School Choice is Good For America; round 4

[DanteEstonia]

2 minutes ago, DE said:

And you are teaching kids?  Wow.

Are you? 

[DE]

1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said:

Are you? 

Sure am.

[DanteEstonia]

On 3/23/2022 at 5:26 PM, DE said:

You do know there are other ways to raise income that CUTS taxes, don't you?

I'm going to allow you to clarify this statement-

Is this a reference to the Laffer Curve?

[DE]

21 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

I'm going to allow you to clarify this statement-

Is this a reference to the Laffer Curve?

I have already explained it.  Have a great day.

[DanteEstonia]

12 hours ago, DE said:

I have already explained it. 

Please link to where you did. 

[DE]

12 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

Please link to where you did. 

no

[DanteEstonia]

3 hours ago, DE said:

no

So you are making up things, just like @absenceovempathy? 

[DE]

1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said:

So you are making up things, just like @absenceovempathy? 

no.  i am choosing not to repeat myself.

[Muda69]

High-Quality 'Public' Schools Don't Want Low-Income Students

https://reason.com/2022/03/24/high-quality-public-schools-dont-want-low-income-students/

Quote

Public education nationwide is not as free or equal as many would like to believe it is.

Most K–12 school children are assigned to their public school through geographic school districts. Educational opportunities are largely determined by where parents can afford to live. Congress acknowledged this in a 2019 Joint Economic Committee report stating, "Families are faced with the reality that attending a high-performing public school often requires paying more for housing, and many students' educational opportunities are limited as a result."

The report found that the median home value in zip codes associated with highly rated schools is quadruple the median home value in zip codes associated with poorly rated schools. This means that students (especially those who struggle with housing insecurity, are in the foster care system, or are simply from a low-income family) can get stuck in low-performing schools and barred from highly rated public schools simply because their families cannot afford to purchase a home in a better district.

 

Including the cost of tuition in the cost of housing is antithetical to the idea of free public education. Unfortunately, some education officials are outspoken proponents of this system and are working to keep low-income kids out of their classrooms.

Kansas superintendents Tonya Merrigan and Brent Yeager of the high performing Blue Valley Schools and Olathe Public Schools districts recently submitted written testimony in opposition to a groundbreaking proposal that would weaken the bond between housing prices and schooling quality. Merrigan and Yeager claimed they can only offer a high quality education to the families that can afford to buy into their communities.

"While we can certainly empathize with parents in lower-performing districts, both Blue Valley and Olathe are among the highest-performing districts in Kansa—indeed competing nationally—and, as such, would find our districts overwhelmed with requests from non-residents," they wrote. "Without intending to sound elitist, it is nonetheless true that housing costs in our districts often provide a check on resident student growth now."

In other words, the high cost of living keeps less affluent kids out of their schools. 

High-performing public schools often have the best and most experienced teachers in a school district and greater academic amenities, such as tutoring services and mentorship. Unfortunately, government-imposed district boundaries create exclusive educational enclaves nationwide. As Tim DeRoche wrote in his book, A Fine Line, "Poor families know that there are good or even great public schools in their district….But their children aren't allowed to attend those schools. Who is allowed to attend? Wealthier people who pay through their mortgage or their rent for access to these public schools that are 'public' in name only."

Despite the fact that vulnerable students would benefit the most from the academic advantages and climate of high-performing schools, geographic barriers and housing prices create an insurmountable barrier. Families that try to get around this unfair system to do what's best for their child can find themselves wrapped up in the court system. This was true for Kelley Williams-Bolar, a mother from Ohio who received two concurrent five-year sentences (suspended to 10 days) for using her father's address to enroll her children in a better school district.

 

Kansas policymakers, however, are looking to change the geography-based status quo. The House Committee on K-12 Education Budget submitted a proposal that would weaken these barriers through open enrollment. Following the lead of Florida and Wisconsin, this proposed open enrollment policy would allow children to attend any public school outside their assigned school district with open seats on a first-come, first-served basis.

The proposal would break the geographic monopoly by requiring school districts to accept transfer students with limited exceptions, such as capacity. Transfer students cannot displace students who are already residentially assigned to the school district. Each school district would report the number of available seats to the Kansas Department of Education and post them on the district website. School districts would be prohibited from charging transfer students tuition, and the legislation includes a provision about providing transportation to non-resident students. These are just some of the tactics districts use to keep disadvantaged students out of open seats. 

Open enrollment makes public education more student-centered, instead of institution-centered, since families have greater flexibility to enroll in public schools that are the right fit for them, rather than being stuck in a certain school because of where they live. And open enrollment is just one part of the wider school choice ecosystem.

Kansas' open enrollment proposal would be a boon to families that cannot afford to purchase homes in expensive school districts, giving them access to high-quality education options.

Most of the nationwide 48.2 million K–12 students enrolled in public schools are stuck in an outdated and discriminatory system. Families, not elitist school districts, should decide where their children can go to school.

Have there been statistics released since Indiana went to an open enrollment system of exactly how many students state-wide are now attending a government school that is not their geographically-assigned one?  And are the government schools that accept transfers compiling reports of who these students are and from what government school districts they are coming from?

Could provide interesting information.

