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My Suggestion to IHSAA

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6 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I'm thinking the more universities/colleges announce they will open up in Indiana, the high schools will too, setting up some form of HS football. Maybe not full season,, may start a week or two later??

Hopefully!

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9 hours ago, Gipper said:

Hopefully!

I was thinking what a monumental undertaking it is to try and get this right, when it’s absolutely without precedent. Those people at the IHSAA are really earning their pay these days. They not only have to decide when to “restart,” but also how to deal with situations that arise after the restart.

  1. What do you do if a player has symptoms?
  2. What do you do if a player has been exposed?
  3. What do you do if a player tests positive?
  4. Same questions for a coach, trainer, manager, etc.?
  5. Same questions for a family member living in the same household as a player, coach, trainer, etc.?
  6. Who do you test, and when? Do you require testing at all? Using what criteria?
  7. What do you do with a player, coach, etc., who tests positive for antibodies, i.e., has already been infected and has recovered?
  8. What sort of protocols have to be in place in the locker room, weight room, practice facility, etc.?

We haven’t even addressed the issues of fans and games. These occurred to me right off the top of my head. I’m sure that the people working on this will have to answer these questions and many, many more. I don’t envy them.

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20 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I was thinking what a monumental undertaking it is to try and get this right, when it’s absolutely without precedent. Those people at the IHSAA are really earning their pay these days. They not only have to decide when to “restart,” but also how to deal with situations that arise after the restart.

  1. What do you do if a player has symptoms?
  2. What do you do if a player has been exposed?
  3. What do you do if a player tests positive?
  4. Same questions for a coach, trainer, manager, etc.?
  5. Same questions for a family member living in the same household as a player, coach, trainer, etc.?
  6. Who do you test, and when? Do you require testing at all? Using what criteria?
  7. What do you do with a player, coach, etc., who tests positive for antibodies, i.e., has already been infected and has recovered?
  8. What sort of protocols have to be in place in the locker room, weight room, practice facility, etc.?

We haven’t even addressed the issues of fans and games. These occurred to me right off the top of my head. I’m sure that the people working on this will have to answer these questions and many, many more. I don’t envy them.

There are many variables.  Kudos to you for bringing them to the surface.

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Now I know why MLB has a 67-page document for return to play. 

2 hours ago, Bobref said:

I was thinking what a monumental undertaking it is to try and get this right, when it’s absolutely without precedent. Those people at the IHSAA are really earning their pay these days. They not only have to decide when to “restart,” but also how to deal with situations that arise after the restart.

  1. What do you do if a player has symptoms?
  2. What do you do if a player has been exposed?
  3. What do you do if a player tests positive?
  4. Same questions for a coach, trainer, manager, etc.?
  5. Same questions for a family member living in the same household as a player, coach, trainer, etc.?
  6. Who do you test, and when? Do you require testing at all? Using what criteria?
  7. What do you do with a player, coach, etc., who tests positive for antibodies, i.e., has already been infected and has recovered?
  8. What sort of protocols have to be in place in the locker room, weight room, practice facility, etc.?

We haven’t even addressed the issues of fans and games. These occurred to me right off the top of my head. I’m sure that the people working on this will have to answer these questions and many, many more. I don’t envy them.

 

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3 hours ago, Bobref said:

I was thinking what a monumental undertaking it is to try and get this right, when it’s absolutely without precedent. Those people at the IHSAA are really earning their pay these days. They not only have to decide when to “restart,” but also how to deal with situations that arise after the restart.

  1. What do you do if a player has symptoms?
  2. What do you do if a player has been exposed?
  3. What do you do if a player tests positive?
  4. Same questions for a coach, trainer, manager, etc.?
  5. Same questions for a family member living in the same household as a player, coach, trainer, etc.?
  6. Who do you test, and when? Do you require testing at all? Using what criteria?
  7. What do you do with a player, coach, etc., who tests positive for antibodies, i.e., has already been infected and has recovered?
  8. What sort of protocols have to be in place in the locker room, weight room, practice facility, etc.?

We haven’t even addressed the issues of fans and games. These occurred to me right off the top of my head. I’m sure that the people working on this will have to answer these questions and many, many more. I don’t envy them.

Excellent points. There is also the "liability" factor. Maybe there needs to be some form of written or legal document signed by each player that they know and understand possible risks and it is their choice to play and the school, school district and opposing team/district can not be held liable?? 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Bobref said:

I was thinking what a monumental undertaking it is to try and get this right, when it’s absolutely without precedent. Those people at the IHSAA are really earning their pay these days. They not only have to decide when to “restart,” but also how to deal with situations that arise after the restart.

