouldn't be so bad except students are downright indignant if you happen to have anything due in the days before or after the break.  That has not really expanded  to the fall with the Fall Break as it's only two days, but Thanksgiving Break has started to become the new "Fall Spring Break."  Students start leaving in sizeable/noticeable numbers that Monday of Thanksgiving even though the university's break doesn't start until Wednesday.  I had a student complaining that I gave a make-up exam for a missed mid-term on that Monday.  A few semester's ago, I had a student complain that there was an exam on the Friday before Thanksgiving ... the week before ... because it interfered with their airline tickets that had been booked for the Thursday before Thanksgiving.  We are starting to see sizeable amounts of students just basically assuming that Thanksgiving Break is a whole week, even though it's just the Wednesday/Thursday/Friday and, recently, we've been seeing the creeping of students starting Thanksgiving Break into that week before Thanksgiving.  Oddly enough, we've not yet seen the creeping to students extending Thanksgiving Break on the back end, like they do with Spring Break.

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7 hours ago, Staxawax said:

There is way more family traveling in the fall than you know.  I've heard from MIC schools who have said some big games were poorly attended because of fall break.

That's true...especially with fall break extended to 1-2 weeks.

That impacts attendance for at least 2 games.  Streaming makes it easy to watch when on vacation.

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12 hours ago, Staxawax said:

There is way more family traveling in the fall than you know.  I've heard from MIC schools who have said some big games were poorly attended because of fall break.

Which MIC schools are you and @TrojanDad referring to? 

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Don't be surprised if there are NO spring breaks inserted into the academic year.

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On 4/28/2020 at 1:48 PM, Raven67 said:

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) has yet to see something similar in the United States, which has the greatest number of coronavirus infections and deaths."We are not aware of any reports of this phenomenon in the United States," Dr. Yvonne Maldonado, who chairs the academy's committee on infectious disease, said in an email, referring to a potential link between COVID-19 and Kawasaki-type symptoms.

Dr. Sean O’Leary, a paediatric infectious diseases expert at Children's Hospital Colorado who is part of that AAP committee, said his hospital has seen several cases of Kawasaki this year, but none in the more than 30 children admitted for COVID-19.

"Even if it is related, is a very rare complication," he said. "If it were more common, we'd already have a pretty good idea about it in the United States."

And in less than a week, it seems to have found its way here.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/05/health/nyc-children-hospitalized-inflammatory-coronavirus/index.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/05/dr-scott-gottlieb-kawasaki-disease-in-kids-may-have-coronavirus-link.html

 

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