foxbat Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, dazed and confused said: cant dispute the 10 and under kids as pointed out in the article I provided earlier https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2020/07/18/young-people-most-likely-to-spread-coronavirus-at-home-large-study-finds/amp/ its the 10 to 19 years old that are concerning. Maybe you didn't catch that....I copied and pasted it for you.... see below The study found that young people, between the ages of 10 to 19, were not often the first in their household to show symptoms—but when they were, 18.6% of their contacts contracted the disease, which is more than any other age group. By contrast, children 9 years old and younger were the least likely group to spread coronavirus in their household, with 5.3% of their contacts—which represents three people—testing positive. Along with that, here's a link that @Irishman posted too about kids at camp in GA with infections. https://www.macon.com/news/coronavirus/article244158667.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazed and confused Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, foxbat said: Along with that, here's a link that @Irishman posted too about kids at camp in GA with infections. https://www.macon.com/news/coronavirus/article244158667.html wanted to upvote this but got this message.... Sorry, you cannot add any more reactions today. SO 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven67 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 What were the deaths in that group? Asking for a friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, Raven67 said: What were the deaths in that group? Asking for a friend. People focusing on the declining death rate as evidence that resuming “normalcy” is appropriate are looking at an incomplete picture. COVID 19 is not an “all or nothing” disease like influenza. You get the flu, you recover or, in a very small % of patients you die. There’s generally no in between. Increasingly, researchers are finding that is not the case with COVID 19. Although COVID 19 is many times more likely to kill you than the flu, researchers are now finding a disturbing rate of complications in recovered patients. The most serious appears to be some type of coagulopathy which causes blood clots to form, which can result in heart attacks, pulmonary emboli, or strokes, including strokes in very young people. There are also neurological and kidney complications, not to mention permanent lung scarring. So, the next time someone poo-poos COVID-19 because it “only” has a 1% fatality rate, keep in mind that the rate of those experiencing significant and potentially permanent health effects is many multiples of that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, Bobref said: People focusing on the declining death rate as evidence that resuming “normalcy” is appropriate are looking at an incomplete picture. COVID 19 is not an “all or nothing” disease like influenza. You get the flu, you recover or, in a very small % of patients you die. There’s generally no in between. Increasingly, researchers are finding that is not the case with COVID 19. Although COVID 19 is many times more likely to kill you than the flu, researchers are now finding a disturbing rate of complications in recovered patients. The most serious appears to be some type of coagulopathy which causes blood clots to form, which can result in heart attacks, pulmonary emboli, or strokes, including strokes in very young people. There are also neurological and kidney complications, not to mention permanent lung scarring. So, the next time someone poo-poos COVID-19 because it “only” has a 1% fatality rate, keep in mind that the rate of those experiencing significant and potentially permanent health effects is many multiples of that. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01891-8 Potential impact in triggering diabetes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howe Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Perhaps America should lock down all hospitals. Medical errors have been killing hundreds of thousands of Americans for decades. The third-leading cause of death in US most doctors don’t want you to know about A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000. Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer. Advocates are fighting back, pushing for greater legislation for patient safety. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, Howe said: Perhaps America should lock down all hospitals. Medical errors have been killing hundreds of thousands of Americans for decades. The third-leading cause of death in US most doctors don’t want you to know about A recent Johns Hopkins study claims more than 250,000 people in the U.S. die every year from medical errors. Other reports claim the numbers to be as high as 440,000. Medical errors are the third-leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer. Advocates are fighting back, pushing for greater legislation for patient safety. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/22/medical-errors-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html This post is intended for those who read @Howe’s post above, since there’s no use directing this to him. What @Howehas done here is propose a logical fallacy known commonly as a “tu quoque“ fallacy (Latin for “you also”). The tu quoque fallacy is an invalid attempt to discredit an opponent by answering criticism with criticism -- but never actually presenting a counterargument to the original disputed claim. Here @Howe answers the question of whether fear of COVID-19 should cause a cancellation of football with an “argument” that medical errors cause great harm, but we’re not shutting down the medical system as a result. Two different issues with virtually nothing in common. Merely deflection of the issue. Similar to “if we can put a man on the moon, why can’t we make a cereal box closure that actually works?” There are worthwhile points to be made on both sides of the issue. This isn’t one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howe Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bobref said: This post is intended for those who read @Howe’s post above, since there’s no use directing this to him. What @Howehas done here is propose a logical fallacy known commonly as a “tu quoque“ fallacy (Latin for “you also”). The tu quoque fallacy is an invalid attempt to discredit an opponent by answering criticism with criticism -- but never actually presenting a counterargument to the original disputed claim. Here @Howe answers the question of whether fear of COVID-19 should cause a cancellation of football with an “argument” that medical errors cause great harm, but we’re not shutting down the medical system as a result. Two different issues with virtually nothing in common. Merely deflection of the issue. Similar to “if we can put a man on the moon, why can’t we make a cereal box closure that actually works?” There are worthwhile points to be made on both sides of the issue. This isn’t one of them. No Bob. I'm confident some of the annual medical errors resulting in death have been attributed to death from coronavirus. Therefore people are basing decisions off of innaccurate data. Yesterday a fatal motorcycle crash was listed as death from coronavirus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Howe said: No Bob. I'm confident some of the annual medical errors resulting in death have been attributed to death from coronavirus. Therefore people are basing decisions off of innaccurate data. Yesterday a fatal motorcycle crash was listed as death from coronavirus. Now, I’m even more confused about your line of reasoning. I’m struggling to find something relevant to the issue in your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 34 minutes ago, Bobref said: Now, I’m even more confused about your line of reasoning. I’m struggling to find something relevant to the issue in your post. