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17 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

Carmel is big for everyone. Fishers and HSE are big as well. 
 

probably getting way too deep into this because it is what it is and I think the conferences do a good job right now. I’m just someone who believes conferences should be based more off of geography. With still the thought of size of school. I think there are multiple ways you could divide up the Indy metro schools for closer drives and varying up competitive play.

I agree on a few points here.

1.  The HCC (and any other conference for that matter) wants NOTHING to do with Carmel.  I agree on the fact that I think geography should play a large role but Carmel is not the answer.

2.  I think independence may be in Carmel’s distant future honestly.  They could play a “Cathedral-like” football schedule and do just fine in the state tournament.  They’ve simply outgrown and outclassed the MIC.  They’ve won the “all-conference sports award” every year of the conference’s existence and regularly win the cross country and swimming titles (maybe others as well) with their JV squads.  Let that sink in.

3.  I actually like the Center Grove/Lawrence North suggestion by DT though those north side drives to Greenwood/Bargersville would be a pain.

4.  Franklin Central is growing and will eventually be competitive in the HCC in multiple sports.  They just aren’t there yet in many cases.

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On 6/20/2020 at 8:29 AM, Temptation said:

I agree on a few points here.

1.  The HCC (and any other conference for that matter) wants NOTHING to do with Carmel.  I agree on the fact that I think geography should play a large role but Carmel is not the answer.

2.  I think independence may be in Carmel’s distant future honestly.  They could play a “Cathedral-like” football schedule and do just fine in the state tournament.  They’ve simply outgrown and outclassed the MIC.  They’ve won the “all-conference sports award” every year of the conference’s existence and regularly win the cross country and swimming titles (maybe others as well) with their JV squads.  Let that sink in.

3.  I actually like the Center Grove/Lawrence North suggestion by DT though those north side drives to Greenwood/Bargersville would be a pain.

4.  Franklin Central is growing and will eventually be competitive in the HCC in multiple sports.  They just aren’t there yet in many cases.

Becoming an independent may sound like a viable option, and it's not to say this isn't an option, but this makes for a scheduling nightmare by becoming an independent.  The reality is, if you make Carmel an independent, you'll still (most likely) play MIC teams during the MIC nonconference schedule, or potentially some MIC/some HCC.  This is 3 games (now that there would be 7 teams).  The remaining 6, well the HCC is out because they're in conference play, and the rest of Indiana (besides Cathedral, MAYBE Chatard, MAYBE Penn but doubtful on the last two) won't want to play Carmel on an annual basis.  Let's say Cathedral does jump on the Carmel train, that's 4 games on the schedule.  Who else does Carmel play?  Now, while Carmel Clay has a decent sized budget for athletics, you're most likely at this point having to play, at minimum, 4 games against out of state teams.  All that scheduling has to line up.  It's just a big hassle.

 

Now, as we know, football is the only sport where this is tough.  This isn't an issue in any other sport besides football, but for that reason alone, I don't see Carmel bailing.  It's a bit easier for Cathedral due to having a larger pool of teams they can play from Indiana annually (for example:  Cathedral has played Brebeuf, Jeffersonville, Chatard, East Noble, Tech, Mishawaka since 2016, all teams that would not want to schedule Carmel, maybe except for Chatard, which is still doubtful.)  As a parent, I'm against leaving the MIC.  If I were an administrator, I do believe seeking competitive balance in golf, swimming, tennis, cross country at Carmel is MUCH NEEDED, but in the meat of our budget sports (FB, BBB, GBB), we have certainly not outgrown or outclassed the rest of the MIC.  

 -

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

Becoming an independent may sound like a viable option, and it's not to say this isn't an option, but this makes for a scheduling nightmare by becoming an independent.  The reality is, if you make Carmel an independent, you'll still (most likely) play MIC teams during the MIC nonconference schedule, or potentially some MIC/some HCC.  This is 3 games (now that there would be 7 teams).  The remaining 6, well the HCC is out because they're in conference play, and the rest of Indiana (besides Cathedral, MAYBE Chatard, MAYBE Penn but doubtful on the last two) won't want to play Carmel on an annual basis.  Let's say Cathedral does jump on the Carmel train, that's 4 games on the schedule.  Who else does Carmel play?  Now, while Carmel Clay has a decent sized budget for athletics, you're most likely at this point having to play, at minimum, 4 games against out of state teams.  All that scheduling has to line up.  It's just a big hassle.

