Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone(Utopia) - Seattle cedes to Antifa

[Lysander]

35 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

It’s 1917 again.

Fixed that for you Comrade.

Edited June 12, 2020 by Lysander

[gonzoron]

6 minutes ago, Lysander said:

We have, quite literally, an armed insurrection taking over 6 blocks of a major American city

If they are, in fact, armed, kudos to them for exercising their 1st and 2nd Amendment rights.

Edited June 12, 2020 by gonzoron

[Lysander]

Just now, gonzoron said:

If they are, in fact, armed, kudos to them for exercising their 1st and 2nd Amendment rights.

They are carrying those AR15 “Assault Rifles”.

Much like mine.

 

[gonzoron]

9 minutes ago, Howe said:

The above statement makes no reference to Fox.

The author stated he was unable to find a reference using Google who routinley filter searches. Perhaps the links you provided were more readily available on a less politically driven search engine service.

I used Google. Found several pages of links.

 

9 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Keep in mind this has been going on several days now.

Malheur wasn't built in a day.

1 minute ago, Lysander said:

They are carrying those AR15 “Assault Rifles”.

Much like mine.

 

But do they have an armored John Deere?

[Lysander]

3 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

 

Malheur wasn't built in a day.

Touché....I like that one.....and the Deere.

(at some point I am going to need to get some work done today)

Edited June 12, 2020 by Lysander

[gonzoron]

2 minutes ago, Lysander said:

and the Deere

I will forever associate you and John Deere, lol. Hope things are going well for you!

 

[Lysander]

Just now, gonzoron said:

I will forever associate you and John Deere, lol. Hope things are going well for you!

 

Pretty well ourselves - though those “farmer” in-laws from the “Deere” days are sadly passed.

....and you?

[swordfish]

This was on the CBS News this morning.

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/police-abandon-precinct-in-seattle-neighborhood-demonstrators-move-in-and-demand-reforms/

The context being about the "mostly Peaceful" protesters and how the President "threatens" to take the city back.  Again - Orange man bad for wanting to enforce the law, but these people aren't breaking any laws........

The protesters may not realize it, but bottom line - A portion of the US has had an insurrection take place.    That's not how this works, and needs to be stopped.

3 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

If they are, in fact, armed, kudos to them for exercising their 2nd Amendment rights.

Wow - just wow.  SF thought you understood that the 2nd amendment is for "law abiding" citizens, not law breakers.  Use a firearm to commit a crime like take over and occupy part of a city, and see how that 2nd amendment works for you then.

 

[gonzoron]

6 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Pretty well ourselves - though those “farmer” in-laws from the “Deere” days are sadly passed.

....and you?

Doing great. Get to watch some girls basketball next weekend and all of July. Been too long.

[gonzoron]

On 5/22/2020 at 11:58 AM, swordfish said:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/michigan-barbers-hairdressers-free-haircuts-defy-whitmer-coronavirus-shutdown?fbclid=IwAR2yPKMJP7wV_rSs-T1VGwei23YRuIOAg8Ddu6KixcmfC_rmXiJ0ARrfq4w

 

Well done.

 

22 minutes ago, swordfish said:

This was on the CBS News this morning.

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/police-abandon-precinct-in-seattle-neighborhood-demonstrators-move-in-and-demand-reforms/

The context being about the "mostly Peaceful" protesters and how the President "threatens" to take the city back.  Again - Orange man bad for wanting to enforce the law, but these people aren't breaking any laws........

The protesters may not realize it, but bottom line - A portion of the US has had an insurrection take place.    That's not how this works, and needs to be stopped.

Wow - just wow.  SF thought you understood that the 2nd amendment is for "law abiding" citizens, not law breakers.  Use a firearm to commit a crime like take over and occupy part of a city, and see how that 2nd amendment works for you then.

 

[swordfish]

Right - Gotta be the same thing.  Big BS flag.  Don't even go there with this one Gonzo.

Those MI protesters obeyed the LAW,  (not an order) said their piece and went home.  No violence, no occupation, no "Autonomous Zone" just a real protest.  There is no comparison of the Seattle occupation and the MI protests........

[gonzoron]

1 minute ago, swordfish said:

Right - Gotta be the same thing.  Big BS flag.  Don't even go there with this one Gonzo.

Those MI protesters obeyed the LAW,  (not an order) said their piece and went home.  No violence, no occupation, no "Autonomous Zone" just a real protest.  There is no comparison of the Seattle occupation and the MI protests........

