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It is now a virtual lock that we will have high school football this Fall. Post your comments, observations, hopes, fears, etc., as we try to find the “new normal.”

Observation: there is no possible way the high school football season can proceed safely. The pros and NCAA make a better case for the return to competition, since the cornerstone of their guidance is frequent and thorough testing of even asymptomatic individuals coupled with isolation protocols. Yet several colleges have already suspended their summer programs because of large numbers of positives. There won’t be any such testing at the high school level.  If you doubt it, read this article by former Munster High School Trainer John Doherty. https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/sports-medicine-even-athletes-must-be-vigilant-to-ravages-of-covid-19/article_1c678744-361d-5ce9-8baa-e37e76a39f63.html He quotes Dan Slotar, a fellowship-trained infectious disease specialist, as follows:

“I’ve been an advocate for reentry and reopening of society in general but with certain caveats,” he said. “Some sports are easier to contemplate restarting without the need for as aggressive testing as professional athletes have the luxury of access to. So there is obviously going to be a spectrum. Cross country and golf are one extreme and wrestling would be the other extreme. I would be hesitant about contact sports like football or even basketball without testing. I don’t how that can be addressed on the high school level.” (emphasis supplied)

Comment: the return to competition is driven almost wholly by economics. The IHSAA got no revenue from the boy’s basketball tournament. They miss the boy’s football tournament and they’re going to be bankrupt. Schools are in the same boat. Without that revenue, athletic departments are simply unable to function. So, I hope we have a great season. But don’t kid yourself. People are going to die who would not have died otherwise. I hope it’s worth it.

 

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yet countless times we have members who want to push their personal belief systems onto a high school message board dedicated to football.    Makes A LOT of Sense doesn't it............... t

the bottom line is pretty simple.......if we want to play the game we love, watch the game we love, coach the game we love and officiate the game we love.....wear a mask........if not by the end of Ju

Try as I might, I cannot see the logic behind this. It reminds me of when I was a little kid, and one of my friends got to do something I wanted to do, but my parents wouldn’t let me because they thou

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@Bobref I concur with both your observation and comment. 
 

To add my own comment: a lot of industries, excluding trucking and rail transportation, are hurting for revenue. This, unfortunately, is leading to a disregard for safety.

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You might find this interesting, but I am not one of those that is against a return to competition. I would just like to hear someone in authority tell it like it really is. Something like this:

”Yes, we have a plan for return to competition. We understand that by resuming high school football we will almost certainly experience increasing positives, despite the fact that our return to competition guidelines attempt to minimize that.Some kids will get sick. Some will transmit the virus to others, including the vulnerable and, as a result, some people will be hospitalized, and the odds are that some will die. However, we believe on balance that a return to high school football provides value to society that exceeds the likely downside. Therefore, we will be playing this Fall.”

Isn’t that what’s really happening?

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My hopes is that people can be adults and do what's best for them. If corna scares you then do your part and don't associate yourself. There is 0 anyone can do to prevent this 100%. Is just not going to happen. If your fan and worried about the spread then stay home and don't go. Make sure all the players understand the risk and if they choose not to play then that's OK. If being a ref worries you....take time away until you're comfortable. Nobody has to do this. But shall you decide you want to then do what you can to minimize the spread. It won't be prevented. 

Im sure this thread will end up locked as they all have and I hate it always gets political but people have to take care of themselves and if you're worried dont put yourself in a position to be around people unless its mandatory. If it is then wear a mask, social distance, and bring sanitizer. Do what you can.

I recently went back to work at a casino and everyday are 100s of people who are 80% the high risk and 0 of them care. They pull their mask off or down the moment they can. They care more about not being able to smoke then social distancing. I personally am not worried about catching it and do know the part about not having symptoms and possibly passing it at work, but again....they arent trying to stop themselves from getting it. 

If you don't agree that is OK. I respect your side of it. Im not going to argue points about it. This is MY opinion. I hope a vaccine comes soon and we can get back to arguing about city speed because at this point it would be 100% better then it becoming political or arguing over freedoms. Everyone stay safe and take care of yourself. I hope this season is better then most expect. 

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Bobref - I have to agree with you.  If anyone is believing that this virus will not affect their team during this season, then I think they may be disappointed.  We truly are trying to find the tipping point with this thing.

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Young men playing high school football are in an age group that represents less than 1/2 of 1% of Covid-19 related deaths. In other words, of the next 200 people in Indiana who die from the virus, only one will be in the age range of a high school football player. It's basically twice as deadly as the flu. Are we going to allow a total economic collapse by shutting everything down again? It's time to get back to normal. Let the kids and parents decide and sign a waiver.  

