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Should we return to play on schedule?


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1 hour ago, DannEllenwood said:

Why’d you edit sport?  

just had "link ?" posted and added rest after quick search thats all....been busy and ask for link to make it quicker so thanks pal ! BTW mosquitoes are terrible tonight !!!

1 hour ago, wabashalwaysfights said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox35orlando.com/news/fox-35-investigates-florida-department-of-health-says-some-labs-have-not-reported-negative-covid-19-results.amp

Toward the bottom is a PDF with some data. I haven't looked through it all, but an educated guess would say that the chart posted here is in there somewhere. 

Apologies if this is the wrong link.

thanks !

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5 hours ago, Raven67 said:

You cant have your cake and eat it too. It was first responders and nurses time to step up in all of this....and they did and are..  now its the teachers turns to be the heroes.. and they are complaining about not being able to be in the pj's all day at home in front of a computer.. guess I hit a nerve with a few of you.. but its all over facebook.. there is a petition on Facebook made by Indiana teachers with a long list of unacheivable demands. Now I understand its not all of them. But its a very loud group. My wife and I can not afford to elearn again. We both work full-time with jobs that we can not adjust our schedule.. so what now? Go to a private school? Idk it's unreal.

I am a teacher. I do not know where you live. If I can be of any assistance should your schools choose not to open, please let me know. 

4 hours ago, Mayo77 said:

I went 3 houses down from mine july 3rd at a teachers house for party.   She is high school teacher and her husband did phenomenal job on the grill.    Great food all day, lots of drinks all day, and not one peep from her that there was more than 30 people in her back yard.   Fast forward to monday where on a tv stations Facebook page pronouncing how scared she was to go back into the classroom.   We have to get these kids back in school.  I'm not trying to demean teachers but I've seen first hand the agenda of some of them and I do not like it.   

Pathetic behavior by that person. 

Keep speaking up parents. 

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1 hour ago, Irishman said:

Teachers turn??? lol so you have not been paying attention? Teachers shifted in just a matter of a few days classroom instruction to complete online learning. Your lack of respect for the profession is duly noted. 

No link to this facebook petition? No details about what is unachievable? 

Yeah these are unreal times. So, what happens when one of your kids gets sick and cannot go to school? As if you two are the only ones in that spot and that should be the driving force behind schools being open? Here's a hint, if the public schools in a given area do e learning again, private schools will be as well. 

A day or 2 is NOT the same as an entire quarter. 

Dont be so sure on that private school notion. 

1 hour ago, Irishman said:

Teachers turn??? lol so you have not been paying attention? Teachers shifted in just a matter of a few days classroom instruction to complete online learning. Your lack of respect for the profession is duly noted. 

No link to this facebook petition? No details about what is unachievable? 

Yeah these are unreal times. So, what happens when one of your kids gets sick and cannot go to school? As if you two are the only ones in that spot and that should be the driving force behind schools being open? Here's a hint, if the public schools in a given area do e learning again, private schools will be as well. 

You said it yourself in another post, it’s a local decision to stay open. Maybe the private schools have different protocols in place. 

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1 hour ago, Irishman said:

OH MY GOD....call out the National Guard...teachers had a cookout over the Summer. 30 people in a backyard that someone knows (and are adults who would know not to attend if they are infected or feeling symptoms) is a COMPLETELY different thing than 30 kids in a classroom from varying backgrounds that parents are likely sending even if a kid is sick. And having those 30 kids sitting in a confined classroom for a full day is significantly different than a backyard cookout. Did not think that would have to be clarified on a forum like this, but apparently it does. 

Yeah, you did not try to demean teachers lol....hilarious. 

You just proved a MAJOR FACT here Irish. EVERYTHING begins at home. That is AWFUL parenting to send a kid to school that is not feeling well. Especially in today’s world. 

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2 minutes ago, DannEllenwood said:

A day or 2 is NOT the same as an entire quarter. 

Dont be so sure on that private school notion. 

You said it yourself in another post, it’s a local decision to stay open. Maybe the private schools have different protocols in place. 