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldunclemark Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 56 minutes ago, TrojanDad said: How does one prove the exposure occurred at school first...then how does one prove that a particular person exposed someone in a higher risk group? Vaccines and treatments don't prevent and cure every strain on pneumonia or influenza for that matter. Couldn't I use your logic of liability for those disease states as well? Mortality rates for Covid don't exceed 1% until the 60 and above age group. Could we find an alternative to protect the higher risk age groups vs thinking that if we just teach on-line that solves the problem. Because we learned from last semester is that it doesn't. You probably cannot use pneumonia or influenza because they are known and accepted risks with existing treatments and vaccines. They also aren't tested for at school and also aren't part of a world wide pandemic. That's the second thing you're going to hear at the trial. . The first thing is that it is No. 1 responsibility of all schools is to keep kids safe. Above education and athletics. Keep them safe. Can anyone at any school do that with Covid right now.? I'm not a lawyer but......... "Sure, we knew Jimmy Quarterback tested positive but we didnt know what the virus would do to his girlfriend Susie Cheerleader or her friends Charlene and Lulabell (Jimmy and Susie go to a southern Indiana school)" is probably not a legal defense. Until there is a vaccine, a treatment or a cure, will parents accept FULL liability in writing for anything THIS all-new virus does to their son or anyone their son knows or doesn't know at school that he came in contact with?. Forever. Will any school board accept full liability for anything THIS all-new virus does to ANY student they know has tested positive or any other student that boy came in contact with.. It does not matter where the kid got the virus. He tested positive at the school. Mortality rates are irrelevant. There's about 20,000 teenagers in the eight school Duneland Athletic Conference. It only takes one at each school. And what does Covid do to those who 'recover'? And haven't there been cases of 'recovered' Covid victims testing positive again??? And does the school board know of any previously undetected pre-existing condition which would make Jimmy, Susie, Charlene, Lulabell or anybody else then come across more vulnerable to Covid? "We don't know. We cant say. We didn't have time to find out. We couldn't answer those questions." is probably also not a legal defense. See what I mean? What you and I want is a low priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howe Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 As I think about it, no one knows for sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 The Best is Yet to Come! Be well all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 20 minutes ago, DannEllenwood said: The Best is Yet to Come! Be well all! You, too! All I can say is that whole Covid-19 business is something we have never experienced in our lifetimes. Ever. There are many compelling arguments for football (and the overriding factor of school) to start like it always does, yet many contrary views have also been shared. Tough times we live in: who’s right, who’s wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Football Guru 25 Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 i just dont think things look good for upcoming season unfortunately....as much as i do want a season its very hard to imagine not having one!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 57 minutes ago, Football Guru 25 said: i just dont think things look good for upcoming season unfortunately....as much as i do want a season its very hard to imagine not having one!! It’s more than weird. I still work, some from home, some in a nearly empty office and have my normal responsibilities. But the though that there won’t be any football this fall is a weird one, and one I don’t want, but will have to take whatever comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 The Best is Yet to Come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, DannEllenwood said: The Best is Yet to Come! Geez, I would hope so. Because what has gone before is 💩. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superjay Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Play until you can't. Suspend, restart, play until you can't. Moving to spring is not the answer. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Bobref said: Geez, I would hope so. Because what has gone before is 💩. We are almost there. Keep fighting the good fight. The Best is Yet to Come. 😊 1 hour ago, Bobref said: Geez, I would hope so. Because what has gone before is 💩. See you tomorrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 6 hours ago, DannEllenwood said: We are almost there. Keep fighting the good fight. The Best is Yet to Come. 😊 See you tomorrow? I’ll be there. I’ll be the one with the mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Bobref said: I’ll be there. I’ll be the one with the mask. See you then. I won’t be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldunclemark Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 9 hours ago, superjay said: Play until you can't. Suspend, restart, play until you can't. Moving to spring is not the answer. Spring football skips over a lot of problems. The big one being that we may have a vaccine by February or March..... We also will have experience in the in-school Covid way of life. 12 schools up our way are suspended....as you are reading this. You would like spring football 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan32 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/07/20/opinion/listen-science-reopen-schools/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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