Jump to content
Head Coach Openings 2024 ×
  • Current Donation Goals

    • Raised $2,716 of $3,600 target

Has the NLC Seen its Best Days?


Guest DT

Recommended Posts

Despite the exciting new addition of Mishawaka and the growing success of Warsaw, the NLC seems to be in a downward spiral.

Many schools in the conference are experiencing declining participation.  The league has been invisible in the post season for some time now.  

From a talent standpoint, there is very little D1 recruiting activity around the conference.  Talent might be at an all time low.

Is the NLC becoming irrelevent?

If yes, what can the league do to strengthen and reinforce its competitive football profile.  Mishawaka doesn't seem to be enough.

Is New Prairie a potential target?  Culver Military?  SB St Joe?  

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, DT said:

Despite the exciting new addition of Mishawaka and the growing success of Warsaw, the NLC seems to be in a downward spiral.

Many schools in the conference are experiencing declining participation.  The league has been invisible in the post season for some time now.  

From a talent standpoint, there is very little D1 recruiting activity around the conference.  Talent might be at an all time low.

Is the NLC becoming irrelevent?

If yes, what can the league do to strengthen and reinforce its competitive football profile.  Mishawaka doesn't seem to be enough.

Is New Prairie a potential target?  Culver Military?  SB St Joe?  

 

 

 

Northwood went to state in 2016 and went 11-1 in 2018. 

Concord has won sectionals 2 of the last 3 years. 

Northridge went 11-3 in 2014. Went 9-1 in 2017. 

Plymouth went 11-1, in 14, 10-3 in 15, 9-3 last year. 

Carry on, talking about crap you don't know.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 5
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

On 4/24/2020 at 10:59 AM, DT said:

Despite the exciting new addition of Mishawaka and the growing success of Warsaw, the NLC seems to be in a downward spiral.

Many schools in the conference are experiencing declining participation.  The league has been invisible in the post season for some time now.  

From a talent standpoint, there is very little D1 recruiting activity around the conference.  Talent might be at an all time low.

Is the NLC becoming irrelevent?

If yes, what can the league do to strengthen and reinforce its competitive football profile.  Mishawaka doesn't seem to be enough.

Is New Prairie a potential target?  Culver Military?  SB St Joe?  

 

 

 

So you are saying that bringing in New Prairie, Culver Academy,  and South Bend St Joseph will increase the D1 football talent pool?

Hate to burst your bubble, but, overall a little over 7% of high school athletes (about 1 in 14) went on to play a varsity sport in college and less than 2% of high school athletes (1 in 54) went on to play at NCAA D1 schools.

Being a D1 college athlete is more than just showing up to practice.  There is a lot of commitment to playing a collegiate sport.  Let alone football!

High school football declining is not just occuring in Indiana.  Yeah, high school football participation dipped in Indiana.

Fewer and fewer high school athletes are playing football across the country each year and, after initially bucking the trend, Indiana is no exception.

Football participation was down 3.4 percent in Indiana for the 2017 season, from 21,589 players in 2016 to 20,849, according to the 2017-2018 High School Athletics Participation Survey conducted by the National Federation of of State High School Associations.

It's not just in football, its essentionallt all over the place.  There are only so many kids and the opportuniities for kids to play sports keep expanding.

There are also fewer kids playing multiple sports.  Kids have started to specialize now more than ever . . . . if you could the average Indiana high school has probably somewhere between 18-20 sports.  Kids are specializing in volleyball, basketball, baseball, softball, soccer, etc. And, yeah, it happens at big schools.

Football has, indeed, suffered a decline in Indiana, however, due to some recent studies, there has been increase in the number of high school athletes. From 2016-17 to 2017-18, there was an increase of just over 1,000 participants.

In line with Ultimate Warrior, you need more than just a few lines of looking at rosters and state tournament success.

Might I suggest DT that you do some homework and report back when you have something solid to report.

 

As always, the game is better

from_the_sidelines007

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

After some further research . . .  here are a few more positive numbers.

