Mascots/nicknames

[Irishman]

I have never really been a fan of the nickname changes, save one. One has stood far above the others as being so politically incorrect, that I have thought for years now, even as a teenager, that it should be changed. Now the organization is finally taking serious consideration to do so. 
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1279067390198927360?s=21

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Irishman said:

I have never really been a fan of the nickname changes, save one. One has stood far above the others as being so politically incorrect, that I have thought for years now, even as a teenager, that it should be changed. Now the organization is finally taking serious consideration to do so. 
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1279067390198927360?s=21

The cancel culture never stops...brace yourself Kansas City CHIEFS fans...you’re next.

[Irishman]

4 minutes ago, Temptation said:

The cancel culture never stops...brace yourself Kansas City CHIEFS fans...you’re next.

HUGE difference between the terms chiefs and redskins. Sorry it's not more obvious. I mean, if redskins is no big deal, let's start using the terms blackskins, yellowskins, and brownskins. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Irishman said:

HUGE difference between the terms chiefs and redskins. Sorry it's not more obvious. I mean, if redskins is no big deal, let's start using the terms blackskins, yellowskins, and brownskins. 

Oh, I agree and actually agree that Redskins should be changed.  Hell, it should have been a LONG TIME AGO.

But why now?  Odd timing?

Nah, FedEx reads the writing on the wall.  Silence isn’t good enough these days.  Get ahead of the story before you BECOME the story.

Every time the “woke culture” scores a victory, they feel empowered and move on to the next thing.  It will never stop.

[Irishman]

Just now, Temptation said:

Oh, I agree and actually agree that Redskins should be changed.  Hell, it should have been a LONG TIME AGO.

But why now?  Odd timing?

Nah, FedEx reads the writing on the wall.  Silence isn’t good enough these days.  Get ahead of the story before you BECOME the story.

Every time the “woke culture” scores a victory, they feel empowered and move on to the next thing.  It will never stop.

ok...thanks for clarifying. I went on the assumption that you wanted to just keep the name as is. Asking why now is a fair question. I know a couple of the networks have just been referring to them as Washington, and have not referred to the nickname. This did become a heated topic several years go, but for whatever reasons, died down.To me, it's a better late than never thing. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Irishman said:

ok...thanks for clarifying. I went on the assumption that you wanted to just keep the name as is. Asking why now is a fair question. I know a couple of the networks have just been referring to them as Washington, and have not referred to the nickname. This did become a heated topic several years go, but for whatever reasons, died down.To me, it's a better late than never thing. 

I just hope the “Washington” part gets to stay.

After all, everyone knows...

[Irishman]

Just now, Temptation said:

I just hope the “Washington” part gets to stay.

After all, everyone knows...

Someone shared a video story with me, I will have to find it. But it had monuments and statues in certain categories as far as "should this be changed or removed?" The ones it determined should stay were the forefathers, and people who helped build this Republic. Anyone that opposed it, regardless of their reasoning, or anyone who brought a level of shame (Custer was an example), should be removed. It was interesting to see. 

[Guest]

Next up:  The Cleveland Indians...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Temptation said:

Next up:  The Cleveland Indians...

In the on deck circle:  The Kansas City Chiefs, Cleveland Browns, Atlanta Braves, and Notre Dame “Fighting” Irish...

[Bobref]

2 hours ago, Temptation said:

In the on deck circle:  The Kansas City Chiefs, Cleveland Browns, Atlanta Braves, and Notre Dame “Fighting” Irish...

Bite your tongue.

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Bite your tongue.

The Notre Dame Shamrocks?

[Irishman]

Cleveland Browns will stay. As far as the Fighting Irish....it actually was a derogatory term. Union soldiers made fun of the Irish units because they did as much fighting among each other in camp as they did fighting the confederates. 😀 There was a lot of drinking involved too. lol

UND did copyright the full nickname Fighting Irish and about 15 years ago, forced schools like Cathedral to drop the Fighting from their nicknames. Several schools around the country had to drop Irish from their nickname as well, and get rid of the leprechaun as a mascot. Cathedral was given more leeway because they were the first prep school the Order of St. Joseph started and ran along with ND. Plus, there is some controversy over the origins of the mascot. The discussion over the nickname is clear though. Cathedral used the name Fighting Irish while ND was still the Ramblers. 

[Guest]

Need to get rid of the Red Sox and White Sox too huh?  😉 

[AG]

22 hours ago, Temptation said:

Oh, I agree and actually agree that Redskins should be changed.  Hell, it should have been a LONG TIME AGO.

But why now?  Odd timing?

Nah, FedEx reads the writing on the wall.  Silence isn’t good enough these days.  Get ahead of the story before you BECOME the story.

Every time the “woke culture” scores a victory, they feel empowered and move on to the next thing.  It will never stop.

It's called change and it's inevitable. 

