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My Suggestion to IHSAA

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21 minutes ago, cbc34 said:

I didn’t say isolate a group of people but I’m sure there are less restrictive things we  can do to ensure their safety. We live in an amazing time. You don’t have to go into a grocery store. You can have it delivered. You can pull up and have them loaded. I don’t agree that things have changed forever. People have to be willing to accept some risk. Just like with most things in life. 

That’s what everyone says: “I’m sure there are ... things we can do.” As I said, the devil is in the details. Protecting the vulnerable, while allowing the less vulnerable to resume normality, is not a plan. It’s a goal. Now it’s time to come up with a plan to achieve that goal. So far, all I’ve heard is a lot of people pounding the table to get back to “normal.” I want to hear how we get there. How we deal with the elderly living in facilities. How we deal with people in high rise building elevators, in doctor’s offices, hospitals, clinics, etc,, in government offices and courthouses, on airplanes, etc. 

We all want to get “back.” What we disagree on is what we need to do going forward.

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55 minutes ago, cbc34 said:

I didn’t say isolate a group of people but I’m sure there are less restrictive things we  can do to ensure their safety. We live in an amazing time. You don’t have to go into a grocery store. You can have it delivered. You can pull up and have them loaded. I don’t agree that things have changed forever. People have to be willing to accept some risk. Just like with most things in life. 

It's called a strawman argument.  You take someone's opinion and rephrase it in a way that sounds similar, but not exactly what they said.  Then you completely take it apart.  It's pretty common in political debate and pervasive on social media.   

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This is an argument that has no end.......both sides have valid points ......its true we all want to get back to normal.......the problem however, in my opinion, is that since March 13th here in Indiana , as well as the United States , there has been no clear cut plans. Everyone wants to make recommendations, but no details ever emerge. Until we have a clear plan, one people can stand by and our leaders be accountable for, the uncertainty of the times will remain. 

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I am curious how basketball is not considered a higher risk sport in terms of likelihood of transmission. Seems to be a lot of close contact in that sport. There is the constant defensive pressure where two guys are in each other’s face. For every shot you have several players converging making physical contact trying to gather the rebound. Not saying football shouldn’t be in the higher risk category, but in my eyes basketball seems to be just as risky. 

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6 hours ago, cbc34 said:

You are assuming a vaccine ever comes and also assuming it is effective. Sorry I refuse to put all of my faith and hope in big pharma and the politicians whose pockets are being lined by them.

These measures were extreme at the beginning but now that we know what we are up against, it’s time to open back up fully, without restrictions. We can protect take measures to protect the elderly. Everyone else is at such small risk including high schools student athletes who have basically at no risk of fatality, that these restrictions are extreme and overreaching. 

I completely agree with you. But I'm also aware of how this is different than any previous virus. People who say there is only a 0.27% mortality rate don't know what that means in terms of actual numbers if it spreads like it could. But I'm on the side of opening things up (slowly at first) and educating people on safety measures and letting them make decisions based on that information just like everything else we do both for us and others. The experts who need to know how this works and how it affects people know a lot more now than they did in February even if it isn't everything. Things have been done to improve the PPE and ventilator situations and we've proven we can built supplemental facilities quickly. If more permanent facilities need to be built then so be it. We have to move forward. If it continues to be a major issue there will be a huge focus on a vaccine. Staying home most of the time is no way to live.

5 hours ago, dazed and confused said:

im confused.... wouldn't you use the 9k figure against the 1,675 figure ?  not the 1,800 reported so fer....

The first number (1800) is to compare what the current death numbers could have been assuming a 50% infection spread and the same current mortality rate. The 1675 number for comparison is for the FLU with half the people vaccinated and a lower mortality rate.

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19 hours ago, JustRules said:

I completely agree with you. But I'm also aware of how this is different than any previous virus. People who say there is only a 0.27% mortality rate don't know what that means in terms of actual numbers if it spreads like it could. But I'm on the side of opening things up (slowly at first) and educating people on safety measures and letting them make decisions based on that information just like everything else we do both for us and others. The experts who need to know how this works and how it affects people know a lot more now than they did in February even if it isn't everything. Things have been done to improve the PPE and ventilator situations and we've proven we can built supplemental facilities quickly. If more permanent facilities need to be built then so be it. We have to move forward. If it continues to be a major issue there will be a huge focus on a vaccine. Staying home most of the time is no way to live.

The first number (1800) is to compare what the current death numbers could have been assuming a 50% infection spread and the same current mortality rate. The 1675 number for comparison is for the FLU with half the people vaccinated and a lower mortality rate.

but you say estimated flu death rate is .001 but you use 0.1 in your senario. Thats a thousand times different.... confused as to why ? 