Do you believe in America, or just the America you want it to be?

[Muda69]

2 hours ago, swordfish said:

Is this new thinking - "Houseist"?

Probably.  Trailers may be banned in well-to-do Hamilton county, too downscale and harmful to property values.

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by Muda69

[gonzoron]

1 minute ago, Muda69 said:

Trailers may be banned in well-to-do Hamilton county, too downscale and harmful to property values.

False. Trailers are not banned in Hamilton County. There are quite a few of them there.

[swordfish]

10 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

Do you believe in America, or just the America you want it to be?

Again - the MI protesters did not break the law.  I believe in law and order in our republic. 

Isn't it amazing how only a few weeks ago liberal blue state governors were threatening that they would have to lay off police and other first responders if Trump didn't allow them to receive billions of dollars from the government. Now they talk openly about defunding or disbanding their police departments. You have to really be half psycho to figure these people out....

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by swordfish

[gonzoron]

44 minutes ago, swordfish said:

commit a crime like take over and occupy part of a city, and see how that 2nd amendment works for you then.

 

 

2 minutes ago, swordfish said:

Again - the MI protesters did not break the law.  I believe in law and order in our republic. 

 

They did occupy part of a city. By your own definition, that's a crime. If the Seatlle protestors leave, then they have not broken the law? Got it.

[Howe]

Common sense independents in swing states will reject all of this ridiculous nonsense. Coronavirus lockdown hoaxes, Democrat and mainstream media inspired riots and the lunacy in Seattle. A considerable portion of the young adults who are participating in the riots and looting won't even vote.

The Democrat platform and their candidate are so pathetic that they view schemes, scams and hoaxes as their best political strategy.

[DanteEstonia]

1 hour ago, Lysander said:

Fixed that for you Comrade.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

[Remarks on the first anniversary of the Alliance for Progress, 13 March 1962]

-John F. Kennedy

[swordfish]

27 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

 

They did occupy part of a city. By your own definition, that's a crime. If the Seatlle protestors leave, then they have not broken the law? Got it.

Again the liberal mind continues to fascinate me.....

[Howe]

38 minutes ago, swordfish said:

Again the liberal mind continues to fascinate me.....

PBS documentary "The Brain". Virginia Tech Neuro Research Institue

 

[gonzoron]

43 minutes ago, swordfish said:

Again the liberal mind continues to fascinate me.....

[Howe]

Science says liberals, not conservatives are pyschotic

https://nypost.com/2016/06/09/science-says-liberal-beliefs-are-linked-to-pyschotic-traits/

Turns out liberals are the real authoritarians.

A political-science journal that published an oft-cited study claiming conservatives were more likely to show traits associated with “psychoticism” now says it got it wrong. Very wrong.

The American Journal of Political Science published a correction this year saying that the 2012 paper has “an error” — and that liberal political beliefs, not conservative ones, are actually linked to psychoticism.

“The interpretation of the coding of the political attitude items in the descriptive and preliminary analyses portion of the manuscript was exactly reversed,” the journal said in the startling correction.

“The descriptive analyses report that those higher in Eysenck’s psychoticism are more conservative, but they are actually more liberal; and where the original manuscript reports those higher in neuroticism and social desirability are more liberal, they are, in fact, more conservative.”

In the paper, psychoticism is associated with traits such as tough-mindedness, risk-taking, sensation-seeking, impulsivity and authoritarianism.

The social-desirability scale measures people’s tendency to answer questions in ways they believe would please researchers, even if it means overestimating their positive characteristics and underestimating negative ones.

The erroneous report has been cited 45 times, according to Thomson Reuters Web of Science.

Brad Verhulst, a Virginia Commonwealth University researcher and a co-author of the paper, said he was not sure who was to blame.

“I don’t know where it happened. All I know is it happened,” he told Retraction Watch, a blog that tracks corrections in academic papers. “It’s our fault for not figuring it out before.”

The journal said the error doesn’t change the main conclusions of the paper, which found that “personality traits do not cause people to develop political attitudes.”

But professor Steven Ludeke of the University of Southern Denmark, who pointed out the errors, told Retraction Watch that they “matter quite a lot.”

“The erroneous results represented some of the larger correlations between personality and politics ever reported; they were reported and interpreted, repeatedly, in the wrong direction,” he said.