The decisions are being made mostly by County Health Departments. So, they will be required to follow suit......after all, they do get tax dollars now. 

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Just now, DannEllenwood said:

You just proved a MAJOR FACT here Irish. EVERYTHING begins at home. That is AWFUL parenting to send a kid to school that is not feeling well. Especially in today’s world. 

I agree completely, but you and I have seen it often, right? 

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2 minutes ago, Irishman said:

I agree completely, but you and I have seen it often, right? 

Yep, but not at my son’s private Christian school he attends. 

2 minutes ago, Irishman said:

The decisions are being made mostly by County Health Departments. So, they will be required to follow suit......after all, they do get tax dollars now. 

Fair points. But what if someone sends their child to a private school in a different county?  

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5 hours ago, Irishman said:

I focused on teachers because the post I initially replied to did.

I think there is a HUGE misconception here about a few things. One; there has been a LOT of concern among teachers about the plans for starting the year. You are just now hearing about that because it wasn't news back in April or May. The start of the school year and the development of more specific plans are news items now. 

I don't think comparing mailmen and grocery store workers is quite the same as schools opening. 

Trends may be down, but the July 4th numbers are starting to show up now. We will see. 

There are two chicken/egg or Catch-22 (whichever you prefer) issues at play.

Teachers are rightfully upset about the lack of clear direction from most administrations about how they will handle re-opening schools.  But administrators feel they have to always leave uncertainty in any communication, because things change so rapidly. We can't give you a plan, because we don't know all the details.  And we can't give you details until we have a plan. 

The other problem is the rush to start school.  Honestly, I have never understood the need to start classes July 30th or August 5/6 like here in Evansville. If ever there was a year to go back to the late August (heck, even after Labor day like most of the east coast) start dates it would be this year.  The downfall of that is most cases in SW Indiana can currently be traced to people who have traveled outside of the state to Alabama, Florida, Texas, etc. and then returned after a week's vacation.  I'm afraid the ill-advised travel won't stop until school starts.

Based on what I've read/seen I think NoName County School Corp should announce "School will re-open  August 5th for students who have not traveled out of state after July 26.  If you have traveled out of state, you are welcome to join us August 10th."   I don't know the how/if you could enforce such a thing or even if it would be effective.  I would say the same of teachers as well, though.  Based on the studies I have read, elementary teachers are more at risk from contracting from a fellow teacher, custodian, parent, administrator, etc. than one of their students.  So the same travel modifications should apply to them, which would be met with plenty of resistance I'm sure.     

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1 minute ago, DannEllenwood said:

Yep, but not at my son’s private Christian school he attends. 

Fair points. 

I don't want people to misconstrue all I am saying. I would LOVE nothing more than to have everything go back to where we were a year ago; as if everything is fine. But I am also realistic enough to know there are too many questions and concerns that really cannot be addressed at this point. 

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1 minute ago, oldtimeqb said:

There are two chicken/egg or Catch-22 (whichever you prefer) issues at play.

Teachers are rightfully upset about the lack of clear direction from most administrations about how they will handle re-opening schools.  But administrators feel they have to always leave uncertainty in any communication, because things change so rapidly. We can't give you a plan, because we don't know all the details.  And we can't give you details until we have a plan. 

The other problem is the rush to start school.  Honestly, I have never understood the need to start classes July 30th or August 5/6 like here in Evansville. If ever there was a year to go back to the late August (heck, even after Labor day like most of the east coast) start dates it would be this year.  The downfall of that is most cases in SW Indiana can currently be traced to people who have traveled outside of the state to Alabama, Florida, Texas, etc. and then returned after a week's vacation.  I'm afraid the ill-advised travel won't stop until school starts.

Based on what I've read/seen I think NoName County School Corp should announce "School will re-open  August 5th for students who have not traveled out of state after July 26.  If you have traveled out of state, you are welcome to join us August 10th."   I don't know the how/if you could enforce such a thing or even if it would be effective.  I would say the same of teachers as well, though.  Based on the studies I have read, elementary teachers are more at risk from contracting from a fellow teacher, custodian, parent, administrator, etc. than one of their students.  So the same travel modifications should apply to them, which would be met with plenty of resistance I'm sure.     

