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How did Central and North Supplant Reitz and Castle?


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53 minutes ago, Moonshiners said:

I think that was before Levron. I believe Mac Jacobs was the running back then...he was a bad dude too. I want to say levron started at running back on varsity in 95 but I could be wrong. I agree with the randle el comment though. I was at IU when they were there and they were as exiting as it gets. They actually brought some fans in the stands.

I believe Mack graduated in 94, was 94 200 meters track state champ. 

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4 hours ago, Cappy said:

Technically 3A and 5A, I believe in 82 3A was the biggest class and 4A was introduced in 83.

Completely shocked me they didn't win SIAC in 94, don't remember Bosse winning it. Bosse lost in sectional, Castle wins state, and MD (who finished 3rd in SIAC) was state runner-up.

Whoops.  Yep, both were “big”school titles that included all of the current large 6A schools.  

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9 minutes ago, South Paw said:

This year they only have 1 middle school 7th grade team and 1 8th grade team.

Did the conference changes have anything to do with this change? At the middle school level both Castle North and South used to play in a conference with all the Big 8 schools except Mt. Carmel. 

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1 hour ago, sr1 said:

That is not really what happens to Castle. Over the last 26 years they have had 15 seasons with at least 8 wins. 20 winning records, one season of a .500 record and 5 less that .500

This is exactly what happens.  Last year, year before with a forfeit that went under the books and soon to be this year.  Over the last four years the facts are what they are.  The same talent that dominates for the seasons mentioned suddenly fails to do so at the varsity level.  This year’s group of Seniors and Juniors lost maybe two games combined Freshman and JV years.  Two games.    Last Friday that same group was found themselves  up 7-0 at Harrison in the 3Q.

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49 minutes ago, sr1 said:

That is not really what happens to Castle. Over the last 26 years they have had 15 seasons with at least 8 wins. 20 winning records, one season of a .500 record and 5 less that .500

This is exactly what happens to Castle. I've witnessed it for a while. There's high expectations in August and then disappointment by October. None of the Castle faithful are happy with a 6-4 or 7-3 record and not getting out of regionals after having tremendous success the years leading up to varsity ball. Starting the freshman year there seems to be a slow decline and peculiar decision making. They have the talent in the system to be at the top, or very near the top, of the SIAC and competitive in 5A most years. It just doesn't materialize for some reason.

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1 hour ago, sr1 said:

Did the conference changes have anything to do with this change? At the middle school level both Castle North and South used to play in a conference with all the Big 8 schools except Mt. Carmel. 

It's based on low numbers. The middle schools have always played a schedule with Big 8 schools and 2 Evansville schools.

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47 minutes ago, sr1 said:

How many kids are playing for the combined  Castle Middle Schools team this year?

Castle's state title runs and very unique school name put the program on the statewide map.  

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19 hours ago, tango said:

If MD has gone south, then there are a lot of other local teams that probably wish they had a seat on that bus.   

Yes and I'd predict another sectional championship this year, no offense to TC or Linton. Coach Goebel knows how to play with the cards he's dealt by Week 10 knows when to play them. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Tell City win a sectional. It would do wonders for the community, but if being the favorite for a sectional title means "gone south" then you're right.

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On 9/15/2020 at 8:09 AM, southend said:

We would be remiss not to add a third ,MD, to the list of Big Dogs, that went south. 

Not so fast my friend.  MD plays one of the tougher schedules in all of 2A every year.  They play ZERO 1A or 2A teams.  Their schedule is all 3, 4, and 5A teams and several of them are top programs.  Even if it's a rebuilding year, I would never count them out especially in the tournament.  Don't look at their record and assume they went "south".  

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9 hours ago, sr1 said:

How many kids are playing for the combined  Castle Middle Schools team this year?

I'm not sure of numbers. I attended one middle school game, and my guess would be in the 25-35 range for each grade. In comparison, 3 or 4 years ago there would have been 25-35 in each grade at each middle school. I would guess there are multiple factors at play. 

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7 minutes ago, South Paw said:

I'm not sure of numbers. I attended one middle school game, and my guess would be in the 25-35 range for each grade. In comparison, 3 or 4 years ago there would have been 25-35 in each grade at each middle school. I would guess there are multiple factors at play. 

That is really surprising.  A few years when I coached our 7th grade team I know counted 40+ on the other sideline.  Current enrollments are in the 240 - 280 range in each grade at both middle schools.  With those numbers, I don't understand why they can't get enough kids out to field separate teams for each middle school.  That was before the concussion stuff when crazy, but I wouldn't think that alone would be the cause. Certainly a contributing factor though.   

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27 minutes ago, tango said:

That is really surprising.  A few years when I coached our 7th grade team I know counted 40+ on the other sideline.  Current enrollments are in the 240 - 280 range in each grade at both middle schools.  With those numbers, I don't understand why they can't get enough kids out to field separate teams for each middle school.  That was before the concussion stuff when crazy, but I wouldn't think that alone would be the cause. Certainly a contributing factor though.   

This is just my opinion but these youth kids (many of us for that matter) did nothing for months because of Covid. You know how hard it is to start working out again after taking some time off, many of these kids don't want to start doing things (athletic things) again. Many of the parents probably enjoyed the time with their family during the downtime created by Covid, so when "little Johnny" wants to stay home instead of go to football practice many of these parents accept it as ok.