[swordfish]

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/06/12/seattle-police-chief-cops-not-able-to-respond-to-rapes-robberies-due-to-autonomous-zone/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR1px3xpR_D-BiQqDcysHN_Tfvs8QViHfoEDY_VmTbPV6BNpX0iTEsRGqW0&fbclid=IwAR0KGQ-QU6dPwgzJYH3eutzOaIy9078jOzDTXY4ycEYtGDyeAh3XnRRHxHw&fbclid=IwAR3XJfIL2fLZWlQtb5l5btZlHUENkgZR345F6qBDtqU4ic8LKBctM0A_KV4

Police have been unable to respond to “rapes, robberies, and all sorts of violent acts” occurring in Seattle’s East Precinct, which authorities abandoned on Monday, leaving the area in the hands of activists who set up their own police-free “Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone” (CHAZ), Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best said Thursday.

The police chief is now working on a plan to reopen the precinct, telling reporters calls for service “have more than tripled".

“These are responses to emergency calls — rapes, robberies, and all sorts of violent acts that have been occurring in the area that we’re not able to get to,” she said.

Emergency response times in the area have tripled, she noted, going from just over five minutes to 18 minutes.

“If that is your mother, your sister, your cousin, your neighbor’s kid that is being raped, robbed assaulted (or) otherwise victimized, you’re not going to want to have to report that it took the police three times longer to get there to provide services to them,” Best said.

“It was never an option to have residents of the precinct, many of whom are members of our most marginalized communities by the way, waiting for an extra length of time for an officer to arrive to a violent crime in progress,” she stated.

The police chief also confirmed someone breached the building, which was abandoned on Monday:

Andy Ngô

 

✔@MrAndyNgo

 

 

Seattle Police Chief: "Rapes, robberies and all sorts of violent acts have been occurring in the area and we're not able to get to [them]." #capitolhillautonomouszone #antifa #BlackLivesMatter

 

 

21.2K

12:03 AM - Jun 12, 2020

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15.6K people are talking about this

 

 

 

 

Carmen, in a Thursday video address to East Precinct officers, emphasized it was not her decision to abandon the precinct. Rather, it was the city that “relinquished to severe public pressure,” resulting in protesters — including Antifa members and self-described anarchists —  setting up a six-block perimeter, CHAZ, around the area and deeming it a police-free, “autonomous” zone.

“I asked you to stand on that line. Day in and day out. To be pelted with projectiles. To be screamed at. Threatened, and in some cases hurt. Then to have a change of course nearly two weeks in. It seems like an insult to you and our community,” Best said, adding “ultimately, the city had other plans for the building” and caved to public pressure:

Best also highlighted reports of armed individuals “patrolling” certain areas of CHAZ and said they have heard that those individuals “may be demanding payment from business owners in exchange for that protection,” although she noted at a later press conference the department had not received “any formal reports.” However, she also said in the video they have heard that individuals in the zone may be demanding to see identification from those who live in the area.

“This is not legal,” she stressed.

She wrapped up her brief message to officers by recognizing that they likely feel “underappreciated” but said, despite the noise, she believes “most” people in Seattle support the police department and its officers “even though they may not be the ones posting on social media.”

“They and I will continue to have your backs,” the police chief added.

 

 

 

[Muda69]

Seattle's CHAZ: Homesteaders or Illegal Squatters?

https://mises.org/power-market/seattles-chaz-homesteaders-or-illegal-squatters

Quote

Protestors in Seattle have taken over whole city blocks in a neighborhood known as Capitol Hill, just a bit north of downtown. They occupy city streets and parks, as well as (apparently) a police precinct building. This enclave, dubbed the "Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone" or CHAZ, is now making headlines around the world. Its newly assembled residents have declared CHAZ an independent nation apart from both Seattle and America, and thus exempt from laws and local police jurisdiction. They have set up fences and checkpoints around the area (so much for open borders), and already urban legends are proliferating about warlords taking over, extortion and shakedowns replacing taxes, and new forms of quasi-private security taking hold. Nobody knows how long the situation will persist, but recall how 2011's Occupy Wall Street demonstrations lasted many months.

Of course Capitol Hill, like all urban neighborhoods, is a mix of "public" and private property. Ingress and egress for residents and businesses take place via public streets, which are severely impaired at the moment. Property values, the viability of retail stores, and the general quietude and livability of this gentrified neighborhood are very much in flux. Anyone who owns a condo, shop, or restaurant in the area has a right to be angry and an argument for monetary compensation from both the protestors themselves and the city government that has so badly failed them.

