2020 Center Grove might be Indiana's all time best

[Footballking16]

5 minutes ago, DT said:

Precisely my point.  We do know however that kids today are bigger , stronger and faster than they were 20 years ago.  Taken in totality, this CG roster would physically dominate those teams from 15-20 years back.  You also have to consider that this team indeed does have some future NFL Players on the roster.  That alone by itself is the difference maker

That Warren team had at least 3 players play an NFL regular season snap (Andrew McDonald, Adrien Robinson, Darren Evans) along with 6 or 7 other D1 kids just from that senior class alone. 
 

Your precise claim was this “might be the best team in Indiana history”; not “team that can beat any other team in Indiana history”. 15-20 years from now we’ll be saying the same thing about another team being able to beat this CG team because the game once again has evolved and players are even bigger, faster, stronger than before.

Still don’t think this CG team beats the 01 BD team or 06 Warren team.

[Guest DT]

2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

That Warren team had at least 3 players play an NFL regular season snap (Andrew McDonald, Adrien Robinson, Darren Evans) along with 6 or 7 other D1 kids just from that senior class alone. 
 

Your precise claim was this “might be the best team in Indiana history”; not “team that can beat any other team in Indiana history”. 15-20 years from now we’ll be saying the same thing about another team being able to beat this CG team because the game once again has evolved and players are even bigger, faster, stronger than before.

Still don’t think this CG team beats the 01 BD team or 06 Warren team.

I think the difference maker is the 2020 CG shutdown defense.  Its impenetrable.  And thats because they physically manhandle the opposition.  I believe this CG defense would shut down those BD and WC high flying offenses.

And neither BD nor WC were highly regarded defensively in those years.  CG would move the ball at will behind that Oline 

[Footballking16]

5 minutes ago, DT said:

I think the difference maker is the 2020 CG shutdown defense.  Its impenetrable.  And thats because they physically manhandle the opposition.  I believe this CG defense would shut down those BD and WC high flying offenses.

And neither BD nor WC were highly regarded defensively in those years.  CG would move the ball at will behind that Oline 

Again, that’s not only a very bold statement but an objective one. Saying neither of those teams could move the ball against this CG defense is egregious at best. Considering the 06 Warren team had multiple OL/TE go on to play in the NFL, a D1 QB and 2 future NFL RB’s, I’m going to have to disagree with you there. 

[Grover]

50 minutes ago, DT said:

This is the basic mentality that permeates the CG football program.  It has reached a level where anything less than a state title means the team has not accomplished its goal.

In a way, its a little sad.  Ive been watching this program build for the past 17 years. 

 

I don't think it is sad at all.  I think it is a matter of setting goals and staying focused on those goals.  CG's goals include winning the MIC and winning state.  I've been watching this program for 50 years and am thrilled to see it where it is.

[Guest DT]

36 minutes ago, Grover said:

I don't think it is sad at all.  I think it is a matter of setting goals and staying focused on those goals.  CG's goals include winning the MIC and winning state.  I've been watching this program for 50 years and am thrilled to see it where it is.

 

56 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Again, that’s not only a very bold statement but an objective one. Saying neither of those teams could move the ball against this CG defense is egregious at best. Considering the 06 Warren team had multiple OL/TE go on to play in the NFL, a D1 QB and 2 future NFL RB’s, I’m going to have to disagree with you there. 

15 years ago, CG did not have the talent to competet head to head with WC and BD.  They compensated for the talent deficit through precise execution of a tricky offense that proved more then the WC coordinatpors copuld handle on may occassions.

Today, CG has cleared the talent hurdle, and in fact passed both programs.  

Therin lies the difference now between the programs.

CG now has both the system and the talent to compete and dominate at the highest level.

 

[PHJIrish]

4 hours ago, Grover said:

I think both coaches are too smart to fall into that trap.  Winning this game is meaningless without a blue ring.

It's always nice to go unbeaten, but leaving Lucas Oil Stadium with the hardware on Thanksgiving weekend is what it's all about.  Only six teams finish the season with a win.

[itiswhatitis]

18 hours ago, Gipper said:

Absolutely.  Pioneer and Lafayette Central Catholic have also had legendary teams.  We also have New Palestine.

