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Neutral sites seems to work very well in Ohio.  Only their 1st round games (Region quarterfinal) are hosted by top seeds  Why would it not work in Indiana? Apathy by schools is the argument I'm reading above.

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Also the only state in the union who refused to change times for decades to keep the cow milking on the same schedule. Indiana is a central time zone state pretending to be an eastern one.

Let's just call it what it is and dont beat around the bush or try to avoid reality Indy schools have home field advantage in the state finals They get to sleep in their own beds while other

DST isn't the issue...the issue is the SW and NW corners of the state being on CST.  I think it is nuts that any of Indiana is on EST...just my opinion.  

3 minutes ago, RegionFBFan said:

Neutral sites seems to work very well in Ohio.  Only their 1st round games (Region quarterfinal) are hosted by top seeds  Why would it not work in Indiana? Apathy by schools is the argument I'm reading above.

Came to say exactly this. Ohio has been doing it following the 1st round of their playoffs for YEARS and it works great for them. Makes a lot of sense IMO

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I think neutral sites for Indiana semi states would be a real dud.

You simply cannot replace the home field on campus excitement and electric atmosphere that a semi state football game brings to a community.  Ohio has many more casual football fans than Indiana.  Their semi state games draw from a much broader audience that goes well beyond the schools participating.

This element is a real feather in the cap of our tournament process.  Its why we are different and unique.  

Here is what is very cool about it.  Many schools in the Region might hate Andrean during the season, but they are there at Demaree Stadium on Interstate 65 if the 59ers are hosting a semi state battle, and most become Andrean fans for a night because the school is representing The Region.  That goes for Lowell, Valpo, Michigan City, or anyone else who advances deep into the tournament.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, DT said:

I think neutral sites for Indiana semi states would be a real dud.

You simply cannot replace the home field on campus excitement and electric atmosphere that a semi state football game brings to a community.  Ohio has many more casual football fans than Indiana.  Their semi state games draw from a much broader audience that goes well beyond the schools participating.

This element is a real feather in the cap of our tournament process.  Its why we are different and unique.  

Here is what is very cool about it.  Many schools in the Region might hate Andrean during the season, but they are there at Demaree Stadium on Interstate 65 if the 59ers are hosting a semi state battle, and most become Andrean fans for a night because the school is representing The Region.  That goes for Lowell, Valpo, Michigan City, or anyone else who advances deep into the tournament.

 

 

Have you been to a regional or semi state championship game at Ben Davis or Warren Central? No crowd for those schools whatsoever

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Agree that Ohio has a lot more casual and rabid football fans than Indiana.

Also agree that Indiana is unique and different but not necessarily for the better. From a competitive perspective, neutral site is more balanced for both teams vs one team driving 2.5-3.5 hrs hours to compete. From attendance perspective, one could argue this both ways without any real data to support argument.  It could increase, decrease or stay the same in a neutral site format. My belief is that worse case it would remain the same.

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7 minutes ago, Indiana Fan said:

Have you been to a regional or semi state championship game at Ben Davis or Warren Central? No crowd for those schools whatsoever

Neither school came to mind when I thought about this topic.  

The last semi state I was at was Valpo at Fishers.  Great atmosphere.  Crisp , cold November night.  Packed house.  

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1 hour ago, DT said:

I think neutral sites for Indiana semi states would be a real dud.

You simply cannot replace the home field on campus excitement and electric atmosphere that a semi state football game brings to a community.  Ohio has many more casual football fans than Indiana.  Their semi state games draw from a much broader audience that goes well beyond the schools participating.

This element is a real feather in the cap of our tournament process.  Its why we are different and unique.  

Here is what is very cool about it.  Many schools in the Region might hate Andrean during the season, but they are there at Demaree Stadium on Interstate 65 if the 59ers are hosting a semi state battle, and most become Andrean fans for a night because the school is representing The Region.  That goes for Lowell, Valpo, Michigan City, or anyone else who advances deep into the tournament.

 

 

I was just throwing that idea out there for whatever it's worth.

I know neutral sites works great down here in Texas, and no one can say the fans here are just casual, but maybe that's what helps it work.   Playoff teams down here have fan bases that travel well.  The neutral school gets a portion of the evening's takings, and if you have large crowds, that can turn into a nice little sum, especially if you have a nice facility and host several playoff games, and many do.  Same goes for the neutral school's concession stand, and I might be wrong but I believe the stand keeps everything they bring in.  Saving some driving time when your opponent is 4 hours away, or more, is a big deal.  Drive time may not be that big of a deal in Indiana due to it;s smaller size, but that might be relative.  2 1/2 hours for you could be equivalent to 4+ for us.  I also would beg to differ regarding the home field excitement factor - down here.  Maybe not 100% across the board, but the playoff games I've been to had the fans as pumped up (IMO) as any home game.  But then again, neutral sites are what we're used to and I can understand it could be a very big change for some communities up there.