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2 minutes ago, BTF said:

Young men playing high school football are in an age group that represents less than 1/2 of 1% of Covid-19 related deaths. In other words, of the next 200 people in Indiana who die from the virus, only one will be in the age range of a high school football player. It's basically twice as deadly as the flu. Are we going to allow a total economic collapse by shutting everything down again? It's time to get back to normal. Let the kids and parents decide and sign a waiver.  

But can said player go out for a hamburger with his grandparents after the game?

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3 minutes ago, Temptation said:

But can said player go out for a hamburger with his grandparents after the game?

I guess that would up to the grandparents. I wouldn't recommend it. That age bracket has another set of rules. If I'm over 65, I'm probably watching the game on TV.

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4 minutes ago, BTF said:

I guess that would up to the grandparents. I wouldn't recommend it. 

That’s my biggest issue with this thing.  Are we legitimately asking folks (teachers, coaches, players) to put their social lives on hold in favor of their career/sport?

The kids will be fine.

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1 minute ago, Temptation said:

That’s my biggest issue with this thing.  Are we legitimately asking folks (teachers, coaches, players) to put their social lives on hold in favor of their career/sport?

The kids will be fine.

I think we have to move forward. We are already trillions in dept as a country. Another shutdown will make recovery impossible no matter who is in charge after November.

I still think we let the parents, coaches, kids, and fans decide. We all know the risks. No one will force a kid to play. No one will force a coach to coach. No one will force a fan to attend. 

I saw this coming. Football is the money sport for most schools at the high school and college level. Not having a season will be absolutely devastating financially. Start the season and go from there. If it get's out of hand the season can always be cancelled. I promise you and every reader on this forum.................if this country shuts down again, the next recession will make 2008 look like a joke. According to some financial experts, our economy is already a bubble waiting to pop. Covid could be the needle that does it.  

I sincerely understand your concern. People going to die from Covid, just like they do from the flu. The only difference is that instead of 1 death, there will be 3. That's a big number, I get that. But is it worth total financial devastation? That's the question we have to ask ourselves. It's kind of like voting for the President. Fifty percent will go one way and fifty percent will go the other. So which is right? I reside on the side of re-opening our economy...........including sports. 

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9 minutes ago, BTF said:

I think we have to move forward. We are already trillions in dept as a country. Another shutdown will make recovery impossible no matter who is in charge after November.

I still think we let the parents, coaches, kids, and fans decide. We all know the risks. No one will force a kid to play. No one will force a coach to coach. No one will force a fan to attend. 

I saw this coming. Football is the money sport for most schools at the high school and college level. Not having a season will be absolutely devastating financially. Start the season and go from there. If it get's out of hand the season can always be cancelled. I promise you and every reader on this forum.................if this country shuts down again, the next recession will make 2008 look like a joke. According to some financial experts, our economy is already a bubble waiting to pop. Covid could be the needle that does it.  

I sincerely understand your concern. People going to die from Covid, just like they do from the flu. The only difference is that instead of 1 death, there will be 3. That's a big number, I get that. But is it worth total financial devastation? That's the question we have to ask ourselves. It's kind of like voting for the President. Fifty percent will go one way and fifty percent will go the other. So which is right? I reside on the side of re-opening our economy...........including sports. 

I think you’ve stated the issues very well. My only disagreement with what you said is the part about “I still think we let the parents, coaches, kids, and fans decide.“ As we have discussed in other contexts, the freedom to decide is largely a fable in kids that age. Peer pressure makes the notion of free choice illusory.

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6 hours ago, Bobref said:

It is now a virtual lock that we will have high school football this Fall. Post your comments, observations, hopes, fears, etc., as we try to find the “new normal.”

Observation: there is no possible way the high school football season can proceed safely. The pros and NCAA make a better case for the return to competition, since the cornerstone of their guidance is frequent and thorough testing of even asymptomatic individuals coupled with isolation protocols. Yet several colleges have already suspended their summer programs because of large numbers of positives. There won’t be any such testing at the high school level.  If you doubt it, read this article by former Munster High School Trainer John Doherty. https://www.nwitimes.com/sports/sports-medicine-even-athletes-must-be-vigilant-to-ravages-of-covid-19/article_1c678744-361d-5ce9-8baa-e37e76a39f63.html He quotes Dan Slotar, a fellowship-trained infectious disease specialist, as follows:

“I’ve been an advocate for reentry and reopening of society in general but with certain caveats,” he said. “Some sports are easier to contemplate restarting without the need for as aggressive testing as professional athletes have the luxury of access to. So there is obviously going to be a spectrum. Cross country and golf are one extreme and wrestling would be the other extreme. I would be hesitant about contact sports like football or even basketball without testing. I don’t how that can be addressed on the high school level.” (emphasis supplied)

Comment: the return to competition is driven almost wholly by economics. The IHSAA got no revenue from the boy’s basketball tournament. They miss the boy’s football tournament and they’re going to be bankrupt. Schools are in the same boat. Without that revenue, athletic departments are simply unable to function. So, I hope we have a great season. But don’t kid yourself. People are going to die who would not have died otherwise. I hope it’s worth it.