According to Chris Kaufman (IHSAA), participation in Indiana high school football, grades 9-12, increased in 2019:
2018 – 20,217
2019 – 20,823
 

With the improvement in football headgear, pads, better technique teaching from coaches.  Football, well, has never been safer.

Oh, and one more thing, the life skills taught our young men by these great coaches are invaluable!

 

as always, the game is better

from_the_sidelines007

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/24/2020 at 10:59 AM, DT said:

Despite the exciting new addition of Mishawaka and the growing success of Warsaw, the NLC seems to be in a downward spiral.

Many schools in the conference are experiencing declining participation.  The league has been invisible in the post season for some time now.  

From a talent standpoint, there is very little D1 recruiting activity around the conference.  Talent might be at an all time low.

Is the NLC becoming irrelevent?

If yes, what can the league do to strengthen and reinforce its competitive football profile.  Mishawaka doesn't seem to be enough.

Is New Prairie a potential target?  Culver Military?  SB St Joe?  

While I do not get nearly as riled up as others with your posts... this one seems to hold little weight.

Concerning postseason success, I would point out that Concord, Goshen and Memorial were all in the same sectional since the move to 6 classes. So that leaves 1 potential 5A sectional champion from that group of 3 teams. Then you have Northridge, NorthWood, and Wawasee who typically have been included in the same sectional as well, and at times Plymouth was also included in the same sectional. So that again leaves 1 potential (maybe 2 depending where Plymouth ended up) 4A sectional champion from that group of 4 teams. That makes it pretty difficult to have postseason succes when all your conference mates have to also be beaten in order for one to be the champion.

Also - can you please provide statistical information confirming your statement of "schools in the conference are experiencing declining participation"? Where are you sources on this?

Concerning D1 recruiting - I have to be honest, how many D1 athletes have even played in the NLC since 2000? The only three D1 athletes I can think of from Warsaw would be Brad Seiss, Jake Rogers and Harrison Mevis (two of which are kickers). Thinking back to all the great teams and athletes this millinium from Concord, Plymouth, NorthWood and even Wawasee... how many went D1? My point is I do not feel like it's all of a sudden a loss in talent. Not like the NLC was ever a huge D1 recruiting hot bed in the first place like the Duneland, SAC or MIC.

Concerning the NLC becoming irrelevent... again, I'm not sure where you're coming up with this statement. If anything, the addition of Mishawaka and growing success of Warsaw makes the conference MORE relevant. Programs like Concord, NorthWood and Plymouth regularly have successful seasons and make noise in the postseason. Adding Mishawaka increases that likelyhood of continuing and if schools like Warsaw and Northridge (sorry Goshen and Wawasee) can continue to build strong programs, I would say the NLC is as relevant as it has ever been.

Finally - no, the NLC has no interest in moving past 8 members at this time. Perhaps if the NIC were to completely see a siesmic shift due to South Bend schools consolidating or something MAYBE they would consider adding a few members, but I am pretty sure New Prairie was already turned away once and personally if there were 2 additional schools I'd like to see added, I would pick SB St Joe and Mishawaka Marian as potential additions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/27/2020 at 3:10 PM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

While I do not get nearly as riled up as others with your posts... this one seems to hold little weight.

Concerning postseason success, I would point out that Concord, Goshen and Memorial were all in the same sectional since the move to 6 classes. So that leaves 1 potential 5A sectional champion from that group of 3 teams. Then you have Northridge, NorthWood, and Wawasee who typically have been included in the same sectional as well, and at times Plymouth was also included in the same sectional. So that again leaves 1 potential (maybe 2 depending where Plymouth ended up) 4A sectional champion from that group of 4 teams. That makes it pretty difficult to have postseason succes when all your conference mates have to also be beaten in order for one to be the champion.  State championship teams bring back great notoriety to their home conferences.  Its been a long time for the NLC.  