  1. What do you do if a player has symptoms?
  2. What do you do if a player has been exposed?
  3. What do you do if a player tests positive?
  4. Same questions for a coach, trainer, manager, etc.?
  5. Same questions for a family member living in the same household as a player, coach, trainer, etc.?
  6. Who do you test, and when? Do you require testing at all? Using what criteria?
  7. What do you do with a player, coach, etc., who tests positive for antibodies, i.e., has already been infected and has recovered?
  8. What sort of protocols have to be in place in the locker room, weight room, practice facility, etc.?

We haven’t even addressed the issues of fans and games. These occurred to me right off the top of my head. I’m sure that the people working on this will have to answer these questions and many, many more. I don’t envy them.

I think the bigger issue is this: If schools only let students go back to school 2-3 days a week, how can a Superintendent justify going to practice 5 days a week?

Here's an even better question: What about busing? No way they allow kids, or very many, to ride buses.  Transportation is going to be a nightmare. 

The more questions you ask, the more questions that appear.  

Edited by EricFeller
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13 minutes ago, EricFeller said:

I think the bigger issue is this: If schools only let students go back to school 2-3 days a week, how can a Superintendent justify going to practice 5 days a week?

Here's an even better question: What about busing? No way they allow kids, or very many, to ride buses.  Transportation is going to be a nightmare. 

The more questions you ask, the more questions that appear.  

My daughter, and 8th grader to be, will not be bussed this coming school year.

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15 minutes ago, EricFeller said:

I think the bigger issue is this: If schools only let students go back to school 2-3 days a week, how can a Superintendent justify going to practice 5 days a week?

Here's an even better question: What about busing? No way they allow kids, or very many, to ride buses.  Transportation is going to be a nightmare. 

The more questions you ask, the more questions that appear.  

Unfortunately, a good percentage of parents can not take kids to school and do need that transportation, so yes, that is a big one to answer. 

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1 hour ago, psaboy said:

Excellent points. There is also the "liability" factor. Maybe there needs to be some form of written or legal document signed by each player that they know and understand possible risks and it is their choice to play and the school, school district and opposing team/district can not be held liable?? 

Athletes and their parents already sign a very comprehensive participation waiver.

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14 hours ago, psaboy said:

I'm thinking the more universities/colleges announce they will open up in Indiana, the high schools will too, setting up some form of HS football. Maybe not full season,, may start a week or two later??

There are a few differences that make this less likely of a direct tie-in.

Universities that are potentially planning to return to the campus, like Purdue, at the start of the fall are also wrestling with many different items that high schools and elementary schools won't have the ability to do.  For example, one discussion that happened in a  meeting that I was in on was a discussion of possibly expanding the class offering to be able to split class sizes given room constraints.  They discussed that might include adding sections to night schedules and possibly even Saturdays.  I suspect that most high schools/elementary schools won't have that option.  Also, a big part of the concern that I've heard expressed is how do you protect more vulnerable populations from less populations when both are needed to do face-to-face classes.  In a university setting, some of that is already the nature of the beast.  If a faculty member teaches two courses in a week for 3 credits each, then an older faculty member has a maximum of six weekly contact hours from classroom instruction for exposure.  If you are a high school teacher that teaches five courses a day for an hour per class, you have 25 hours of direct weekly exposure.  Even if you cut classes in half, the high school teacher has a minimum of twice the potential exposure of a university faculty member.  While universities and high schools are both in the education field, the logistics and situations have a large enough number of differences that make it less of a likelihood that if one does it others will follow.

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The federation sent out guidelines today that were forwarded to AD’s by Bobby Cox. . I don’t see how teams can meet the social distancing guidelines. 😞

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32 minutes ago, sls said:

The federation sent out guidelines today that were forwarded to AD’s by Bobby Cox. . I don’t see how teams can meet the social distancing guidelines. 😞

What does it say???   Don't leave us hangin'

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the craziest thing about considering how we will be re-opening schools and such., ........going back to sports is.....................on March 12th the US had a total of 40 deaths. On March 13th we closed schools and ran out of the schools like it was the end of the world. We cancelled spring sports and graduations. At that time IN had just 12 cases. Now we are talking about going back to normal as the US has hit 92,000+ deaths and the state of Indiana has 1678 deaths and 28705 cases. 

 

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As we’re worrying about playing the game, which is important, shouldn’t we also be concerned with how literacy rates of all students will be affected?

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11 hours ago, sls said:

Here is a cliff notes version for those that don't want to read the whole thing. Remember, these are just guidelines and ideas for the states to abide.