I would think if schools see it as too much work to be a neutral site, that could be a little apathy or maybe it's just that round ball is such a close competitor to football it makes the effort not worth it to have both going at once if it's not your team playing? I still see Indiana as primarily a basketball state, is that accurate?  Currently, do schools split the gate in playoffs, or is it 60/40 or 70/30 or how do they do it?

What works down here may not work somewhere else.  It seems to be the "fairest" method, but lots of things need to be factored in.

Edited by Bonecrusher
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Good post Bonecrusher. I have stated on other threads earlier in the year that if I could make only one change to IHSAA, it would be neutral site for regional and semi state. i wouldn't mind Sectional championship also, but could leave with that staying as is.

It is at least very encouraging the the new leadership is thinking about ways to improve.  Step in the right direction.

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1 hour ago, Bonecrusher said:

I was just throwing that idea out there for whatever it's worth.

I know neutral sites works great down here in Texas, and no one can say the fans here are just casual, but maybe that's what helps it work.   Playoff teams down here have fan bases that travel well.  The neutral school gets a portion of the evening's takings, and if you have large crowds, that can turn into a nice little sum, especially if you have a nice facility and host several playoff games, and many do.  Same goes for the neutral school's concession stand, and I might be wrong but I believe the stand keeps everything they bring in.  Saving some driving time when your opponent is 4 hours away, or more, is a big deal.  Drive time may not be that big of a deal in Indiana due to it;s smaller size, but that might be relative.  2 1/2 hours for you could be equivalent to 4+ for us.  I also would beg to differ regarding the home field excitement factor - down here.  Maybe not 100% across the board, but the playoff games I've been to had the fans as pumped up (IMO) as any home game.  But then again, neutral sites are what we're used to and I can understand it could be a very big change for some communities up there.

I would think if schools see it as too much work to be a neutral site, that could be a little apathy or maybe it's just that round ball is such a close competitor to football it makes the effort not worth it to have both going at once if it's not your team playing? I still see Indiana as primarily a basketball state, is that accurate?  Currently, do schools split the gate in playoffs, or is it 60/40 or 70/30 or how do they do it?

What works down here may not work somewhere else.  It seems to be the "fairest" method, but lots of things need to be factored in.

Yeth

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If we were on central time here at least we'd have friday night lights again.The first half of the season it doesn't get dark until halftime.

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1 hour ago, Bonecrusher said:

Currently, do schools split the gate in playoffs, or is it 60/40 or 70/30 or how do they do it?

Sectional - The schools split profits evenly after the IHSAA gets 2%. 

Regional - Each school gets $600. That’s it. The rest of the gate money goes to the IHSAA. The host school also receives $100 for use of their facility. Tickets cost 8 bucks. After 150 people walk through the gate, the state gets the money from the hundreds if not thousands more fans.

Semi-State - Each school gets $700 of the gate. Again, the rest goes to IHSAA. The host school also receives $100 for the use of their faculty. This time only 140 fans are going to the gate fund for the schools.

Having some experience in an athletics department, there is very little gain in hosting. State gets a grand majority of the gate. Concessions at some schools are not a money maker. In NWI, at least a half dozen have outsourced. Also, even through the ticket takers and chain gang are being paid by the IHSAA, they’re receiving only about $35 (probably less than what most make during the regular season - differs from school to school).

I see zero reason for a neutral sectional. Same goes for regional. You could maybe convince me for semi-state. I see no problem with how it is now though. Yeah, it sucks when you’re Hobart and Andrean and have to bus 3 hours to Kendalville or the outskirts of Marion, but it is what it is. The geography gets a little tricky if you want to find a neutral site that works year in and year out. States like Ohio and Texas are much larger than Indiana and warrant neutral sites.

The bottom line for the IHSAA is what makes the most money. They would probably lose money making neutral site tournament games. There are casual fans that will only go if their school is playing at home. You’re asking the real fans of both schools to then travel instead of just 1 fanbase if you go neutral site.

We should be more worried about seeding 1 & 2 in the sectional. 

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On 6/27/2020 at 5:40 PM, Temptation said:

The IHSAA voted unanimously in favor of getting rid of the 1/3/5 and 2/4/6 format at the state finals.  Now, matchups will be looked at after the semi state round and geography will be considered to possibly boost attendance.

They will look to make travel easier if multiple teams from certain areas of the state make it to Lucas Oil.

Thoughts?  I like it.