 

Now, as we know, football is the only sport where this is tough.  This isn't an issue in any other sport besides football, but for that reason alone, I don't see Carmel bailing.  It's a bit easier for Cathedral due to having a larger pool of teams they can play from Indiana annually (for example:  Cathedral has played Brebeuf, Jeffersonville, Chatard, East Noble, Tech, Mishawaka since 2016, all teams that would not want to schedule Carmel, maybe except for Chatard, which is still doubtful.)  As a parent, I'm against leaving the MIC.  If I were an administrator, I do believe seeking competitive balance in golf, swimming, tennis, cross country at Carmel is MUCH NEEDED, but in the meat of our budget sports (FB, BBB, GBB), we have certainly not outgrown or outclassed the rest of the MIC.  

 -

I generally agree.  Football scheduling is difficult......but doable.

I think it might be more problematic than one thinks in other sports just because there are so many of them.  The problem is replicating that “no-conference game” schedule for ALL the other sports.  While I agree football is a wholly different animal to schedule individually, it’s still going to be difficult (and tons of work) to do it for all sports.

As a side note, I think many will not be happy when all those “All-Conference” designations for kids disappear.  As an Independent, about the only post season recognition accolades your kids have to look forward to is whether or not they are All-State.  It may sound a bit petty but I think many will dearly miss that little cherry on top of the Sunday.

 

Edited by Lysander

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On 6/15/2020 at 2:47 PM, DT said:

DTs 6A Dandy Dozen Pre Season

 

1. Center Grove - overwhelming talent everywhere on the roster, in all classes.  Potentially CGs best team ever,  Next year might be even stronger.  

2. Carmel - Hounds have proven that they are now the most consistently strong of the Big 3.  They continue to set the pace in development of D1 players.

3. Warren Central - The Warriors are not what they used to be, but extreme athletic talent in large numbers generally overcomes all else.  

4. Avon - Orioles have gotten all the hype over the past several seasons but have not delivered on the hype.  

5. Brownsburg - Seems like they have developed a habit of losing "the big game."  Need to get over the hump.  John Hart has been a wanderer over hjis career and time may be running short for him to deliver in The Burg.

6. FW Snider - Lots of optimism heading in to this season.  

7. Homestead - Right on Sniders heels

8. Ben Davis - The Giants are not so big and scary anymore

9. Merrillville - Brad Seiss has the Pirates humming and loaded for bear

10. Columbus East 

11. Penn - the slide continues in The Kingdom.

12. North Central - Opportunity for the Panthers to show they belong in this conversation.

 

 

 

Homestead won't even be close. The QB, Goode, hung up his cleats. Focusing on Basketball. Carroll out of Fort Wayne might make some noise. Snider is a second level team now. This is just my opinion. 

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On 6/15/2020 at 9:12 PM, BTF said:

Out of the Northeast.............Snider, Homestead, and Carroll.

Snider will be out for blood this year after dropping games to both Homestead and Carroll last year. They seem to be a bit of a mystery to me though. On one hand I can see them bowing out of the sectionals for the second year in a row after a string of 12 straight championships. On the other hand, well, they are still Snider. They could perhaps put together a team that can rumble with the Indy big boys. Never count out Tippmann/Isaacs/Bush.

Don't sleep on Carroll. In fact, I have them as the early favorite to win the SAC and upend Snider in the sectionals for a second year in a row. They have a good quarterback and a great core of receivers returning. Snider's weakness is typically their pass defense. Carroll could exploit that............again.