 

I am starting to think we won't have a season, if we do.. I see it being cancelled at some point. 

I hope i'm wrong... . July will be the big test imo. 

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I will be curious to see how each district handles things like a player or multiple players on a team becoming infected. I am thinking we could pin a topic as plans become solidified. 

One question I have that I can see the pros and cons to; should the IHSAA/DOE set the standards? For what a point a program gets to as far as the number of players (or even percentage of the team/coaches) that get infected before suspending the season? 

Which brings up another issue..........what could happen if multiple coaches get infected within a close time frame? 

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2 hours ago, Temptation said:

But can said player go out for a hamburger with his grandparents after the game?

Sure. Their choice. 

4 hours ago, WWFan said:

My hopes is that people can be adults and do what's best for them. If corna scares you then do your part and don't associate yourself. There is 0 anyone can do to prevent this 100%. Is just not going to happen. If your fan and worried about the spread then stay home and don't go. Make sure all the players understand the risk and if they choose not to play then that's OK. If being a ref worries you....take time away until you're comfortable. Nobody has to do this. But shall you decide you want to then do what you can to minimize the spread. It won't be prevented. 

Im sure this thread will end up locked as they all have and I hate it always gets political but people have to take care of themselves and if you're worried dont put yourself in a position to be around people unless its mandatory. If it is then wear a mask, social distance, and bring sanitizer. Do what you can.

I recently went back to work at a casino and everyday are 100s of people who are 80% the high risk and 0 of them care. They pull their mask off or down the moment they can. They care more about not being able to smoke then social distancing. I personally am not worried about catching it and do know the part about not having symptoms and possibly passing it at work, but again....they arent trying to stop themselves from getting it. 

If you don't agree that is OK. I respect your side of it. Im not going to argue points about it. This is MY opinion. I hope a vaccine comes soon and we can get back to arguing about city speed because at this point it would be 100% better then it becoming political or arguing over freedoms. Everyone stay safe and take care of yourself. I hope this season is better then most expect. 

Great post. 

2 hours ago, BTF said:

I guess that would up to the grandparents. I wouldn't recommend it. That age bracket has another set of rules. If I'm over 65, I'm probably watching the game on TV.

Another great post. 

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I believe that far down the road, this period of time we are living in  now will become known as "The Big Correction."

Every part of world and American society have been impacted, and ultimately downsized

A correction to the norm was needed.

We wont know the full scope of its impact for several years,  but we are deeply in the grips of it right now.

Hold on to what you've got and try to maintain your place in the pecking order.

A small minority will leverage Coronavirus and realize personal gain.  The majority will see their situation decline.

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Bobref said:

You might find this interesting, but I am not one of those that is against a return to competition. I would just like to hear someone in authority tell it like it really is. Something like this:

”Yes, we have a plan for return to competition. We understand that by resuming high school football we will almost certainly experience increasing positives, despite the fact that our return to competition guidelines attempt to minimize that.Some kids will get sick. Some will transmit the virus to others, including the vulnerable and, as a result, some people will be hospitalized, and the odds are that some will die. However, we believe on balance that a return to high school football provides value to society that exceeds the likely downside. Therefore, we will be playing this Fall.”

Isn’t that what’s really happening?

 

5 hours ago, WWFan said:

My hopes is that people can be adults and do what's best for them. If corna scares you then do your part and don't associate yourself. There is 0 anyone can do to prevent this 100%. Is just not going to happen. If your fan and worried about the spread then stay home and don't go. Make sure all the players understand the risk and if they choose not to play then that's OK. If being a ref worries you....take time away until you're comfortable. Nobody has to do this. But shall you decide you want to then do what you can to minimize the spread. It won't be prevented. 

Im sure this thread will end up locked as they all have and I hate it always gets political but people have to take care of themselves and if you're worried dont put yourself in a position to be around people unless its mandatory. If it is then wear a mask, social distance, and bring sanitizer. Do what you can.

I recently went back to work at a casino and everyday are 100s of people who are 80% the high risk and 0 of them care. They pull their mask off or down the moment they can. They care more about not being able to smoke then social distancing. I personally am not worried about catching it and do know the part about not having symptoms and possibly passing it at work, but again....they arent trying to stop themselves from getting it. 