I know many youth programs (middle school on down) here in SW Indiana have lower numbers for football than in years past. The gradual decline, at some schools, in participation over the last few years has been accelerated this year due to Covid. Hopefully it bounces back! 

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5 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Yes and I'd predict another sectional championship this year, no offense to TC or Linton. Coach Goebel knows how to play with the cards he's dealt by Week 10 knows when to play them. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see Tell City win a sectional. It would do wonders for the community, but if being the favorite for a sectional title means "gone south" then you're right.

 

2 hours ago, itiswhatitis said:

Not so fast my friend.  MD plays one of the tougher schedules in all of 2A every year.  They play ZERO 1A or 2A teams.  Their schedule is all 3, 4, and 5A teams and several of them are top programs.  Even if it's a rebuilding year, I would never count them out especially in the tournament.  Don't look at their record and assume they went "south".  

Success Factor has been their friend in that regard. 

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2 hours ago, Paradise1960 said:

Castle has lost football players to those specializing in other sports. You also have to factor in kids that have moved too.

Name one in the last four years who relocated or dedicated to another sport?  Of the 21s and 22s that I know of that have moved it was  to play in another program.  Currently there are future/committed D1 baseball, football, soccer and lacrosse players all on the roster.
 

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15 minutes ago, Stickfish said:

Name one in the last four years who relocated or dedicated to another sport?  Of the 21s and 22s that I know of that have moved it was  to play in another program.  Currently there are future/committed D1 baseball, football, soccer and lacrosse players all on the roster.
 

The one I remember was the QB Moore who quit football prior to his senior year for golf.     

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This whole Castle story reminds me a lot about what we are seeing at Crown Point and Lake Central, both very good football schools in the 70s to the 00's.   The specialization and girls sports began to take over the athletic department, and football was the sport that suffered the most.  

What do Castle, Crown Point and Lake Central have in common?  They are the highest enrollment schools in their respective conferences, both located in overwhelmingly white high income suburbs, and both losing competitive ground to smaller schools 

 

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Word on the street there was much more to than golf.  But I will concede that was the version released and in an effort to be fact based will agree to one player.  Current class of 21s lost one game prior to varsity their JV season, undefeated  I believe Freshmen and at Castle North.  Current 22s undefeated both Freshmen and JV.  Similar tune for several years leading up to the Varsity records.  The FB program(s) don’t underperform until a certain arena.

 

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2 hours ago, Cappy said:

This is just my opinion but these youth kids (many of us for that matter) did nothing for months because of Covid. You know how hard it is to start working out again after taking some time off, many of these kids don't want to start doing things (athletic things) again. Many of the parents probably enjoyed the time with their family during the downtime created by Covid, so when "little Johnny" wants to stay home instead of go to football practice many of these parents accept it as ok.

I know many youth programs (middle school on down) here in SW Indiana have lower numbers for football than in years past. The gradual decline, at some schools, in participation over the last few years has been accelerated this year due to Covid. Hopefully it bounces back! 

I'm sure COVID had some impact on this year, but the decision in Paradise to combine the middle schools to make one team was made long before COVID. The numbers had been dwindling over the past 3-4 years. Last year was particularly bad. One of the teams only had like 14 kids after a couple of injuries. There really wasn't a choice. As I said before, there's several factors. 

Concussion hysteria has had an impact. Little Johnny's mom is scared to death he's going to have brain trauma or CTE from football, but has no issue with little Susie doing gymnastics, travel cheer, and soccer which also have high concussion rates.

Of course this still doesn't explain how many other schools steadily improve from middle school to varsity while Castle seems to decline or stagnate during that same time. Maybe the kids just peak too early? Yes, a few kids decide to "specialize", but that typically takes place around 6th grade in Paradise. The number that decide to specialize after they get to the high school level is fairly low unless they are D1 prospects, which isn't frequent. Were there maybe other underlying reasons for "specializing"? Every program has decisions to make. Sometimes they're tough, and sometimes they have consequences. 

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38 minutes ago, DT said:

This whole Castle story reminds me a lot about what we are seeing at Crown Point and Lake Central, both very good football schools in the 70s to the 00's.   The specialization and girls sports began to take over the athletic department, and football was the sport that suffered the most.  

What do Castle, Crown Point and Lake Central have in common?  They are the highest enrollment schools in their respective conferences, both located in overwhelmingly white high income suburbs, and both losing competitive ground to smaller schools 

 

I don't know about LC or CP, but Castle has a very competitive athletic program overall.    

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41 minutes ago, Stickfish said:

Word on the street there was much more to than golf.  But I will concede that was the version released and in an effort to be fact based will agree to one player.  Current class of 21s lost one game prior to varsity their JV season, undefeated  I believe Freshmen and at Castle North.  Current 22s undefeated both Freshmen and JV.  Similar tune for several years leading up to the Varsity records.  The FB program(s) don’t underperform until a certain arena.

 

Class of 21 from Castle South went undefeated both years of middle school. They were only challenged in one game their 7th grade year. In 8th grade, they were a highlight reel and were never challenged.  Their freshman year after joining the middle schools together, some suspect personnel decisions and brutal coaching resulted in them losing two games. Some of the best kids from that group are no longer at Castle or no longer play football.

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