How did New Pal Slip So Quickly?

[hhpatriot04]

3 hours ago, Lysander said:

Not biting. 

We can’t even seed Sectionals.  

Playing devil's advocate here, but I've long said if wrestling coaches can seed hundreds of kids in the sectional for what's debatedly the most exciting state tournament, then why can't football coaches too?

[dmizers3]

4 hours ago, DT said:

Given the run that NP was on, do you rteally think the other 7 HHC head coaches would have given their endorsement to this transfer?  Of course they wouldnt.  They would have known exactly what was coming their way, which was a much more powerful and dominant NP program

And coaches arent given the option to veto transfers.  Most are much too macho and ego driven to throw up the red flag on such an issue.  This is why this should fall under the purveyence of the primary governing body, the IHSAA.

 

That's just plain ignorant. The IHSAA has no authority to dictate where families can move.

[jets]

7 hours ago, hhpatriot04 said:

Playing devil's advocate here, but I've long said if wrestling coaches can seed hundreds of kids in the sectional for what's debatedly the most exciting state tournament, then why can't football coaches too?

Been preaching that for years (not that anyone listens and/or cares). Lock the HC and AD’s in a room with seeding criteria- ie Head-to-Head, common opponent, etc...AND LET THEM FIGURE IT OUT!! It’s really not that hard- seen it done for years in wrestling rooms across the State. 

It is sheer laziness or unwillingness or the “by God we’ve always done it this way” mentality of the IHSAA that is sooo frustrating. One small change, an hour meeting could make the tourney that much better, and really wouldn’t take anything away from it. 

Rant over

[Bobref]

7 hours ago, jets said:

Been preaching that for years (not that anyone listens and/or cares). Lock the HC and AD’s in a room with seeding criteria- ie Head-to-Head, common opponent, etc...AND LET THEM FIGURE IT OUT!! It’s really not that hard- seen it done for years in wrestling rooms across the State. 

It is sheer laziness or unwillingness or the “by God we’ve always done it this way” mentality of the IHSAA that is sooo frustrating. One small change, an hour meeting could make the tourney that much better, and really wouldn’t take anything away from it. 

Rant over

I wonder if the IHSAA considers seeding the tourney as a first step on the “slippery slope” of a tournament qualification system. The inevitable consequence of seeding is those 1 vs. 8 or 1 vs. 7 opening matchups, which will get everyone very familiar with the Mercy Rule, if they aren’t already. Once we have a few years of first round massacres, the IHSAA will realize the futility of those 1st round matchups, and simply eliminate half the field, let everyone play a 10th regular season game, and the tournament will be 5 weeks instead of 6.

I just hope it happens in my lifetime ... but they better get started pretty soon. 🤣

[Muda69]

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

I wonder if the IHSAA considers seeding the tourney as a first step on the “slippery slope” of a tournament qualification system.

Bingo.

 

[jets]

3 hours ago, Bobref said:

I wonder if the IHSAA considers seeding the tourney as a first step on the “slippery slope” of a tournament qualification system. The inevitable consequence of seeding is those 1 vs. 8 or 1 vs. 7 opening matchups, which will get everyone very familiar with the Mercy Rule, if they aren’t already. Once we have a few years of first round massacres, the IHSAA will realize the futility of those 1st round matchups, and simply eliminate half the field, let everyone play a 10th regular season game, and the tournament will be 5 weeks instead of 6.

I just hope it happens in my lifetime ... but they better get started pretty soon. 🤣

Interesting take- but seeding DOES NOT have to lead to playoff qualification (even though I know that’s been your push for years and IMO- is what is holding seeding back- that and 1/2 of all Coaches want the “dream draw”) 

Wrestling for years has had the 1 v 8 and it doesn’t mean every wrestlers still doesn’t make the tourney. 

 

[Muda69]

23 minutes ago, jets said:

Interesting take- but seeding DOES NOT have to lead to playoff qualification (even though I know that’s been your push for years and IMO- is what is holding seeding back- that and 1/2 of all Coaches want the “dream draw”) 

Wrestling for years has had the 1 v 8 and it doesn’t mean every wrestlers still doesn’t make the tourney. 

 

Comparing tackle football to wrestling is apples to oranges.  

[Footballking16]

31 minutes ago, jets said:

Interesting take- but seeding DOES NOT have to lead to playoff qualification (even though I know that’s been your push for years and IMO- is what is holding seeding back- that and 1/2 of all Coaches want the “dream draw”) 

Wrestling for years has had the 1 v 8 and it doesn’t mean every wrestlers still doesn’t make the tourney. 

 

Two different animals though. Wrestling matches take all of 5-10 minutes tops and don't receive near the notoriety of a football game. An overmatched wrestler getting pinned within 10 seconds doesn't quite have the same connotation of an overmatched football team getting beat 70-0.

As a qualifier supporter myself, I do think seeding is what is holding Indiana back from a qualification-based playoff. Seeding would lead to widespread, unnecessary blowouts the first two weeks of sectionals to the point where only a qualification-based system makes sense. 