Also - can you please provide statistical information confirming your statement of "schools in the conference are experiencing declining participation"? Where are you sources on this?  I picked this up while reading thru the NLC thread over the past two seasons.  Spot conversations have occurred between NLC fan regarding declining participation at some schools.  

Concerning D1 recruiting - I have to be honest, how many D1 athletes have even played in the NLC since 2000? The only three D1 athletes I can think of from Warsaw would be Brad Seiss, Jake Rogers and Harrison Mevis (two of which are kickers). Thinking back to all the great teams and athletes this millinium from Concord, Plymouth, NorthWood and even Wawasee... how many went D1? My point is I do not feel like it's all of a sudden a loss in talent. Not like the NLC was ever a huge D1 recruiting hot bed in the first place like the Duneland, SAC or MIC.   I guess I have a problem seeing 8 team conferencs like the MIC or the HCC or the SAC send off 5 to 10 D1 players annually while the NLC Cannot even develop a single high level D1 player.  Its odd.  These are very nice communities with great community support.  Look at a school like Valpo.  They have produced 3 D1 POwer 5 linemean in the past few years.  If Valpo can do it, why not Warsaw, Plymouth, Goshen, etc?  

Concerning the NLC becoming irrelevent... again, I'm not sure where you're coming up with this statement. If anything, the addition of Mishawaka and growing success of Warsaw makes the conference MORE relevant. Programs like Concord, NorthWood and Plymouth regularly have successful seasons and make noise in the postseason. Adding Mishawaka increases that likelyhood of continuing and if schools like Warsaw and Northridge (sorry Goshen and Wawasee) can continue to build strong programs, I would say the NLC is as relevant as it has ever been.  I think the NLC is becoming irrelevant outside of its own imprint and limited sphere of influence.  The addition of Mishawaka is huge.  Perhaps it will push others to up their respective games.

Finally - no, the NLC has no interest in moving past 8 members at this time. Perhaps if the NIC were to completely see a siesmic shift due to South Bend schools consolidating or something MAYBE they would consider adding a few members, but I am pretty sure New Prairie was already turned away once and personally if there were 2 additional schools I'd like to see added, I would pick SB St Joe and Mishawaka Marian as potential additions.  Is Wawasee potentially in danger of being asked to leave due to chronic uncompetitiveness?  I believe many in the conference would like to see NP over Wawasee if given the choice.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 4/27/2020 at 3:10 PM, NLCTigerFan07 said:

While I do not get nearly as riled up as others with your posts... this one seems to hold little weight.

Concerning postseason success, I would point out that Concord, Goshen and Memorial were all in the same sectional since the move to 6 classes. So that leaves 1 potential 5A sectional champion from that group of 3 teams. Then you have Northridge, NorthWood, and Wawasee who typically have been included in the same sectional as well, and at times Plymouth was also included in the same sectional. So that again leaves 1 potential (maybe 2 depending where Plymouth ended up) 4A sectional champion from that group of 4 teams. That makes it pretty difficult to have postseason succes when all your conference mates have to also be beaten in order for one to be the champion.

Also - can you please provide statistical information confirming your statement of "schools in the conference are experiencing declining participation"? Where are you sources on this?

Concerning D1 recruiting - I have to be honest, how many D1 athletes have even played in the NLC since 2000? The only three D1 athletes I can think of from Warsaw would be Brad Seiss, Jake Rogers and Harrison Mevis (two of which are kickers). Thinking back to all the great teams and athletes this millinium from Concord, Plymouth, NorthWood and even Wawasee... how many went D1? My point is I do not feel like it's all of a sudden a loss in talent. Not like the NLC was ever a huge D1 recruiting hot bed in the first place like the Duneland, SAC or MIC.

Concerning the NLC becoming irrelevent... again, I'm not sure where you're coming up with this statement. If anything, the addition of Mishawaka and growing success of Warsaw makes the conference MORE relevant. Programs like Concord, NorthWood and Plymouth regularly have successful seasons and make noise in the postseason. Adding Mishawaka increases that likelyhood of continuing and if schools like Warsaw and Northridge (sorry Goshen and Wawasee) can continue to build strong programs, I would say the NLC is as relevant as it has ever been.