And so has Sheridan.

[BDGiant93]

10 hours ago, DT said:

And neither BD nor WC were highly regarded defensively in those years.  CG would move the ball at will behind that Oline 

(BD had three defensive Indiana All-Stars including the defensive back Mr. Football in James Banks)

Edited September 21, 2020 by BDGiant93

[hhpatriot04]

When comparing teams of different eras, it's apples to oranges to make a direct comparison, especially in a team sport like football. Individual sports have shown us that technology and training methods are maximizing an athlete's potential.

It's better to compare CG to teams within the past for or so years and say how they stack up... Same for WC 2006 and BD 2001 or 1991.

So my question would be is 2020 Center Grove, compared to recent teams, any better than BD or WC was compared to the teams of their era?

[Dave007]

On 9/20/2020 at 8:00 AM, Lysander said:

As good as they are, I’m not entirely certain they are even the best team in Indiana THIS year.  

Although, I think CalPreps/MaxPreps doesn’t update for a few days (could be wrong), they are (were) ranked 2nd in the State behind Cathedral.  Admittedly, if CalPreps hasn’t updated, CG’s absolute spanking of a good North Central team  (who is NOT the No. 2 team in the State.....they’re not EVEN the No. 2 team in 6A...where are you coming up with that?) could send them to No. 1.

I’d hope that both CG and Cathedral will show all their cards and not hold back (and both be healthy) the last regular season game. To a point, that game IS the State Championship since neither are likely to be truly challenged in their own classes this year (with only the very possible exception of Brownsburg in 6A providing challenge to CG).  

For both pride and posterity, I’d really like to see both those teams give that game their all.

 

Rankings update, MaxPreps and Saragin as of last night.  

 

IN High School Football Rankings

• Rankings updated: Sunday, Monday & Tuesday, Last update: 9/20/2020#

	School	Ovr.	Rating	Str.	+/-
1	Cathedral (Indianapolis)	5-0	59.0	35.6	+2
2	Center Grove (Greenwood)	5-0	57.4	29.8	--
3	Brownsburg	5-0	54.1	25.3	-2
4	Indianapolis Bishop Chatard (Indianapolis)	4-1	40.3	26.2	+1
5	North Central (Indianapolis)	4-1	36.3	30.0	-1
6	Carmel	3-2	36.2	35.7	+2
7	Mt. Vernon (Fortville)	5-0	35.3	-0.4	-1
8	Westfield	4-1	35.2	23.5	+2
9	Merrillville	4-0	33.5	7.9	-2
10	Mooresville	5-0	32.3	10.8	+10

 

 

 

 

Just now, Dave007 said:

Rankings update, MaxPreps and Saragin as of last night.  

 

IN High School Football Rankings

• Rankings updated: Sunday, Monday & Tuesday, Last update: 9/20/2020#

	School	Ovr.	Rating	Str.	+/-
1	Cathedral (Indianapolis)	5-0	59.0	35.6	+2
2	Center Grove (Greenwood)	5-0	57.4	29.8	--
3	Brownsburg	5-0	54.1	25.3	-2
4	Indianapolis Bishop Chatard (Indianapolis)	4-1	40.3	26.2	+1
5	North Central (Indianapolis)	4-1	36.3	30.0	-1
6	Carmel	3-2	36.2	35.7	+2
7	Mt. Vernon (Fortville)	5-0	35.3	-0.4	-1
8	Westfield	4-1	35.2	23.5	+2
9	Merrillville	4-0	33.5	7.9	-2
10	Mooresville	5-0	32.3	10.8	+10

 

 

 

 

Last updated: 2020 September 19 Saturday 20:25:53.471  Central Standard Time  = GMT/UTC-06:00
              2020 September 20 Sunday   02:25:53.471  Greenwich Mean Time    = GMT/UTC
JULIAN DATE= 2459112

make sure to hit reload(refresh) and/or possibly clear your cache first to ensure you get the updated ratings

Last updated: 2020 September 19 Saturday 20:25:53.471  Central Standard Time  = GMT/UTC-06:00
              2020 September 20 Sunday   02:25:53.471  Greenwich Mean Time    = GMT/UTC
JULIAN DATE= 2459112

make sure to hit reload(refresh) and/or possibly clear your cache first to ensure you get the updated ratings

[Dave007]

Last updated: 2020 September 19 Saturday 20:25:53.471  Central Standard Time  = GMT/UTC-06:00
              2020 September 20 Sunday   02:25:53.471  Greenwich Mean Time    = GMT/UTC

http://sagarin.com/sports/hsfsend.htm

 

 

[Guest DT]

33 minutes ago, Dave007 said:

Rankings update, MaxPreps and Saragin as of last night.  