Homestead took a big hit when Luke Goode decided to hang up his cleats on the gridiron  to focus on Baskeball and his commitment to Illinois. He would have been one of the best 3 or 4 quarterbacks in the state. The Spartans always seem to reload at the quarterback position though. And with the return of Braeden Hardwick, they could make some noise. Homestead was one of the best teams in the state last year when he was healthy.  I'm going to go with a 3rd or 4th place finish in the loaded SAC (loaded at the top) this year.

 

If Harwick plays. he dropped baseball, which surprised me. He is cleared to play after his knee surgery.It will be interesting. 

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10 minutes ago, Mebuck said:

Homestead won't even be close. The QB, Goode, hung up his cleats. Focusing on Basketball. Carroll out of Fort Wayne might make some noise. Snider is a second level team now. This is just my opinion. 

Mebuck, you make me sad, Snider at a second level?? HaHa. You may be right though, they have a lot to replace, sometimes they can reload and go, other times not. Time will tell, always look forward to the Snider/Dwenger game. I'm assuming Dwenger and Carroll will be the 1 & 2 in the SAC this year. I hope the season plays out this year, I have doubts this will happen. 

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On 6/16/2020 at 8:48 PM, psaboy said:

I would probably put Carroll on top of SAC, probably with Saints. Snider and Homestead battling for 3/4th spot. Any idea who gets the call at QB for Snider (BTF)??

Carroll was mine as well, however Dwenger has made some serious changes at the DC and OC. Heard that this team is the best team in the last 3 years. Garrett is out to win 5A. 

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Just now, psaboy said:

Mebuck, you make me sad, Snider at a second level?? HaHa. You may be right though, they have a lot to replace, sometimes they can reload and go, other times not. Time will tell, always look forward to the Snider/Dwenger game. I'm assuming Dwenger and Carroll will be the 1 & 2 in the SAC this year. I hope the season plays out this year, I have doubts this will happen. 

It was hard to say that. I feel like the kids are different nowadays. Who knows. Maybe I am getting to my old man stage of life..lol

 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Mebuck said:

Carroll was mine as well, however Dwenger has made some serious changes at the DC and OC. Heard that this team is the best team in the last 3 years. Garrett is out to win 5A. 

It will be a good year in 5A, maybe more exciting than the run of the mill 6A where no one really has a chance other than the Indy mega schools.

Edited by psaboy

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2 hours ago, Mebuck said:

It was hard to say that. I feel like the kids are different nowadays. Who knows. Maybe I am getting to my old man stage of life..lol

 

Maybe you are basing that on Snider going 2-3 against Dwenger, Homestead, and Carroll last year? Don't forget, they won the state championship in 2015 and was one of the top 3 or 4 teams in the entire state. Snider was also one of the ten best teams in the state in 2017. Let's not pull the plug on them yet, lol. 

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On 6/16/2020 at 8:48 PM, psaboy said:

I would probably put Carroll on top of SAC, probably with Saints. Snider and Homestead battling for 3/4th spot. Any idea who gets the call at QB for Snider (BTF)??

I agree with Carroll being on top of the SAC....their QB will be more experienced, and they have a stud sophomore RB (Fisher) who should be a big improvement over what they had last year. They got almost no production from their RBs last year and still were able to beat Snider in Sectionals.

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On 6/23/2020 at 10:46 PM, BTF said:

Maybe you are basing that on Snider going 2-3 against Dwenger, Homestead, and Carroll last year? Don't forget, they won the state championship in 2015 and was one of the top 3 or 4 teams in the entire state. Snider was also one of the ten best teams in the state in 2017. Let's not pull the plug on them yet, lol. 

I've heard that Luke Haupert has a good chance of being starting QB. He is a sophomore, so we will see if me gets the call. I've also read they have 3-4 D players that are doing really well at camps this summer, so maybe they will surprise teams this year. 

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45 minutes ago, psaboy said:

I've heard that Luke Haupert has a good chance of being starting QB. He is a sophomore, so we will see if me gets the call. I've also read they have 3-4 D players that are doing really well at camps this summer, so maybe they will surprise teams this year. 