If you don't agree that is OK. I respect your side of it. Im not going to argue points about it. This is MY opinion. I hope a vaccine comes soon and we can get back to arguing about city speed because at this point it would be 100% better then it becoming political or arguing over freedoms. Everyone stay safe and take care of yourself. I hope this season is better then most expect. 

Both very good posts and my thoughts exactly. I also completely understand those who feel we are crazy for thinking about playing football. I don't agree with them, but I respect their perspective. We are seeing a large spike in other regions of the country, but for the most part it's young people getting infected and some of the rise is due to increased testing. With the exception of a couple cities it doesn't appear the hospitals are being overwhelmed yet. That could change. I assume that means many of these positives are asymptomatic or mild symptoms. That could still impact a team by making players unavailable for a game, but the risk of serious illness is less.

The most common argument is what happens if they get infected in practice and then infect their grandparents. If a player is concerned about that he/she should probably not play or stay as far away from those grandparents as possible.

One thing I will add is no coach, players, official or others who choose not to participate should not be negatively affected going forward. If Bud Wright decides to not coach this year for his personal safety, he should be able to return next year with no questions asked. If an official decides not to officiate this year his/her rating for next year shouldn't be impacted. If a season ticket holder for the Colts or Notre Dame chooses not to renew this year for personal safety reasons, he/she should not lose their season tickets for the following year.

I hope the IHSAA does decide to move forward with Fall sports, but if they choose to cancel the season I would completely respect that decision even if I don't agree with it.

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7 hours ago, DannEllenwood said:

Sure. Their choice. 

Great post. 

Another great post. 

Agree on all accounts but a DAMN tough choice for an adolescent to make (as @Bobref alluded to)...

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16 hours ago, Bobref said:

Comment: the return to competition is driven almost wholly by economics. The IHSAA got no revenue from the boy’s basketball tournament. They miss the boy’s football tournament and they’re going to be bankrupt. Schools are in the same boat. Without that revenue, athletic departments are simply unable to function. So, I hope we have a great season. But don’t kid yourself. People are going to die who would not have died otherwise. I hope it’s worth it.

 

I have to disagree, basketball sectionals were played, individual schools completed their BB season, at least the revenue generating part. With spring sports being shut down, money losers at most schools, I would guess most athletic departments are entering the fall in decent shape. Losing Football season could be devastating for many schools and certainly the IHSAA. 

As someone who supervises travel sport events, I can tell you there is currently little to no concern regarding the virus in the events I’ve been at the last three weeks with the patrons at the events I’ve been at. And what little concern there was when we began the weekend of the 12 has quickly disappeared. I would also argue some of the restrictions imposed has been counterproductive in my opinion. But they’re government regulations, no common sense is allowed.

 

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2 hours ago, Temptation said:

Agree on all accounts but a DAMN tough choice for an adolescent to make (as @Bobref alluded to)...

I was referring to the grandparents choice. 

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From everything I’ve heard so far, temperature checks will be a daily thing. Only if kids have a fever will they be made to get tested. As we’ve seen with all the college athletes that have tested positive, very few if any have any symptoms at all. The chances a Hs kid even has a fever and has to get checked are pretty slim. I think we all agree at some point a Hs kid will test positive but I don’t think it’s going to get crazy where the season will need to be shutdown. I do worry about the high risk group but they’ll need to try their best to stay away until we have a vaccine.

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12 hours ago, Temptation said:

That’s my biggest issue with this thing.  Are we legitimately asking folks (teachers, coaches, players) to put their social lives on hold in favor of their career/sport?

The kids will be fine.

I taught my classes online last quarter. As long as my students have access to an Internet connection and a Chromebook, they will learn and I will teach. The primary purpose of school is learning after all.

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11 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

I taught my classes online last quarter. As long as my students have access to an Internet connection and a Chromebook, they will learn and I will teach. The primary purpose of school is learning after all.

No doubt.  I did the same but in person instruction from trained professional educators still remains the best method of your stated purpose, not to mention the importance socially that school provides.

This pandemic has absolutely wrecked many families in my district, which was already struggling.  Those two variables you spoke of (an internet connection and a chrome book) are not universal across all districts and demographics.

 With many parents and guardians returning to work, sending their children back to school in person is a necessity.

All that being said, based on parent surveys, the leaders in my district expect 15-20 percent of families to take advantage of remote learning options that we are offering.

 

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1 hour ago, Temptation said:

Still not easy.

Not really. It’s their choice. 

About eating though. It’s odd. For example on my southwest flight, we were informed to wear masks at all times except while eating and drinking. So there’s always that option. The “virus” seems to know how to take a break when people are eating and drinking. Beats me. 

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