 

[DanteEstonia]

3 hours ago, Muda69 said:

High-Quality 'Public' Schools Don't Want Low-Income Students

https://reason.com/2022/03/24/high-quality-public-schools-dont-want-low-income-students/

Have there been statistics released since Indiana went to an open enrollment system of exactly how many students state-wide are now attending a government school that is not their geographically-assigned one?  And are the government schools that accept transfers compiling reports of who these students are and from what government school districts they are coming from?

Could provide interesting information.

 

I know from first-hand experience that this is a thing in Arizona. 

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said:

I know from first-hand experience that this is a thing in Arizona. 

Are you outraged about it?

[DanteEstonia]

9 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Are you outraged about it?

It's a natural outcome of school choice. 

[Muda69]

10 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

It's a natural outcome of school choice. 

You're being outraged about school choice?  Yeah, we get that.

 

[DanteEstonia]

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

You're being outraged about school choice?  Yeah, we get that.

 

Allow me to clarify, using your own source-

 

Schools of quality don't want "low-income" students, because those students aren't students of quality. All "school choice" does is produce a sorting mechanism to allow segregation to return. 

[Muda69]

10 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

Allow me to clarify, using your own source-

 

Schools of quality don't want "low-income" students, because those students aren't students of quality. All "school choice" does is produce a sorting mechanism to allow segregation to return. 

So those parents who choose to send their children to a non-government school are practicing segregation.  Got it.

Guess they should be imprisoned, fined, or something.  After all, the state automatically knows what is best for all of us, right?

 

[DanteEstonia]

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

So those parents who choose to send their children to a non-government school are practicing segregation.  Got it.

Let's look at the demographics in Nevada-

https://www.nevadacurrent.com/2022/01/05/nevada-charter-schools-continue-to-grow-faster-than-traditional-districts/

 

From the source-

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Muda69]

8 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

Let's look at the demographics in Nevada-

https://www.nevadacurrent.com/2022/01/05/nevada-charter-schools-continue-to-grow-faster-than-traditional-districts/

 

From the source-

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look like 11.2% of the parents in Nevada/Clark County are segregationists and need to be punished by the state for not believing the government schools are the best and only real educational option for their children.

[DanteEstonia]

3 hours ago, Muda69 said:

Look like 11.2% of the parents in Nevada/Clark County are segregationists and need to be punished by the state for not believing the government schools are the best and only real educational option for their children.

And instead of addressing the criticism, you give me this nonsense. 

[Muda69]

26 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said:

And instead of addressing the criticism, you give me this nonsense. 

Yeah, your criticism of school choice IS nonsense.  And anti-freedom.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Muda69

[DE]

14 hours ago, Muda69 said:

So those parents who choose to send their children to a non-government school are practicing segregation.  Got it.

Guess they should be imprisoned, fined, or something.  After all, the state automatically knows what is best for all of us, right?

 

Nope.  I for one, do not co-parent w/ the government.

18 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Yeah, your criticism of school choice IS nonsense.  And anti-freedom.

 

 

👍

[DE]

The state already assigns each student a monetary worth here in Indiana.  Let the parent's choose how they want THEIR tax dollars to be spent on THEIR child's education.

I think we can all agree, a great education is important for ALL people.

[DE]

All we have heard in the recent past is equity.  This is true equity.  Why should a student be locked to a failing school?

I know one MAJOR reason.  Teacher's Unions do not want school choice, which ironically, neither do Democrats (not to get into politics, but again, all we have heard about is equity being spewed by all sides of political aisles).  Teacher's unions (at least here in Indiana) automatically deduct a portion of the union dues to go directly to political action that DIRECTLY "supports" public education.  You must opt out if you do not want your union dues going to these political action groups.

[Irishman]

1 hour ago, DE said:

All we have heard in the recent past is equity.  This is true equity.  Why should a student be locked to a failing school?

I know one MAJOR reason.  Teacher's Unions do not want school choice, which ironically, neither do Democrats (not to get into politics, but again, all we have heard about is equity being spewed by all sides of political aisles).  Teacher's unions (at least here in Indiana) automatically deduct a portion of the union dues to go directly to political action that DIRECTLY "supports" public education.  You must opt out if you do not want your union dues going to these political action groups.

Not really digging into this topic, but this is not all correct. It is illegal for union dues to go to political action committees associated with the organization. IPACE is the PAC for ISTA, and all money given to IPACE is voluntary. 

https://www.twlglawfirm.com/new-york-construction-accident-lawyer/can-union-dues-be-used-for-political-purposes/ 

[DE]

19 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Not really digging into this topic, but this is not all correct. It is illegal for union dues to go to political action committees associated with the organization. IPACE is the PAC for ISTA, and all money given to IPACE is voluntary. 

https://www.twlglawfirm.com/new-york-construction-accident-lawyer/can-union-dues-be-used-for-political-purposes/ 

Then ISTA better change their language.

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, DE said:

Nope.  I for one, do not co-parent w/ the government.

👍

What, you don't believe in the concept of "in loco parentis" when it comes to public school teachers and administrators?  

I once had an assistant superintendent pull that line on me once in a discussion we had over the IMHO illegal search of high school students belongings.