They're still Snider regardless of what anyone says. Sure they lost to Homestead last year. But they were 15-1 against them over the past two decades. Sure they've gone 2-2 against Carroll the past two seasons. I still remember recently in 2017 when Snider beat them 69-7 in a game that would have mercy ruled Carroll in the first half had that rule been in place. I'm not taking anything away from Homestead and Carroll, but lets stop this nonsense that Snider has fallen on hard times. Do people really think that much has changed at Snider since 2015 and 2017 when they were Top 5 programs regardless of class?

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Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, BTF said:

They're still Snider regardless of what anyone says. Sure they lost to Homestead last year. But they were 15-1 against them over the past two decades. Sure they've gone 2-2 against Carroll the past two seasons. I still remember recently in 2017 when Snider beat them 69-7 in a game that would have mercy ruled Carroll in the first half had that rule been in place. I'm not taking anything away from Homestead and Carroll, but lets stop this nonsense that Snider has fallen on hard times. Do people really think that much has changed at Snider since 2015 and 2017 when they were Top 5 programs regardless of class?

I know, they still need to be considered year in and year out. In past it seemed they just needed to watch out for 1 or 2 teams (Dwenger and usually one other, Luers typically) The SAC has become more competitive with Homestead and Carroll, so they have a few more gunning for them every year. You know as well as I, they are usually the team with the bullseye on their back year in and year out in the SAC, they are the team people want to beat. 

Edited by psaboy

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19 hours ago, Temptation said:

Unreal. Really looking forward to watching them play this year. Fingers crossed we can actually watch them play this year. I have no logical reasoning for making this statement as it's truly a gut feeling, but I have a feeling they're going to come out firing and open a can of whoop*** on Warren in Week 1. 

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3 hours ago, Boilernation said:

Unreal. Really looking forward to watching them play this year. Fingers crossed we can actually watch them play this year. I have no logical reasoning for making this statement as it's truly a gut feeling, but I have a feeling they're going to come out firing and open a can of whoop*** on Warren in Week 1. 

I like CG from the South and I’ll take Penn from the North. No particular reason I just feel that program will find a way to win and get back to the state finals with Carmel goung South. However, i think there could be at least 4 or 5 schools who makes it from the north 

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34 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

I like CG from the South and I’ll take Penn from the North. No particular reason I just feel that program will find a way to win and get back to the state finals with Carmel goung South. However, i think there could be at least 4 or 5 schools who makes it from the north 

After two mediocre years, one would think the Kingsmen are due to bounce back. Good luck to them. 

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1 minute ago, BTF said:

After two mediocre years, one would think the Kingsmen are due to bounce back. Good luck to them. 

Well, sports are cyclical. so there's that...

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8 hours ago, Gipper said:

Well, sports are cyclical. so there's that...

 

8 hours ago, Gipper said:

Well, sports are cyclical. so there's that...

I dont think you will see the same Penn as you have in the past.  Penn and Lake Central are similar in some areas.  Each is by far the biggest school in enrollment in its geographic section of the state.  Both schools have seen a huge surge in successful girls sports over the past decade.  At the same time, both football programs have been in decline.  

I believe the culture at some of these mega schools is changing and is being influenced more and more by girls sports.  Crown Point is very similar to Lake Central in this regard.  Girls state titles have equal or even more weight internally at the schools than do boys titles.  Girls titles are more common.  

We are starting to see more women in the AD role.  This will also tend to influence priority of girls sports over boys sports in some instances.

I believe this to be a subtle but long term change currently impacting some of the biggest schools in the state.  

 

 

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On 7/8/2020 at 10:44 PM, DT said:

 

I dont think you will see the same Penn as you have in the past.  Penn and Lake Central are similar in some areas.  Each is by far the biggest school in enrollment in its geographic section of the state.  Both schools have seen a huge surge in successful girls sports over the past decade.  At the same time, both football programs have been in decline.  

I believe the culture at some of these mega schools is changing and is being influenced more and more by girls sports.  Crown Point is very similar to Lake Central in this regard.  Girls state titles have equal or even more weight internally at the schools than do boys titles.  Girls titles are more common.  