I am blessed that my Corp that I work for have been sooooo awesome with all communication. They are doing great. 

1 minute ago, Irishman said:

I don't want people to misconstrue all I am saying. I would LOVE nothing more than to have everything go back to where we were a year ago; as if everything is fine. But I am also realistic enough to know there are too many questions and concerns that really cannot be addressed at this point. 

Irish

Love ya man, but the science is there. The science says open schools.

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11 hours ago, Irishman said:

Teachers turn??? lol so you have not been paying attention? Teachers shifted in just a matter of a few days classroom instruction to complete online learning. Your lack of respect for the profession is duly noted. 

No link to this facebook petition? No details about what is unachievable? 

Yeah these are unreal times. So, what happens when one of your kids gets sick and cannot go to school? As if you two are the only ones in that spot and that should be the driving force behind schools being open? Here's a hint, if the public schools in a given area do e learning again, private schools will be as well. 

Here's your link https://www.change.org/p/eric-j-holcomb-indiana-for-the-safe-return-to-schools?recruiter=909614038&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial&recruited_by_id=e70cf530-de31-11e8-ad1b-b11cd2c2db4a&utm_content=fht-23371659-en-us%3A1

I'm not sure why you think I have a lack of respect for teachers. I am just pointing out what I see. In fact I have a teaching degree, and I taught for years before I got into my profession now. You cant act like I'm being unfair. Teachers are demanding that they get to stay home. In my book they are essential workers. I am an essential worker and so is my wife. If I would have told my work that I would not deal with a covid + patient, they would have sent me packing. Why all of the sudden to teachers get to demand things, like staying at home. If we elearn my wife will have to drop hrs at work. Now she makes 43.76 an hour. How is that fair at all? Teachers demands will hurt families more and more as they get to sit home and get full pay.. petitiom says hazard pay?!?!  Hahaha.. why didn't I get that? My wife? We both cared for COVID positive patients. But they want it because they can't stay home. Its unreal.

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1 minute ago, Raven67 said:

Here's your link https://www.change.org/p/eric-j-holcomb-indiana-for-the-safe-return-to-schools?recruiter=909614038&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=facebook&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial&recruited_by_id=e70cf530-de31-11e8-ad1b-b11cd2c2db4a&utm_content=fht-23371659-en-us%3A1

I'm not sure why you think I have a lack of respect for teachers. I am just pointing out what I see. In fact I have a teaching degree, and I taught for years before I got into my profession now. You cant act like I'm being unfair. Teachers are demanding that they get to stay home. In my book they are essential workers. I am an essential worker and so is my wife. If I would have told my work that I would not deal with a covid + patient, they would have sent me packing. Why all of the sudden to teachers get to demand things, like staying at home. If we elearn my wife will have to drop hrs at work. Now she makes 43.76 an hour. How is that fair at all? Teachers demands will hurt families more and more as they get to sit home and get full pay.. petitiom says hazard pay?!?!  Hahaha.. why didn't I get that? My wife? We both cared for COVID positive patients. But they want it because they can't stay home. Its unreal.

Maybe the comment about them complaining because they can’t be in their pj’s all day has something to do with showing a lack of respect? 
You are being unfair. Teachers are NOT demanding they stay home. That is an ignorant statement and take. Asking to guarantee certain safety measures are put in place is not even close to wanting to stay home. 
 

All the remaining parts as well just further show your complete lack of respect for the profession as well. 

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14 hours ago, dazed and confused said:

do you have a link or something to verify the validity of these charts ? 

I believe the charts are based on what was reported. I wish the reporters would have dug in deeper. My guess is these particular agencies mostly just reported positive cases and not just tests. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt to say it wasn't intentional. So if they reported 98% positive and 521 cases, but are now saying they only had a 9.4% positive rate, they probably mis-reported the total number tested. If that's true the case numbers are still accurate the percentage positive is off. The other possibility is the number tested accidentally also got fed to into the positive column. If that's true then the number of cases will be lower.