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22 minutes ago, dazed and confused said:

but you say estimated flu death rate is .001 but you use 0.1 in your senario. Thats a thousand times different.... confused as to why ? 

whoops.....100 times....for some reason cannot edit

 

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Nobody gonna bring up Fauci’s latest comments about the hazardous effects of NOT moving forward with the opening of the economy?  
 

And before Ultimate Warrior says anything, use your google machine. 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/24/2020 at 12:56 PM, Spock said:

I am curious how basketball is not considered a higher risk sport in terms of likelihood of transmission. Seems to be a lot of close contact in that sport. There is the constant defensive pressure where two guys are in each other’s face. For every shot you have several players converging making physical contact trying to gather the rebound. Not saying football shouldn’t be in the higher risk category, but in my eyes basketball seems to be just as risky. 

I had the exact same question for your reason and ALSO because it's indoors. I could also make an argument that tennis should be in "low risk" as well.  

Edited by EricFeller

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I feel like we all want a plan we can support and agree on.  The only problem with that is, we all have different opinions on what is the right way to get back to a "new" normal.  That is being an American, living in the United States, where it is our right to express our opinion and vote for people who think like we do.  But this gets into politics and that not an appropriate topic here.

I really want to see Football at all levels this fall.  But as of today, it appears very difficult seeing that happen.  But, if things continue on the current plan of the Governor, we could see all sports back in business by July or August.  That is, if the State Education Director also follows the current plan of the Governor.  Now, the details of how all this happens, those are to be determined. The situation we are living in today will be changed again tomorrow, or next week, or two weeks from now.  New developments are happening each and every day and we are just reacting.  I think what we all want is to know what is going to happen in the future, so we can plan for it.  And I don't know anyone who can predict the future.

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27 minutes ago, Sports Fan said:

I feel like we all want a plan we can support and agree on.  The only problem with that is, we all have different opinions on what is the right way to get back to a "new" normal.  That is being an American, living in the United States, where it is our right to express our opinion and vote for people who think like we do.  But this gets into politics and that not an appropriate topic here.

I really want to see Football at all levels this fall.  But as of today, it appears very difficult seeing that happen.  But, if things continue on the current plan of the Governor, we could see all sports back in business by July or August.  That is, if the State Education Director also follows the current plan of the Governor.  Now, the details of how all this happens, those are to be determined. The situation we are living in today will be changed again tomorrow, or next week, or two weeks from now.  New developments are happening each and every day and we are just reacting.  I think what we all want is to know what is going to happen in the future, so we can plan for it.  And I don't know anyone who can predict the future.

Well said.  

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Cases of child inflammatory syndrome possibly linked to coronavirus grow in Indiana, IU Health says

Posted: May 22, 2020 / 06:05 AM EDT / Updated: May 22, 2020 / 07:59 AM EDT

 

Editor’s note: The headline was updated to reflect that the inflammatory syndrome is possibly linked to the coronavirus.

INDIANAPOLIS — We now know the number of children with multisystem inflammatory syndrome is growing in Indiana. That illness may be linked to COVID-19.

The state health department confirmed one case earlier this week, but IU Health now confirms there are multiple cases.

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2 hours ago, cw13 said:

Cases of child inflammatory syndrome possibly linked to coronavirus grow in Indiana, IU Health says

Posted: May 22, 2020 / 06:05 AM EDT / Updated: May 22, 2020 / 07:59 AM EDT

 

Editor’s note: The headline was updated to reflect that the inflammatory syndrome is possibly linked to the coronavirus.

INDIANAPOLIS — We now know the number of children with multisystem inflammatory syndrome is growing in Indiana. That illness may be linked to COVID-19.

The state health department confirmed one case earlier this week, but IU Health now confirms there are multiple cases.

Why we need to be careful.  I want the football season as much as the next guy, but there are so many variables out there...

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, cw13 said:

Cases of child inflammatory syndrome possibly linked to coronavirus grow in Indiana, IU Health says

Posted: May 22, 2020 / 06:05 AM EDT / Updated: May 22, 2020 / 07:59 AM EDT

 

Editor’s note: The headline was updated to reflect that the inflammatory syndrome is possibly linked to the coronavirus.

INDIANAPOLIS — We now know the number of children with multisystem inflammatory syndrome is growing in Indiana. That illness may be linked to COVID-19.

The state health department confirmed one case earlier this week, but IU Health now confirms there are multiple cases.

Read a report last night, that gun shot victims (forgot where/will check for link) were being included with "corona virus" deaths.

Edited by DannEllenwood
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On 5/25/2020 at 8:47 AM, dazed and confused said:

but you say estimated flu death rate is .001 but you use 0.1 in your senario. Thats a thousand times different.... confused as to why ? 