Finally - no, the NLC has no interest in moving past 8 members at this time. Perhaps if the NIC were to completely see a siesmic shift due to South Bend schools consolidating or something MAYBE they would consider adding a few members, but I am pretty sure New Prairie was already turned away once and personally if there were 2 additional schools I'd like to see added, I would pick SB St Joe and Mishawaka Marian as potential additions.

Jason Spriggs - Concord Class of 2011 / IU.......Now with Chicago Bears after 4 years with the Packers......

Edited by swordfish
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/27/2020 at 2:23 PM, Muda69 said:

And can be taught by activities other than tackle football.

 

Football is not for everyone . . . . if my daughter/son wants to play volleyball, run cross country, play golf play tennis, play soccer, so be it.

Good coaches there, as well, and life skills taught there, too!

 

Can't please everyone with a positive, basic comment.  That's pretty sad!

 

As always, the game is better

from_the_sidelines007

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/18/2020 at 11:39 AM, swordfish said:

Jason Spriggs - Concord Class of 2011 / IU.......Now with Chicago Bears after 4 years with the Packers......

I knew there were a few I probably missed... but that's my point. It's not like our beloved NLC has ALWAYS been some sort of D1 recruiting hot bed. DT made the comment that "From a talent standpoint, there is very little D1 recruiting activity around the conference.  Talent might be at an all time low" to which I countered with my response that, when has the NLC ever had THAT MUCH D1 recruiting activity?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I knew there were a few I probably missed... but that's my point. It's not like our beloved NLC has ALWAYS been some sort of D1 recruiting hot bed. DT made the comment that "From a talent standpoint, there is very little D1 recruiting activity around the conference.  Talent might be at an all time low" to which I countered with my response that, when has the NLC ever had THAT MUCH D1 recruiting activity?

Which goes back to my question?  Why doesn't the NLC develop D1 players at a similar rate as other areas of the state?   I have a theory.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/19/2020 at 1:57 PM, DT said:

Which goes back to my question?  Why doesn't the NLC develop D1 players at a similar rate as other areas of the state?   I have a theory.  

Because it is a conference made up of mostly 4A, rural-ish (Warsaw, Plymouth, Goshen, etc are not exactly Fort Wayne or The Region) schools with an average enrollment of 1,437 based on this file: https://ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/quick resources/Enrollments & Classifications/football schools 19-20.pdf

Here's some more numbers on the other large conferences in the northern part of the state, along with the two best conferences in the state:

MIC - 3,504
HCC - 2,860
DAC - 2,293
NIC North -1,812 (this includes a combined total for Elk Central/Memorial AND Marian and St Joe's low private school #s)
SAC - 1,530 (this includes Dwenger, Concorida and Luers private school #s. If you removed those, the average enrollment goes up to 1,858)

The conference that, in my opinion most resembles the NLC elsewhere in the state would be the Mid State conference. They have an average enrollement of 1,693. That group of schools for the most part resemble towns like Warsaw, Goshen, Mishawaka/Elkhart, however, I still believe their proximity to Indianapolis helps much like the SAC with Fort Wayne and DAC with The Region.

My theory - larger your enrollment - more D1 players walking the hallways. I have no desire to do a comparison myself, but if anyone would like to compare the number of D1 footballers from the NLC and Mid State since 2000, that would be interesting to see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Because it is a conference made up of mostly 4A, rural-ish (Warsaw, Plymouth, Goshen, etc are not exactly Fort Wayne or The Region) schools with an average enrollment of 1,437 based on this file: https://ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/quick resources/Enrollments & Classifications/football schools 19-20.pdf

Here's some more numbers on the other large conferences in the northern part of the state, along with the two best conferences in the state:

MIC - 3,504
HCC - 2,860
DAC - 2,293
NIC North -1,812 (this includes a combined total for Elk Central/Memorial AND Marian and St Joe's low private school #s)
SAC - 1,530 (this includes Dwenger, Concorida and Luers private school #s. If you removed those, the average enrollment goes up to 1,858)

The conference that, in my opinion most resembles the NLC elsewhere in the state would be the Mid State conference. They have an average enrollement of 1,693. That group of schools for the most part resemble towns like Warsaw, Goshen, Mishawaka/Elkhart, however, I still believe their proximity to Indianapolis helps much like the SAC with Fort Wayne and DAC with The Region.