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, AG said:

It's called change and it's inevitable. 

It’s called caving to pressure and staying ahead of the story so you don’t become the story.  The cancel culture has its sights on anything and everything.  Such cowardice.

[AG]

9 minutes ago, Temptation said:

It’s called caving to pressure and staying ahead of the story so you don’t become the story.  The cancel culture has its sights on anything and everything.  Such cowardice.

Are you unable to see your own biases, racism, and ignorance?

[gonzoron]

2 minutes ago, AG said:

Are you unable to see your own biases, racism, and ignorance?

He's mad because he can't find a statue of George III.

https://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/media_player?mets_filename=evm00003098mets.xml#:~:text=Pulling Down the Statue of,III in New York City.

Edited July 4, 2020 by gonzoron

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, AG said:

Are you unable to see your own biases, racism, and ignorance?

Read above.  I’m actually on board with the changes but the timing of them is what makes me skeptical.  Why now?
 

The Redskin nickname has been around for 87 years.

The Indians for 105.

It’s simple.  The “woke culture” is applying the pressure.  Nothing is safe.  It’d have been a much more genuine gesture had it been changed before but the current climate of the country makes everything a target.

Hell, this came up 7 years ago and Dan Snyder was interviewed and ADAMANT that the nickname would NEVER change, yet here we are.

 

 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Guest

[gonzoron]

6 minutes ago, Temptation said:

 I’m actually on board with the changes

So you are part of the "woke culture". Got it.

[AG]

18 minutes ago, Temptation said:

Read above.  I’m actually on board with the changes but the timing of them is what makes me skeptical.  Why now?
 

The Redskin nickname has been around for 87 years.

The Indians for 105.

It’s simple.  The “woke culture” is applying the pressure.  Nothing is safe.  It’d have been a much more genuine gesture had it been changed before but the current climate of the country makes everything a target.

Hell, this came up 7 years ago and Dan Snyder was interviewed and ADAMANT that the nickname would NEVER change, yet here we are.

 

 

 

Why is it a bad thing that "woke culture" is causing bad things to change? "Oh no, racist and offensive things are being destroyed!!!" 

[gonzoron]

27 minutes ago, Temptation said:

The “woke culture” is applying the pressure.  Nothing is safe

If it wasn't for "woke culture" there would be no United States of America

If it wasn't for "woke culture" there would still be slave owners in the United States.

If it wasn't for "woke culture", Russia would still be ruled by a tsar.

If it wasn't for "woke culture" we would all be speaking German and praising der Fuhrer

If it wasn't for "woke culture" The U.S.S.R. would still exist.

If it wasn't for "woke culture" there would be no Jews. 

This would be your perfect world??

[Obi-Wan]

On ‎7‎/‎4‎/‎2020 at 3:19 PM, gonzoron said:

If it wasn't for "woke culture" there would be no United States of America

If it wasn't for "woke culture" there would still be slave owners in the United States.

If it wasn't for "woke culture", Russia would still be ruled by a tsar.

If it wasn't for "woke culture" we would all be speaking German and praising der Fuhrer

If it wasn't for "woke culture" The U.S.S.R. would still exist.

If it wasn't for "woke culture" there would be no Jews. 

This would be your perfect world??

Sorry I can't help myself at this... So woke culture worked twice in Russia. Once to tear down a monarchy and then again to tear down communism?

[gonzoron]

24 minutes ago, Obi-Wan said:

Sorry I can't help myself at this... So woke culture worked twice in Russia. Once to tear down a monarchy and then again to tear down communism?

That's correct. Ask Mr. Gorbachev.

[Guest]

On 7/4/2020 at 1:25 PM, Temptation said:

It’s called caving to pressure and staying ahead of the story so you don’t become the story.  The cancel culture has its sights on anything and everything.  Such cowardice.

Yes sir. 

I wonder when the cancel culture and PETA are going to go after Ronny’s huskies?  

[Bobref]

For those that see what the Redskins are doing, and wonder how long before the thought police come for the “Fighting Irish,” read this article on how that nickname came to be. And the answer to your question is Notre Dame will be known as the Fighting Irish until the sun burns out.

https://247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Article/How-The-Fighting-Irish-Got-Their-Name-149026778/

How The Fighting Irish Got Their Name

ByPHIL HOUK Jul 11, 2:00 PM 

Those who believe Notre Dame’s “Fighting Irish” nickname to be a denigration of the Irish people do not know the historical facts. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Notre Dame’s Fighting Irish nickname is a tribute to an enduring relationship based upon respect and affection.

So how did Notre Dame’s athletic teams acquire their unique and proud nickname the Fighting Irish? The history of Notre Dame reveals a rich and respectful connection to Ireland and the Irish people that is so engrained that over time, the University chose to honor that history with the iconic nickname.