As a number 0.1% is equal to 0.001. If you win 6 of 10 games the ratio is .60 (6/10 = 0.60) but you won 60% of your game. The estimated mortality rate of influenza is 0.1% or 0.001. The estimated mortality rate of COVID is 0.27% or 0.0027. I assume you knew the difference, but wanted to clarify just in case.

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6 hours ago, JustRules said:

As a number 0.1% is equal to 0.001. If you win 6 of 10 games the ratio is .60 (6/10 = 0.60) but you won 60% of your game. The estimated mortality rate of influenza is 0.1% or 0.001. The estimated mortality rate of COVID is 0.27% or 0.0027. I assume you knew the difference, but wanted to clarify just in case.

I'm not a numbers wiz, just to put that out there, but I'm seeing all kinds of botched numbers everywhere...  The thing that isn't often pointed out is that the flu deaths are counted in one count, but the illnesses/deaths don't all come from the same virus.  So this COVID-19 (is is still one???) is blowing any one flu out of the water in its short existence.   

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13 hours ago, Robert said:

I'm not a numbers wiz, just to put that out there, but I'm seeing all kinds of botched numbers everywhere...  The thing that isn't often pointed out is that the flu deaths are counted in one count, but the illnesses/deaths don't all come from the same virus.  So this COVID-19 (is is still one???) is blowing any one flu out of the water in its short existence.   

Correct, but we have done a terrible job at educating people with truth. TRUTH is that kids have a better chance of dying in a car crash. TRUTH is that this is not as deadly as once expected. There are many more.. the largest one majority of deaths has come from nursing homes. Some states at near 60 percent. We need to protect those people and all elderly. For those of you saying that is not possible, how is it possible in your mind to not be able to lockdown 15 percent of our population, but lockdown everyone? We have the numbers.. PROTECT THE POPULATION THAT IS DYING FROM THIS.

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5 minutes ago, Raven67 said:

Correct, but we have done a terrible job at educating people with truth. TRUTH is that kids have a better chance of dying in a car crash. TRUTH is that this is not as deadly as once expected. There are many more.. the largest one majority of deaths has come from nursing homes. Some states at near 60 percent. We need to protect those people and all elderly. For those of you saying that is not possible, how is it possible in your mind to not be able to lockdown 15 percent of our population, but lockdown everyone? We have the numbers.. PROTECT THE POPULATION THAT IS DYING FROM THIS.

And just how do you protect the vulnerable population while essentially allowing the virus free rein in the population at large? I asked in an earlier post that began this thread:   
You’re going to essentially cut a sizable segment of the population off from anyone else. You do realize that 1 in 7 Americans is over 65? Add to that the other vulnerable people, like poorly-controlled diabetics, those with auto-immune diseases, the immune-suppressed, those receiving chemotherapy (650,000 every year), and you’re talking well over 15% of the population, i.e., more than 50 million people. I would like to hear someone explain the “protective measures” for these 50 million people that will allow the other 275 million to just go about their business as if nothing had ever happened. Maybe we should just relocate all these people to a single geographic area where we can more easily protect them? You know, like concentration camps, but with internet and cable TV.“

Still waiting for an answer.

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  • STUDENTS BARELY AS RISK OF DYING: "The most salient discovery the world has made during these terrible two months is that COVID-19 is a very dangerous disease, specifically for the elderly and the infirm, particularly those with diabetes, hypertension, other cardiovascular illnesses or the obesity that so frequently leads to these disorders. ... The companion discovery is that this bug, so risky in one segment of the population, poses a near-zero risk to young people. Among COVID-19 deaths, 99.9 percent have occurred outside the 15-to-24 age group; the survival rate in the 20-to-29 age bracket is 99.99 percent. Even assuming the United States eventually reaches 150,000 total fatalities, COVID-19 as a risk to the young will rank way below accidents, cancer, heart disease and suicide. In fact, it won’t even make the top 10.'
  • STUDENTS WANT TO BE THERE: "Forty-five thousand young people — the biggest student population we’ve ever had — are telling us they want to be here this fall. To tell them, 'Sorry, we are too incompetent or too fearful to figure out how to protect your elders, so you have to disrupt your education,' would be a gross disservice to them and a default of our responsibility."
  • THINNING OUT CAMPUS GATHERINGS: "We will make our campus less dense in multiple ways. At least one-third of our staff will be required to work remotely. Our technologists have applied what they’ve learned about social distancing to redesign 700 classrooms and labs, and 9,500 dormitory rooms, all of which will be reconfigured with lower occupancy limits. All large-enrollment courses will be offered online as well as in person, to accommodate those who cannot or choose not to come to campus, and to further reduce in-class numbers.''
  • TRUSTING STUDENTS TO MAKE IT WORK: "On arrival in August, each Boilermaker will receive a kit including face masks and a thermometer for daily temperature-taking as well as the 'Protect Purdue Pledge' asking for a commitment to at least a semester of inconvenience, not primarily for the student’s own protection but for the safety of those who teach and otherwise serve them. I will urge students to demonstrate their altruism by complying, but also challenge them to refute the cynics who say that today’s young people are too selfish or self-indulgent to help us make this work.''
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2 hours ago, Bobref said:

And just how do you protect the vulnerable population while essentially allowing the virus free rein in the population at large? I asked in an earlier post that began this thread:   
You’re going to essentially cut a sizable segment of the population off from anyone else. You do realize that 1 in 7 Americans is over 65? Add to that the other vulnerable people, like poorly-controlled diabetics, those with auto-immune diseases, the immune-suppressed, those receiving chemotherapy (650,000 every year), and you’re talking well over 15% of the population, i.e., more than 50 million people. I would like to hear someone explain the “protective measures” for these 50 million people that will allow the other 275 million to just go about their business as if nothing had ever happened. Maybe we should just relocate all these people to a single geographic area where we can more easily protect them? You know, like concentration camps, but with internet and cable TV.“

Still waiting for an answer.

If you dont think that we can have protective measures for 50 million people, then you obviously cant think we can protect the whole population correct? What you are asking is not a question with a right or wrong answer. You are looking for a debate, and I would love to give it to you. If this "lockdown" as you call it has done anything it has given us a lot of infrastructure for being secluded. You can now easily order all the necessities in your life and have them come to your doorstep. PPE is not in shortage anymore, so if you do have to go out as a person who is "at risk", you should be able to have a N95 mask and whatever else you need. Its honestly pretty simple. You are acting like we were ever truly locked down. Maybe you had a job that allowed you to stay home, but a lot of people did not, myself included. The FAST FOOD restaurant workers were even deemed "essential". The virus has been running its course, pretty full speed ahead. Nursing homes where I am at were overrun, some had a 100% infection rate, but social distancing has been declared successful. I call BS. Social distancing hasnt worked at all. over HALF of New Yorks hospitalizations were people who stayed home. We have done little to slow this down at all that has been successful, but still our numbers drop. Georgia has been open for over a month with no spike in numbers, proving that this has been running at full speed regardless of "lockdown" measures. Cases haven been rising at the same rate as numbers tested. Indiana has consistently been at 15-20 percent positive no matter how many people are tested. People are not dropping dead everywhere over this, especailly if you are under 60. 47% OF INDIANAS DEATHS HAVE COME FROM PEOPLE THAT WERE IN A NURSING HOME (876 PEOPLE)!!!!  Only 9.6% of Indianas deaths (177 people) have been people under 60. Only 4% have been under 50 (74). And only 2% under 40 (37). AND most of those deaths in the younger age groups have come from people with serious underlying conditions. We have the data, protect those at risk. The numbers arent lying. I dont understand why you think this is so much harder than trying to shut everyone down? So, it is that simple. If you are at risk, you continue to be able to be on unemployment. Teachers over 60..not this year. Serious health issue?.....not going back to work... keep staying in and do exactly what you are doing now. Stay vigilant with PPE and staying distanced. WHATS YOUR END GAME WHEN A VACCINE DOESNT WORK?

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2 hours ago, Raven67 said:

Correct, but we have done a terrible job at educating people with truth. TRUTH is that kids have a better chance of dying in a car crash. TRUTH is that this is not as deadly as once expected. There are many more.. the largest one majority of deaths has come from nursing homes. Some states at near 60 percent. We need to protect those people and all elderly. For those of you saying that is not possible, how is it possible in your mind to not be able to lockdown 15 percent of our population, but lockdown everyone? We have the numbers.. PROTECT THE POPULATION THAT IS DYING FROM THIS.

Kids have a better chance of dying in a car crash up to today, from a virus that is not very old.  How old are cars and car crashes? I know teachers who have diabetes, asthma, obesity, in their 60s, hypertension...some with all of the above.  You're telling them to go back to work?

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24 minutes ago, Robert said:

Kids have a better chance of dying in a car crash up to today, from a virus that is not very old.  How old are cars and car crashes? I know teachers who have diabetes, asthma, obesity, in their 60s, hypertension...some with all of the above.  You're telling them to go back to work?

No, and if you would have read my post afterwards, you would see that I stated that they should not.. everyone seems to think I'm saying forget about this vifus and go back to full normal...I am not. There WILL be challenges in protecting the "at risk" community, but no more than the challenges that we are and have been facing... im the only one explaining any of this.. it seems everyone else is just saying "that won't work", "not possible". I keep asking you guys that disagree... WHAT IS YOUR ENDGAME? WHAT IS YOUR PLAN? A vaccine is not going to eradicate this. Even if it does work polls show 40 percent won't get it...what do you think we should do? 

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