Preliminary Questions to ask state associations

They start off asking 4 preliminary questions to state associations. The jist of those 4 questions are essentially: Are you willing to do sports if Public schools are closed?  Will the state itself host a tournament if there is an outbreak in your state?  Will your state only allow "lower risk" or "moderate risk" sports as suggested by the article? (Will get to this later.)

Points of Emphasis

Strongly recommend following CDC guidelines with face cloth coverings (doesn't have to be medical grade.) in Phases 1 and 2 of their plan (Will address below). Swimming, distance running are excluded from this.

Schools must be prepared for periodic school closures.

Scheduling contests with less travel should be considered.

"Vulnerable individuals" are those defined as 65 and older and others with underlying health conditions.(Will address later)

Phases of Reopening (Understand, each state will vary but this is what they recommend)

Phase 1

Pre Workout Screen: 

All coaches/players should be screened for symptoms prior to workout. Responses to be recorded.

"Vulnerable individuals" should not participate in Phase 1

Limitations on Gatherings:

No more than 10 people at a time (inside or outside)

No Locker room use. 

Workouts should be conducted of pods of up to 10, but the same 5-10 groups.  Smaller pods for weight training (Doesn't give a number)

Minimum distance of at least 6 feet at ALL times. 

Facilities Cleaning

Pretty much your standard stuff. Sanitize each and everything that was used. Students encouraged to shower immediately upon returning home.

Physical Activity and Athletic Equipment

No sharing of towels or equipment.

Resistance training is emphasized as body weight and sub maximal lifts. 

Examples: Football players shall not do anything that requires the passing or handing off of football. No sharing of tackling dummies, etc.

Hydration:

Players are to bring their own water bottles. Nothing is shared 

Phase 2

Pre Workout Screen: 

"Vulnerable individuals" should still not oversee or participate in Phase 2

Limitations on Gatherings:

No more than 10 people INSIDE.  Up to 50 allowed OUTSIDE.

If locker rooms used, social distance of 6 feet required. 

Workouts should be conducted of pods of up to 10, but the same 5-10 groups.  Smaller pods for weight training (Doesn't give a number) 

Minimum distance of at least 6 feet at ALL times. 

Facilities Cleaning

Pretty much your standard stuff. Sanitize each and everything that was used. Students encouraged to shower immediately upon returning home.

Physical Activity and Athletic Equipment

"LOWER RISK" practices and competition may resume. (Track, swimming, golf, CC, etc)

"MODERATE RISK" Basketball, volleyball, baseball, softball, soccer, etc (Modified practices may begin)

"HIGH RISK"Wrestling/Football: Nothing stated

Hydration:

Players are to bring their own water bottles. Nothing is shared 

 

Phase 3

Pre Workout Screen: 

All coaches/players should be screened for symptoms prior to workout. Responses to be recorded.

"Vulnerable individuals" can begin to participate but with social distancing guidelines in place. 

Limitations on Gatherings:

Gatherings of UP TO 50 people allowed INSIDE and OUT. 

 

Facilities Cleaning

Pretty much your standard stuff. Sanitize each and everything that was used. Students encouraged to shower immediately upon returning home.

Physical Activity and Athletic Equipment

"MODERATE RISK" sports and competition may resume.

"modified" practices for "HIGH RISK" sports can begin (Use epidemiology data to determine when your state may resume practice)

 

Tiers of People Allowed into Events:

Tier 1 (Essential personnel): Athletes, officials, coaches, event staff, medical staff, security

Tier 2 (Media)

Tier 3: Fans, vendors

 

Thought I'd copy and paste this because it's important for football.  

Quote

Return to Physical Activity Current pre-season conditioning and acclimatization models assume that athletes have deconditioned over the summer months. The current pandemic may result in students being deconditioned for four to five months. The NFHS is currently involved with a number of other organizations in developing consensus guidelines for fall sports practices. These guidelines will be sent to state associations immediately after they are finalized and approved by all involved organizations.

 

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I have serious doubts about this upcoming season. It just doesn’t look good for returning to play.

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Keep in mind stage 3 ends June 13th for Indiana:

 

Stage 4

Possible start dates: June 14

What's new:

  • Face coverings: Now optional
  • Social gatherings: Up to 250 people
  • State government buildings: Access restrictions will be lifted
  • Professional office buildings: Employees may resume work at full capacity
  • Retail stores and malls: Open at full capacity with social distancing guidelines in place
  • Dining room service: May open at 75% capacity
  • Bar seating in restaurants: May open at 50% capacity
  • Bars and nightclubs: May open at 50% capacity adhering to social distancing guidelines
  • Cultural, entertainment and tourism businesses: May open at 50% capacity. This includes museums, zoos, bowling alleys and aquariums.
  • Recreational sports leagues and tournaments: May resume
  • Large venues: May open with social gatherings guidelines
  • Amusement parks and water parks: Facilities may open at 50% capacity; reservations will be required to limit the number of customers at any one time.
  • Most vulnerable population: Hoosiers 65 and over and those with high-risk health conditions should follow social distancing guidelines and remain cautious. 