My theory - larger your enrollment - more D1 players walking the hallways. I have no desire to do a comparison myself, but if anyone would like to compare the number of D1 footballers from the NLC and Mid State since 2000, that would be interesting to see.

Good theory.  I also went to a rural school. D1 players came around once or twice every 20 years or so, but that didn't stop us from having fun.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Because it is a conference made up of mostly 4A, rural-ish (Warsaw, Plymouth, Goshen, etc are not exactly Fort Wayne or The Region) schools with an average enrollment of 1,437 based on this file: https://ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/quick resources/Enrollments & Classifications/football schools 19-20.pdf

Here's some more numbers on the other large conferences in the northern part of the state, along with the two best conferences in the state:

MIC - 3,504
HCC - 2,860
DAC - 2,293
NIC North -1,812 (this includes a combined total for Elk Central/Memorial AND Marian and St Joe's low private school #s)
SAC - 1,530 (this includes Dwenger, Concorida and Luers private school #s. If you removed those, the average enrollment goes up to 1,858)

The conference that, in my opinion most resembles the NLC elsewhere in the state would be the Mid State conference. They have an average enrollement of 1,693. That group of schools for the most part resemble towns like Warsaw, Goshen, Mishawaka/Elkhart, however, I still believe their proximity to Indianapolis helps much like the SAC with Fort Wayne and DAC with The Region.

My theory - larger your enrollment - more D1 players walking the hallways. I have no desire to do a comparison myself, but if anyone would like to compare the number of D1 footballers from the NLC and Mid State since 2000, that would be interesting to see.

I think "the lake life" is also a factor.  The NLC sits in the best outdoor recreation area in the state .  All of its schools have close proximity to lakes which host fishing, hunting, skiing and other outdoor recreational pursuits.  I remember personally skipping out on lots of Babe Ruth and Youth League baseball games in favor of fishing and water skiing on Koontz Lake in Walkerton.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, DT said:

I think "the lake life" is also a factor.  The NLC sits in the best outdoor recreation area in the state .  All of its schools have close proximity to lakes which host fishing, hunting, skiing and other outdoor recreational pursuits.  I remember personally skipping out on lots of Babe Ruth and Youth League baseball games in favor of fishing and water skiing on Koontz Lake in Walkerton.  

Wow.  
 

Reporter:  “Hey, coach what was the limiting factor in why your team came up short tonight?  Missed tackles?  Failed 3rd down conversions?  Penalties?”

Coach:  “Nope, too many of our kids lived the “lake life” this summer instead of hitting the weight room.”

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Wow.  
 

Reporter:  “Hey, coach what was the limiting factor in why your team came up short tonight?  Missed tackles?  Failed 3rd down conversions?  Penalties?”

Coach:  “Nope, too many of our kids lived the “lake life” this summer instead of hitting the weight room.”

Its reality my friend.  Why do you think they call it "The Northern Lakes Conference?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, DT said:

Its reality my friend.  Why do you think they call it "The Northern Lakes Conference?"

So kids from the METROPOLITAN INTERSCHOLASTIC CONFERENCE must get tripped up because they are doing things in the big city?

Kids in the DUNELAND ATHLETIC CONFERENCE are getting held back because they are playing on the beach?

Don’t even ask about the POCKET ATHLETIC CONFERENCE...I don’t wanna know what those kids are doing...