[Muda69]

31 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Two different animals though. Wrestling matches take all of 5-10 minutes tops and don't receive near the notoriety of a football game. An overmatched wrestler getting pinned within 10 seconds doesn't quite have the same connotation of an overmatched football team getting beat 70-0.

As a qualifier supporter myself, I do think seeding is what is holding Indiana back from a qualification-based playoff. Seeding would lead to widespread, unnecessary blowouts the first two weeks of sectionals to the point where only a qualification-based system makes sense. 

What?  I thought all high school football games had meaning?  At least that is what I have been told repeatedly here on the GID.

 

 

[Footballking16]

8 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

What?  I thought all high school football games had meaning?  At least that is what I have been told repeatedly here on the GID.

 

 

I've been on record here for multiple years saying regular season games would have tons more meaning in a qualification-based system. And yes, first round sectional games pitted between two teams that are 9-0 and 0-9 are unnecessary. 

[gonzoron]

51 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Two different animals though. Wrestling matches take all of 5-10 minutes tops and don't receive near the notoriety of a football game. An overmatched wrestler getting pinned within 10 seconds doesn't quite have the same connotation of an overmatched football team getting beat 70-0.

As a qualifier supporter myself, I do think seeding is what is holding Indiana back from a qualification-based playoff. Seeding would lead to widespread, unnecessary blowouts the first two weeks of sectionals to the point where only a qualification-based system makes sense. 

The fact remains though, if they can seed hundreds of wrestlers at 1 sectional, what would be so difficult about seeding 6-8 football teams?

[Footballking16]

9 minutes ago, gonzoron said:

The fact remains though, if they can seed hundreds of wrestlers at 1 sectional, what would be so difficult about seeding 6-8 football teams?

I don't think it's difficult at all. I just don't think the IHSAA wants to have to answer as to why it's practical to continually allow 50-60 point blowouts statewide year in and year out at the first and second round level of the playoffs. Seeding the sectionals would be the tipping point to a qualification-based system. As it stands now, 50-60 point blowouts can be justified by the "randomness" of the draw. 

[BDGiant93]

On 10/6/2020 at 7:57 AM, Muda69 said:

Yet the IHSAA board had ultimately approve such competitive balances reforms, did they not?  

 

Actually, it was a principals vote that ultimately murdered the one-class system.

[jets]

32 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I don't think it's difficult at all. I just don't think the IHSAA wants to have to answer as to why it's practical to continually allow 50-60 point blowouts statewide year in and year out at the first and second round level of the playoffs. Seeding the sectionals would be the tipping point to a qualification-based system. As it stands now, 50-60 point blowouts can be justified by the "randomness" of the draw. 

And THUS - we'll never get to see seeding happen because of pushes like this. I get that some of you WANT a qualification system - but seeding would be better than the current "blind draw" . I.E. seeding is better than nothing - and I really don't understand why the lack of support for it? 

[olinecoach]

Another problem with the seeding/qualification rabbit hole is that it will force teams to change their regular season schedules to ensure they can get a higher seed or qualify. I think of some of the Luers teams or even some of the MIC/HCC/Hoosier Conference schools who had so-so regular season records because of playing bigger and better competition but then go on to have deep tournament runs or even win a state title. 

[Footballking16]

2 minutes ago, jets said:

And THUS - we'll never get to see seeding happen because of pushes like this. I get that some of you WANT a qualification system - but seeding would be better than the current "blind draw" . I.E. seeding is better than nothing - and I really don't understand why the lack of support for it? 

Huh?

Where did I say I didn’t support seeding? Anything that prevents two undefeated teams playing in round 1 on one half the bracket while two winless teams play on the other side of the bracket is better than the status quo. That’s pretty much a given and should be noted as common sense.

But seeding is ultimately the by-product of a qualification-based system. But the all-in, blind draw is the IHSAA’s justification for unnecessary blowouts in the early round of sectional’s. The IHSAA has built this narrative that with an all-in, blind draw format that it’s a new season for everyone where anything can happen due the unique “randomness” of the format. It’s a complete farce. Seeding eliminates that false narrative the IHSAA has been pushing for decades and reveals that in fact the tournament isn’t random and upsets really don’t occur. Once that narrative has been re-established due to seeding, the need to include winless teams in a postseason goes out the window. 

[Tanka Jahari]

Has the quality of New Palestine's endzone film suffered during this time of struggle? You can judge a program in decline by whether they have an endzone camera and how well it is used.

[CaptainHook]

After trailing 27-3, the Dragons mounted a furious comeback, scoring 28 unanswered points, including 14 posts in the last 93 seconds, to win 31-27 vs Franklin.  They started 3 sophomores on the OL and a freshman RB.

If you wanna learn how to play football the right way, come to New Palestine.  You will have to play above your punching weight.

Dragons are a tough out.

Edited October 31, 2020 by CaptainHook

[Donnie Baker]

1 minute ago, CaptainHook said:

After the trailing 27-3, the Dragons mounted a furious comeback, scoring 28 unanswered points, including 14 posts in the last 93 seconds, to win 31-27 vs Franklin tonight.  They started 3 sophomores on the OL and a freshman RB.

If you wanna learn how to learn to play football the right way, come to New Palestine.

Dragons are a tough out.

Good job Hooks!

[foxbat]