There is a common term in data analysis...garbage in garbage out. Big data is complicated and accurately reporting on it is complicated. This is a glaring example of that. Things get classified wrong, queries are inaccurate, human error if forms are being completed manually. Just because the numbers are wrong doesn't mean it was intentional. Investigate and determine the cause. My guess is ultimately this was a system or process issue and not some intent to mislead.

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6 minutes ago, wabashalwaysfights said:

Nor would I...

I would not either but just like anything, it’s the minority of folks who unfortunately give the others a bad name at times.  They don’t speak for everyone.

I have plenty of examples on both sides of the fence here.  I can also see both sides of the argument.

Many of the precautions that have been put in place simply are not realistic but I still am in favor of going back.  As I have mentioned in other threads, this shut down has destroyed many families in my district and they need to return to structure.

At our school board meeting the other night, I took a generic pulse of the room. Most of the parents were in favor of going back, they were just there to see the plan. Many (not all) of the teachers In attendance displayed body language that indicated they were on the opposite side

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52 minutes ago, Temptation said:

At our school board meeting the other night, I took a generic pulse of the room. Most of the parents were in favor of going back, they were just there to see the plan. Many (not all) of the teachers In attendance displayed body language that indicated they were on the opposite side

They are the ones most likely at risk. That's understandable. There are a lot of studies out there, but the one I believe says students (especially elementary) are very unlikely to contract and/or spread the disease especially to adults. But there is still a risk between the adult staff.

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4 minutes ago, JustRules said:

They are the ones most likely at risk. That's understandable. There are a lot of studies out there, but the one I believe says students (especially elementary) are very unlikely to contract and/or spread the disease especially to adults. But there is still a risk between the adult staff.

The problem is when those the same adult staff (the minority as I already mentioned) post pictures on social media of large gatherings and “play dates” all summer long.

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49 minutes ago, JustRules said:

They are the ones most likely at risk. That's understandable. There are a lot of studies out there, but the one I believe says students (especially elementary) are very unlikely to contract and/or spread the disease especially to adults. But there is still a risk between the adult staff.

That is my biggest concern - teacher to teacher spread.  Years ago, I spent 3 months as a substitute teacher in multiple schools at every level - elementary, middle, and high school. I was considering going back to become a teacher through a masters/transition program.  What turned me off were the discussions I overheard in every teacher's lounge I entered.  I can picture some teachers viewing the lounge as a 'safe space' and removing masks or other PPE to vent and exposing each other in the process.

*And just to clarify, I'm not knocking the teacher's lounge complaining either.  My last two employers have had lunch rooms and I've discovered the employee complaints are not unique to education.  I just had not encountered it prior to that time. 

  

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1 hour ago, Temptation said:

The problem is when those the same adult staff (the minority as I already mentioned) post pictures on social media of large gatherings and “play dates” all summer long.

Again; not the same thing at all compared to a classroom of 30 or more students; not even close to the same thing. 

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8 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Again; not the same thing at all compared to a classroom of 30 or more students; not even close to the same thing. 

The poster above mentioned the threat of teacher to teacher spread being the major concern so it pretty much is.

35 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

That is my biggest concern - teacher to teacher spread.  Years ago, I spent 3 months as a substitute teacher in multiple schools at every level - elementary, middle, and high school. I was considering going back to become a teacher through a masters/transition program.  What turned me off were the discussions I overheard in every teacher's lounge I entered.  I can picture some teachers viewing the lounge as a 'safe space' and removing masks or other PPE to vent and exposing each other in the process.

*And just to clarify, I'm not knocking the teacher's lounge complaining either.  My last two employers have had lunch rooms and I've discovered the employee complaints are not unique to education.  I just had not encountered it prior to that time. 

  

Haven’t eaten lunch in the teacher’s lounge in 3+ years and haven’t regretted it once.

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3 minutes ago, Temptation said:

The poster above mentioned the threat of teacher to teacher spread being the major concern so it pretty much is.

Adults gathered outside with no symptoms is NOT even close to the same thing as 30 kids in a confined space/classroom with who knows what for 7 hours a day 5 days a week is completely different. 

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