 

 

Edited by Guest
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Temptation said:

So kids from the METROPOLITAN INTERSCHOLASTIC CONFERENCE must get tripped up because they are doing things in the big city?

Kids in the DUNELAND ATHLETIC CONFERENCE are getting held back because they are playing on the beach?

Don’t even ask about the POCKET ATHLETIC CONFERENCE...I don’t wanna know what those kids are doing...

 

 

You didnt grow up with the lake life like many of us northern Indiana kids did.  It was wonderful and the best times of our lives.  You dont understand.  I have no doubt that schools like Wawasee and Plymouth and Goshen and Warsaw "lose" potential athletes to the lake life.  

Edited by DT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, DT said:

You didnt grow up with the lake life like many of us northern Indiana kids did.  It was wonderful and the best times of our lives.  You dont understand.  I have no doubt that schools like Wawasee and Plymouth and Goshen and Warsaw "lose" potential athletes to the lake life.  

I could use a little “lake life” right now. I had two Canadian fishing trips planned for this Summer, and have had to cancel both, as the border won’t be open until at least June 21.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, DT said:

You didnt grow up with the lake life like many of us northern Indiana kids did.  It was wonderful and the best times of our lives.  You dont understand.  I have no doubt that schools like Wawasee and Plymouth and Goshen and Warsaw "lose" potential athletes to the lake life.  

Ah, the classic “you don’t get it” phrase.  A common play when you are throwing darts blindly and have nothing else to say.

There’s a pretty popular lake 20 miles from my home.

There are also:

Three 6A teams that finished in the top 10 in Sagarin that are within 20 miles of my home...

THIRTEEN programs in all who finished in Sagarin’s top 100 that are within 20 miles of my home...

You spew a lot of nonsense on here but this may actually be your worst take ever...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Bobref said:

I could use a little “lake life” right now. I had two Canadian fishing trips planned for this Summer, and have had to cancel both, as the border won’t be open until at least June 21.

My trip to Costa Rica from April was postponed, but to get a little of of the “sabor Latina” (Latin flavor for those of you  playing at home), I am going to Arizona next month.  I have heard that middle seats are not being assigned and that mask use is required.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, DT said:

I think "the lake life" is also a factor.  The NLC sits in the best outdoor recreation area in the state .  All of its schools have close proximity to lakes which host fishing, hunting, skiing and other outdoor recreational pursuits.  I remember personally skipping out on lots of Babe Ruth and Youth League baseball games in favor of fishing and water skiing on Koontz Lake in Walkerton.  

So because you skipped out on little league baseball games to head to the lake, that's why you didn't play baseball in high school or didn't reach your full potential as a baseball player? 😂

11 hours ago, DT said:

You didnt grow up with the lake life like many of us northern Indiana kids did.  It was wonderful and the best times of our lives.  You dont understand.  I have no doubt that schools like Wawasee and Plymouth and Goshen and Warsaw "lose" potential athletes to the lake life.  

This sentence I can get behind. There is nothing better than growing up on or around the lakes in the summer. However - I cannot think of a single teammate/classmate that I "lost" do to this lifestyle. Hell, most of our summer workouts for football were done by 8 or 9 am! PLENTY of time left in the day to hit up the lake.

If anything - the NLC is also situated in a part of the state dominated by farmland. I know for a fact we lost some guys do to this. Family had a farm and it depended on them working it all summer and into the fall. Heck, even a few guys would bail once deer hunting season began. They would rather be up in a tree than out at practice.

6 hours ago, Bobref said:

I could use a little “lake life” right now. I had two Canadian fishing trips planned for this Summer, and have had to cancel both, as the border won’t be open until at least June 21.

Stick inside the boarders and head up to Minnesota! Making a trip up there near the boarder in 4 weeks.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Bobref said:

I could use a little “lake life” right now. I had two Canadian fishing trips planned for this Summer, and have had to cancel both, as the border won’t be open until at least June 21.

Have an invite to Eagle Lake in NW Ontario in July.  Better get my passport .  LOL

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...