I don't dislike it but I think its just going to open things up for complaints from damn near everyone and more criticism for the IHSAA.  With the current format everyone knows what's what from the get go.  Now we're leaving things up to the IHSAA to make a good decision in a very short time-frame??  Recipe for disaster if you ask me.  They're either too lazy or not smart enough to seed a tournament so what makes anyone think this will work out well.

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19 hours ago, Gipper said:

Time zones are, or at least should, be based on Meridians of Longitude.  You begin in London, head west 15 degrees for your first time zone (GMT—Greenwich Mean Time). Keep going by 15 degrees and you would see that Indiana and the Eastern half of Illinois, Wisconsin, and Yooperland (Upper Peninsula of Michigan) would all be in the same time zone.

Like everything else, someone just thought that up.  It's a great idea, but someone else has another idea that makes just as much sense. 

 

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On 6/28/2020 at 9:15 PM, Titan32 said:

DST isn't the issue...the issue is the SW and NW corners of the state being on CST.  I think it is nuts that any of Indiana is on EST...just my opinion.  

Agree and I grew up on the Indiana & Ohio state line. I'm temporarily in Ohio but will hopefully be back in Indiana soon. I'm all for Indiana going to central time even living in Ohio currently but working in Indiana still.

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On 6/29/2020 at 7:46 PM, Gipper said:

Time zones are, or at least should, be based on Meridians of Longitude.  You begin in London, head west 15 degrees for your first time zone (GMT—Greenwich Mean Time). Keep going by 15 degrees and you would see that Indiana and the Eastern half of Illinois, Wisconsin, and Yooperland (Upper Peninsula of Michigan) would all be in the same time zone.

I like this proposal-

https://qz.com/357823/america-needs-to-have-just-two-time-zones-and-the-world-should-follow-suit/

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24 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

Why? The idea that 5 pm on the East Coast at the same time it is 5 pm through most of Texas and Nebraska is ridiculous. There would be very little daylight through what is now the Central time zone in that plan. I am not a fan of daylight savings time at all, but this goes too far the other way. Friends in the New England area say there is a push to move that area to the Atlantic Time Zone. 

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Posted (edited)

Indianapolis wants to be on New York time.  Major business that impacts the state is conducted through NYC.  Hence there is no discussion relative to the time zone.

Edited by DT
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2 hours ago, Irishman said:

Why? The idea that 5 pm on the East Coast at the same time it is 5 pm through most of Texas and Nebraska is ridiculous. There would be very little daylight through what is now the Central time zone in that plan. I am not a fan of daylight savings time at all, but this goes too far the other way. Friends in the New England area say there is a push to move that area to the Atlantic Time Zone. 

It would  all depend on the particular Meridian of Longitude,  If they're east of 60 degrees West, have at it...

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I prefer to live on the west edge of any time zone to maximize daylight at the end of a day rather than the beginning. I'm perfectly fine with ET. I often work with people around the country and I prefer to be aligned with those on ET. If we were CT I would have to start an hour earlier each day to be aligned with those on ET. End of day seems to have more flexibility. Just my personal preference.

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On 7/1/2020 at 3:16 PM, DT said:

Indianapolis wants to be on New York time.  Major business that impacts the state is conducted through NYC.  Hence there is no discussion relative to the time zone.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/2126300002

On 7/1/2020 at 3:19 PM, Gipper said:

It should be about geography, period.

Correct Indiana is in the Central time zone.  

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On 6/28/2020 at 6:26 AM, DT said:

Let's just call it what it is and dont beat around the bush or try to avoid reality

Indy schools have home field advantage in the state finals

They get to sleep in their own beds while others are in cheap hotels

Relax in their own homes while others are driving in winter weather

Maximize practice time and rest while others are traveling

It's a huge advantage for the local schools

 

 

This may be a reach but I always thought it'd be cool if they did a traveling state title. One year at Lucas Oil, next at Notre Dame Stadium, go to Bloomington, and then West Lafayette. I'm not sure if there is a stadium in the southern part of the state that would be feasible for a 6A state title.

I'm sure attendance would be much worse than it is now at Lucas Oil because they'd be outdoor games. But, at least those schools in the North & South wouldn't have to travel nearly as far every year. It would also take away that home game feeling those metro schools have when they play.

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50 minutes ago, coach_schreibjr said:

This may be a reach but I always thought it'd be cool if they did a traveling state title. One year at Lucas Oil, next at Notre Dame Stadium, go to Bloomington, and then West Lafayette. I'm not sure if there is a stadium in the southern part of the state that would be feasible for a 6A state title.

I'm sure attendance would be much worse than it is now at Lucas Oil because they'd be outdoor games. But, at least those schools in the North & South wouldn't have to travel nearly as far every year. It would also take away that home game feeling those metro schools have when they play.

I like that idea!  I don’t know anything about UE’s football facility and Hanover’s in tiny.  I don’t think it’s very big at ISU either.

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