Four of the six Religious who founded Notre Dame on November 26, 1842 with French priest Edward Sorin were Irish. The student body has always had strong Irish representation. Most of Father Sorin’s successors at the post of Notre Dame President have been of Irish descent. But the history of Notre Dame-Irish connections goes much deeper than that.

On July 2nd, 1863, Notre Dame was 20 years old, and on a Gettysburg battlefield known as The Wheatfield, Army Chaplin William Corby, a Notre Dame professor and future President of the University, performed an inspiring act of faith and mercy.

Amidst significant enemy threat, Father Corby mounted a large rock before the men of the Union's legendary Fighting Irish Brigade. Legend has it that the Fighting Irish name, by which that group came to be known, was bestowed by General Robert E. Lee. Lee. as the story goes, greatly admired and respected their fighting prowess.

As Father Corby summoned the group of about 500, made up of predominantly Irish-Catholic immigrants, they knelt before him. First, Father Corby shouted the prayers of general absolution to the soldiers. He then reminded them of their duties and exhorted them not to waver as they upheld their flag.

Officers later reported they had never seen such an inspiring scene.

Seconds later, the men were sent to the rescue of the crumbling Union flank. Within minutes of the brutal and bloody fighting, a third of the soldiers had become casualties, but the attack of the Fighting Irish brigade bought precious time for the Union.

A monument to this event stands at the site of Father Corby's act. An identical one known as "Fair Catch Corby" stands on the Notre Dame campus. Of 1,328 monuments that have been built at Gettysburg, Father Corby is the only Chaplin to be so honored. Corby, after serving as University President, oversaw the building of the Notre Dame Grotto.

In 1916, the Irish freedom fighter and later President of Ireland, Eamon de Valera, visited Notre Dame. de Valera had been part of the 1916 Easter Rebellion against the English in Ireland. After being imprisoned and then granted amnesty, de Valera was arrested by the English again. He later escaped to America, and after attracting a stadium record 60,000 at Fenway Park, he was welcomed as a hero at Notre Dame on October 15, 1919. At that time, admiration for and solidarity with the Irish people by the Notre Dame community reached a zenith.

During the early 1900s, stereotypes and ethnic slurs were frequently expressed against Catholics and the Irish in the press. Because Notre Dame was largely populated by Catholics -- many of them Irish -- its athletic teams were commonly referred to derisively as the Catholics, the Papists or the Dirty Irish.

During the Rockne years of Notre Dame Football, ND was also unofficially referred to as "the Rovers" or “the Ramblers.” That was because they were not in a conference and some Midwest teams simply refused to play them. It is likely that at least some of the difficulty in scheduling was the result of religious bigotry toward Catholics. So Notre Dame choose to "ramble" and "rove" far and wide to find good competition.

Football coaching legend Knute Rockne, who had a keen mind for promotion, engaged in public relations that played upon his Notre Dame team's humble roots and need to travel long distances to find competition. Some of the agents who had worked for the team used the words "the Fighting Irish" when engaging with the media.

These PR efforts particularly paid off in the 1920s when one of Rockne's former PR men, Francis Wallace, went to work for the New York Daily News and used the Fighting Irish moniker in his column.

There was also a time Notre Dame was known unofficially as the "Terriers." For many years, an Irish Terrier nicknamed "Clashmore Mike" could be found on the Notre Dame football sidelines.

In May of 1924, another event added to the Fighting Irish-Notre Dame connection.

According to historian Todd Tucker in the book Notre Dame vs. the Klan, Notre Dame students violently clashed with the anti-Catholic Ku Klux Klan who were demonstrating in South Bend that spring. The fact that the student body was heavily of Irish descent and that those students embraced the full inference of the words "the Fighting Irish" is apparent.

The power of the KKK was significant in the Hoosier State and at that time included control of the governor's office. According to the book, a weekend of clashes led by Notre Dame students helped bring an end to the KKK's political power in the State of Indiana.

So as early as the Civil War, Our Lady's University had a connection to the name Fighting Irish. And several examples suggest that the Fighting Irish nickname was born not out of derision or stereotype but as a noble tribute to heroism and bravery.

It all converged in 1927 when the Fighting Irish nickname came into common use. University President Rev. Matthew Walsh issued the following statement to the University community:

“The university authorities are in no way adverse to the name ‘Fighting Irish’ as applied to our athletic teams…I sincerely hope that we may always be worthy of the ideal embodied in the term ‘Fighting Irish.'"

Thus, the Fighting Irish identity of the University -- long a part of the university's esteemed fabric -- became official.

Today, Notre Dame's connections with Ireland continue. Twice in their history, -- 1996 and 2012 -- Notre Dame football has traveled to Dublin and played games against the Naval Academy. The plan in 2020 was for Notre Dame to play the Naval Academy in Dublin once again, only to have the game relocated to Annapolis, Md. due to the coronavirus pandemic.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Bobref