We are starting to see more women in the AD role.  This will also tend to influence priority of girls sports over boys sports in some instances.

I believe this to be a subtle but long term change currently impacting some of the biggest schools in the state.  

 

 

This post PROVES how no one on this site should, or in my opinion, does take you seriously.  Are you kidding me?

 

Out of all the stuff you have said, with contraction, Ben Davis and Warren Central declining, this is by far the most delusional.

 

Penn, Lake Central and Crown Point, none of them have female AD’s, so why bring them up?  Oh, and funny enough you mention that, because a school mentioned above, Ben Davis, has a female AD for 30+ years and won 6 football titles and 2 basketball titles during her time when the female sports should have been dominating.  Give me a break!

 

And of course the girls sports should be weighted equally to boys.  They’re HUMAN BEINGS just like the guys.  Girls basketball shouldn’t be just as important as boys.

 

Girls titles are more common?  They’ve had the same number of sports as the boys for 20+ years, so wrong again.  Oh, and of those three you mentioned, only Penn has won any girls titles in the last decade. (1 basketball title)

 

The last I checked, a girl in athletics has nothing to do with how a boy performs on the athletic field.  At least it never has in my many years around athletic programs.

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8 hours ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

This post PROVES how no one on this site should, or in my opinion, does take you seriously.  Are you kidding me?

 

Out of all the stuff you have said, with contraction, Ben Davis and Warren Central declining, this is by far the most delusional.

 

Penn, Lake Central and Crown Point, none of them have female AD’s, so why bring them up?  Oh, and funny enough you mention that, because a school mentioned above, Ben Davis, has a female AD for 30+ years and won 6 football titles and 2 basketball titles during her time when the female sports should have been dominating.  Give me a break!

 

And of course the girls sports should be weighted equally to boys.  They’re HUMAN BEINGS just like the guys.  Girls basketball shouldn’t be just as important as boys.

 

Girls titles are more common?  They’ve had the same number of sports as the boys for 20+ years, so wrong again.  Oh, and of those three you mentioned, only Penn has won any girls titles in the last decade. (1 basketball title)

 

The last I checked, a girl in athletics has nothing to do with how a boy performs on the athletic field.  At least it never has in my many years around athletic programs.

John Clark is certainly NOT a female...

Stopped reading right there.

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4 hours ago, Temptation said:

John Clark is certainly NOT a female...

Stopped reading right there.

It meant to say had

Priscilla Dillow was at the school for years.  John Clark has been there what, maybe 8-10 years.

 

Honest mistake

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

This post PROVES how no one on this site should, or in my opinion, does take you seriously.  Are you kidding me?

 

Out of all the stuff you have said, with contraction, Ben Davis and Warren Central declining, this is by far the most delusional.

 

Penn, Lake Central and Crown Point, none of them have female AD’s, so why bring them up?  Oh, and funny enough you mention that, because a school mentioned above, Ben Davis, has a female AD for 30+ years and won 6 football titles and 2 basketball titles during her time when the female sports should have been dominating.  Give me a break!

 

And of course the girls sports should be weighted equally to boys.  They’re HUMAN BEINGS just like the guys.  Girls basketball shouldn’t be just as important as boys.

 

Girls titles are more common?  They’ve had the same number of sports as the boys for 20+ years, so wrong again.  Oh, and of those three you mentioned, only Penn has won any girls titles in the last decade. (1 basketball title)

 

The last I checked, a girl in athletics has nothing to do with how a boy performs on the athletic field.  At least it never has in my many years around athletic programs.

CP has a 4A girls softball state championship.  CP is most definitely a school that is now defined by its girls sports.  I stated that we are seeing more female athletic directors.  I did not state that any of the schools mentioned had female ADs.  You jumped to that conclusion.

Do I believe that Penn, CP and LC are "softer" and more female oriented athletically than they were 20 years ago?  Yes I do.  Thats called an opinion my friend.  Cant be either proven or disproven.

 

 

Edited by DT

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