Good luck with that in a Seattle courtroom.

But what about the purely "public" (i.e., government owned) land and buildings around Capitol Hill? To the extent that the occupied buildings and streets "belong" to the city of Seattle, are the protestors legitimately occupying them? Can anyone, Seattleite or not, make a valid claim to such property? Are they illegal squatters or legitimate homesteaders?

It seems like an absurd question on its face, and it is: surely the forceful takeover of a long-established area cannot be legitimate, even if a few government-owned roads and buildings muck up the principles involved. But no less than Professor Walter Block likens government-owned property to virgin territory, albeit stolen, available to any claimant for homesteading. In Block's conception, anything owned by the city of Seattle—including libraries, buildings, equipment, roads—you name it—is as wide open to anyone as a virgin tract of land in deepest Alaska never touched by humans. 

I do not at all claim that property such as government roads or libraries is "unowned." Rather, I claim these holdings were stolen. I agree that the state now possesses them; I argue, only, that this is unjustified. And, yes, I insist, the same libertarian analysis can be applied, in this context, to virgin and stolen land. Why? This is because for the libertarian, at least as I construe him, stolen land is de jure virgin land, ready for the next homesteader to seize it (on the assumption that the rightful original owner cannot be located, or he acquiesces in the state’s seizure, or that, arguendo, we can ignore this rightful owner.)

Seattle's mayor Jenny Durkan may not go quite as far as Dr. Block, but she does appear to acknowledge the new, uh, "community" essentially colonizing major thoroughfares in the Emerald City. She may not be ready to grant the CHAZ outright ownership of the streets in question, but neither is she setting any deadlines for eviction:

 

Clearly the mayor is in the midst of a dangerous situation, both literally for the people in the CHAZ and in terms of her own political career. It's a public relations nightmare. And from a purely legal perspective, what grants her authority over who occupies Capitol Hill?

One answer is taxes, says Dr. Hans-Hermann Hoppe. In his view, the streets of Seattle are not virgin territory available to homesteaders, but rather akin to land held in trust by (admittedly unworthy) state agents on behalf of taxpayers. If those trustees won't sell the land or other property outright and return the funds to taxpayers, Hoppe's view is that they at least ought to operate and maintain such property on their behalf. So, for the purpose of countering Dr. Block's contention that government property should be viewed as open to homesteading—and only for that purpose, Hoppe says—"public" property should be viewed as being owned by taxpayers. As such, it should be managed on behalf of the long-suffering (net) taxpaying citizens as a matter of simple justice.

Principles aside, the essence of ownership is control. Bureaucrats, police, and politicians who control access to and use of "public" property are its de facto owners, because only they can sell, encumber, or control its use. The average American's ownership claim to the local playground or a city library is virtually nil. Simply try sleeping in them overnight, and you'll quickly find out who really owns them. So, for the moment, the Seattle protestors have the greatest control over Capitol Hill and hence an ownership claim of sorts under the brute force of "possession is nine-tenths of the law."

Whether their claim is valid comes down to whether they are illegal squatters or righteous Lockean homesteaders. In a densely settled area like Seattle, with a long history of property titles flowing from valid sales, the question becomes absurd. Their protests and encampments directly affect the undisputed private property all around them. The Seattle government has thoroughly controlled the roads and police using funds forcibly taxed from Seattle residents. Capitol Hill residents, businesses, and visitors rely and depend on existing understandings and contractual arrangements. Seattle cannot be homesteaded, not even city property, in any conceivable manner that does justice to its current inhabitants. And to the extent that they've paid for it all through taxes, their right to evict the CHAZ protestors clearly supercedes any "right" to conflate occupation with protest.   

It's tempting to dismiss the Seattle protestors en masse because of their terrible and violent political beliefs, and their terrible designs for remaking America without property or markets. But that doesn't change the thorny question of how to deal with them here and now. If they are illegal squatters—not to mention disruptors of many who live or work in the area—then their forcible removal is justified. But New York City lacked the political will to remove Occupy Wall Street campers from Zuccotti Park for many months. Will ultrawoke Seattle in 2020, with its obliging mayor, evict the CHAZ protestors anytime soon?

I would start with a blockade.  Starve them out and turn of their electricity and water supply.

 

[swordfish]