 

IN High School Football Rankings

• Rankings updated: Sunday, Monday & Tuesday, Last update: 9/20/2020#

	School	Ovr.	Rating	Str.	+/-
1	Cathedral (Indianapolis)	5-0	59.0	35.6	+2
2	Center Grove (Greenwood)	5-0	57.4	29.8	--
3	Brownsburg	5-0	54.1	25.3	-2
4	Indianapolis Bishop Chatard (Indianapolis)	4-1	40.3	26.2	+1
5	North Central (Indianapolis)	4-1	36.3	30.0	-1
6	Carmel	3-2	36.2	35.7	+2
7	Mt. Vernon (Fortville)	5-0	35.3	-0.4	-1
8	Westfield	4-1	35.2	23.5	+2
9	Merrillville	4-0	33.5	7.9	-2
10	Mooresville	5-0	32.3	10.8	+10

 

 

 

 

Last updated: 2020 September 19 Saturday 20:25:53.471  Central Standard Time  = GMT/UTC-06:00
              2020 September 20 Sunday   02:25:53.471  Greenwich Mean Time    = GMT/UTC
JULIAN DATE= 2459112

make sure to hit reload(refresh) and/or possibly clear your cache first to ensure you get the updated ratings

Last updated: 2020 September 19 Saturday 20:25:53.471  Central Standard Time  = GMT/UTC-06:00
              2020 September 20 Sunday   02:25:53.471  Greenwich Mean Time    = GMT/UTC
JULIAN DATE= 2459112

make sure to hit reload(refresh) and/or possibly clear your cache first to ensure you get the updated ratings

Too bad Mike Gillin never got a chance to coach in The MIC or The HCC.  Would have been very interesting to see what he could have done in a school with 3500 students and all that talent roaming the halls.

Pike or Lawrence Central sure could use him now, as could a Franklin Central or Fishers.

[Coachmac0703]

15 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

That Warren team had at least 3 players play an NFL regular season snap (Andrew McDonald, Adrien Robinson, Darren Evans) along with 6 or 7 other D1 kids just from that senior class alone. 
 

Your precise claim was this “might be the best team in Indiana history”; not “team that can beat any other team in Indiana history”. 15-20 years from now we’ll be saying the same thing about another team being able to beat this CG team because the game once again has evolved and players are even bigger, faster, stronger than before.

Still don’t think this CG team beats the 01 BD team or 06 Warren team.

CGs 01 team cam real close to beating the BD 01 team.  Trust me I have seen and coached against all the teams everyone is referencing and 03 Warren Team would be the only one to give this CG team a matchup.  Now that would be worth the price of admission.

[BDGiant93]

4 hours ago, DT said:

Too bad Mike Gillin never got a chance to coach in The MIC or The HCC.  Would have been very interesting to see what he could have done in a school with 3500 students and all that talent roaming the halls.

Pike or Lawrence Central sure could use him now, as could a Franklin Central or Fishers.

He needed you as his agent.

[Guest DT]

1 minute ago, BDGiant93 said:

He needed you as his agent.

Pike was the target all along

 

[BDGiant93]

20 minutes ago, DT said:

Pike was the target all along

 

It would have been a very good spot, I agree.

[SEXYMOFO]

On 9/20/2020 at 12:12 PM, itiswhatitis said:

That 2001 BD team outscored their 6 tournament opponents by a score of 279 - 83 or approximately a 49 - 13 average.  The scores were sectional games:  Pike 51 - 12, Southport 48 - 0, sectional title was Decatur Central 68 - 14, regional was Warren Central 56 - 21 (the season meeting was 38 - 28), semi state was Evansville Reitz 61 - 20, and the state final was 35 - 16 over Valpo.  Not so sure you could just use these scores to  justify making them the greatest of all time, but it was pretty much 6 blowout games during the tournament.  