Stage 5

Possible start dates: July 4

What's new:

  • Retail stores and malls: May operate at full capacity
  • Restaurants, bars, and nightclubs: May operate at full capacity
  • Personal services: May open at full capacity
  • Gyms and fitness facilities: No restrictions
  • Large events: Conventions, sports events, fairs, festivals, the state fair and similar events may resume.
  • Amusement parks, water parks: Restrictions are lifted. Social distancing guidelines should be maintained.
  • Most vulnerable population: Hoosiers 65 and over and those with high-risk health conditions should follow social distancing guidelines and remain cautious. 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Keep in mind stage 3 ends June 13th for Indiana:

From my understanding, the phases proposed by the NFHS is a separate one for sports.  I don't think it has anything to do with Indiana's plan.

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54 minutes ago, EricFeller said:

From my understanding, the phases proposed by the NFHS is a separate one for sports.  I don't think it has anything to do with Indiana's plan.

"The recommendations presented in this document are intended as ideas for state associations to consider with their respective SMACs and other stakeholders in designing return-to-activity guidelines that will be in accordance with state or local restrictions. Please note that the phases of “opening up” outlined below are based upon the White House document released in April 2020. Consult your state and local health departments to review if they are using a similar approach, or how the phases in this document correspond to your state or local governments nomenclature."

So based on this quote above the NFHS document somewhat follows the National and Indiana guidelines for the first three phases.  To me, it clearly is not a document intended for guidance all the way to August.

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38 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

"The recommendations presented in this document are intended as ideas for state associations to consider with their respective SMACs and other stakeholders in designing return-to-activity guidelines that will be in accordance with state or local restrictions. Please note that the phases of “opening up” outlined below are based upon the White House document released in April 2020. Consult your state and local health departments to review if they are using a similar approach, or how the phases in this document correspond to your state or local governments nomenclature."

So based on this quote above the NFHS document somewhat follows the National and Indiana guidelines for the first three phases.  To me, it clearly is not a document intended for guidance all the way to August.

Can we get Coach Hart and Coach Wilkerson to schedule a 7-on-7 July 5th?  But here's the catch... it will take place in the pool at Spashin' Safari/Holiday World and be within ISDH guidelines. 

I hope I am wrong on this, but will we see a death of an asthmatic athlete who was forced to wear a cloth mask during practice?   

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1 minute ago, oldtimeqb said:

Can we get Coach Hart and Coach Wilkerson to schedule a 7-on-7 July 5th?  But here's the catch... it will take place in the pool at Spashin' Safari/Holiday World and be within ISDH guidelines. 

I hope I am wrong on this, but will we see a death of an asthmatic athlete who was forced to wear a cloth mask during practice?   

LOL...sounds almost the same as the PAC golf tournament being at Christmas Lake (crazy but true).  In addition, Coach Hart is going to observe moratorium.  I think 7 on 7 in the wave pool would be awesome!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

"The recommendations presented in this document are intended as ideas for state associations to consider with their respective SMACs and other stakeholders in designing return-to-activity guidelines that will be in accordance with state or local restrictions. Please note that the phases of “opening up” outlined below are based upon the White House document released in April 2020. Consult your state and local health departments to review if they are using a similar approach, or how the phases in this document correspond to your state or local governments nomenclature."

So based on this quote above the NFHS document somewhat follows the National and Indiana guidelines for the first three phases.  To me, it clearly is not a document intended for guidance all the way to August.

This following is the first paragraph in the document that was just created last week.  It specifically says "Opening up" of high school athletics across the United States.  I take that as meaning once we open up July 1st, will start with Phase 1. 

Quote

 

The COVID-19 pandemic presents state high school associations with a myriad of challenges. The NFHS Sports Medicine Advisory Committee (SMAC) offers this document as guidance on how state associations can consider approaching the many components of “opening up” high school athletics and activities across theUnited States.

 

 

Edited by EricFeller

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1 hour ago, Titan32 said:

LOL...sounds almost the same as the PAC golf tournament being at Christmas Lake (crazy but true).  In addition, Coach Hart is going to observe moratorium.  I think 7 on 7 in the wave pool would be awesome!

They ought to rename it "Petri Dish Safari" for the 2020 season.... 

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