Warren 06 beat their 6 playoff opponents 271-27 

[SEXYMOFO]

On 9/20/2020 at 2:14 PM, BDGiant93 said:

1991 Ben Davis outscored its opposition 651-125 in 14 games.

Warren 06 beat their 15 oppents 722-124

[JeffO2]

They're very good and this sr. class has dominated the MIC since they were Freshman and Carson Steele has played varsity for 4 years.  North Central has had their number the last two previous games. This season has disrupted a lot of off-season development for many teams. CG was just primed and ready to go with a lot of experienced players.

I'll still take the 2017 Ben Davis team. As a wise man once said, "We'll see."

[CaptainHook]

only one school beat Cathedral and Center Grove (both soundly) last season with the same cast of characters (albeit a year younger)  . . . I'm trying to remember who it was . . . I'll check my notes . . . 

[Olympian06]

12 hours ago, DT said:

Too bad Mike Gillin never got a chance to coach in The MIC or The HCC.  Would have been very interesting to see what he could have done in a school with 3500 students and all that talent roaming the halls.

Pike or Lawrence Central sure could use him now, as could a Franklin Central or Fishers.

A few coaches I wish I could see what they could do.. Kyle Ralph, Bob Gaddis along with Mr Gillin 

[FastpacedO]

On 9/20/2020 at 9:30 PM, Footballking16 said:

I don’t think they beat 06 Warren or 01 Ben Davis. Just an opinion. Pretty sure both those teams finished the season top 10, if not too 5 nationally. The amount of high D1 caliber kids on that 06 Warren team was staggering.
 

The evolution of the game + size and strength of kids these days makes it impossible to compare teams from different eras. 

 

On 9/20/2020 at 9:33 PM, DT said:

Precisely my point.  We do know however that kids today are bigger , stronger and faster than they were 20 years ago.  Taken in totality, this CG roster would physically dominate those teams from 15-20 years back.  You also have to consider that this team indeed does have some future NFL Players on the roster.  That alone by itself is the difference maker

Watching that those Warren Central teams 2003-04 to 2006-07 I haven't seen many teams this year bigger, stronger, or faster. They had size, had strength, and had speed. Heck I think @Bobrefis still trying to catch up to a certain Warren Central QB nearly 14 years later!

[Bobref]

20 minutes ago, FastpacedO said:

 

Watching that those Warren Central teams 2003-04 to 2006-07 I haven't seen many teams this year bigger, stronger, or faster. They had size, had strength, and had speed. Heck I think @Bobrefis still trying to catch up to a certain Warren Central QB nearly 14 years later!

I still have a very clear mental image of the name “Tardy” on the back of his jersey getting smaller and smaller as he accelerated away from me.

And that was the 2003 team, so it was 17 yrs. ago.

[BDGiant93]

14 hours ago, SEXYMOFO said:

Warren 06 beat their 15 oppents 722-124

Including Ben Davis 76-7.

[Football Fanatic]

On 9/20/2020 at 3:54 PM, Lysander said:

I’m not sure either that scoring spreads season long (or, more specifically, only in playoffs are that relevant either).  I’m thinking there was a Reitz team MANY years ago that might have shut out everyone in the season (maybe I recall incorrectly).

Correct. The 1961 Reitz team did not allow a single point. They outscored their opponents 368-0. They only allowed an average of 72 yards per game. They were led by FB/LB Don Hansen, who played along with Butkus at UofI and played 11 seasons in the NFL. In week 8, they played unbeaten Memorial, which people called the game of the century. Apparently there was 14,000 stacked in The Bowl. Reitz obviously shut them out and won 33-0. However, I know there are people who still say that the 1960 Reitz team (allowed 15 points) was better due to more size and speed. Those teams will live on forever in southern Indiana, and especially on the west side of Evansville. However, being realistic, are those teams even better than the '07 and '09 Reitz teams? And especially any of the post-2000 BD, WC, CG teams? Hard to say. Talent, physicality, coaching, playbooks, rules, etc. are just so different and more advanced now.