Reclassification 2021 Season

[oldtimeqb]

2 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

Okay....so The Ridge won the state tournament in 2017 (4 points) and the regional in 2018 (2 points) which meant they move up to 3A.  Last season they lost in the sectional (0 pts).  So it is my understanding that no matter what happens they will move back to 2A due to a two year period of not meeting the 6 point rule.  Is that wrong??

Southridge 'stays up' with a Regional win (2 points). 

Quote

If a school which has participated in a higher enrollment class during the previous reclassification period achieves a tournament series success point value of Two (2), Three (3), Four (4) or Five (5) points in a specific sport, such school shall remain in the same enrollment class in that sport for the next reclassification period. The foregoing notwithstanding, if there is a change in the school’s enrollment which would result in the school being placed in a higher enrollment class than the enrollment class dictated by this section, then in that circumstance the school shall be placed in the enrollment class determined by the school’s enrollment for the next reclassification period.

New Pal and Evansville Memorial already have 4 points with state titles in 2019.  They will stay up unless they win regional (2 more points) and get bumped up again. 

[Titan32]

13 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

Okay....so The Ridge won the state tournament in 2017 (4 points) and the regional in 2018 (2 points) which meant they move up to 3A.  Last season they lost in the sectional (0 pts).  So it is my understanding that no matter what happens they will move back to 2A due to a two year period of not meeting the 6 point rule.  Is that wrong??

Once you are moved up it just takes 2 points (Regional win) the following cycle to keep you there.

[Patriot 74]

14 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Once you are moved up it just takes 2 points (Regional win) the following cycle to keep you there.

Thank you for the insight and to you as well oldtimeqb!!  I did not know this was the rule!!  Looks like there is a chance then that The Ridge could stay in 3A!!  But I am quite certain there are a few teams in that sectional that will have their own eyes on the prize!!

[sr1]

29 minutes ago, Patriot 74 said:

Okay....so The Ridge won the state tournament in 2017 (4 points) and the regional in 2018 (2 points) which meant they move up to 3A.  Last season they lost in the sectional (0 pts).  So it is my understanding that no matter what happens they will move back to 2A due to a two year period of not meeting the 6 point rule.  Is that wrong??

That is wrong. Southridge is in 3A now as you said due to getting the 6 points in 2017 and 2018.  Here is the part of the rule that explains what is required to keep them in 3A.

d. If a school which has participated in a higher enrollment class during the previous reclassification period achieves a tournament series success point value of Two (2), Three (3), Four (4) or Five (5) points in a specific sport, such school shall remain in the same enrollment class in that sport for the next reclassification period.

Southridge did not win the sectional last year so they received 0 points. A regional championship this year would give them 2 points.  That would meet the requirements to stay bumped up to 3A.

[Patriot 74]

29 minutes ago, sr1 said:

That is wrong. Southridge is in 3A now as you said due to getting the 6 points in 2017 and 2018.  Here is the part of the rule that explains what is required to keep them in 3A.

d. If a school which has participated in a higher enrollment class during the previous reclassification period achieves a tournament series success point value of Two (2), Three (3), Four (4) or Five (5) points in a specific sport, such school shall remain in the same enrollment class in that sport for the next reclassification period.

Southridge did not win the sectional last year so they received 0 points. A regional championship this year would give them 2 points.  That would meet the requirements to stay bumped up to 3A.

Ummmmmmmmmm did  you not see the previous three posts???  The ones from 32, and oldtime???  They explained it perfectly without the "that is wrong" stuff......cheeeeeez

[sr1]

No I did not. read your post, got distracted with a phone call and then quoted and replied without being aware that I have not read all the posts. The "that is wrong" stuff was written because you asked "Is that wrong".

[oldunclemark]

There are a lot of factors but, just on enrollment, I'm almost sure that Griffith drops from Class 4A to 3A

Morton is likely to bump from 4A to Class 5A

[oldunclemark]

On 10/5/2020 at 7:20 PM, DT said:

Have the Hammond schools been factored in?

No...Hammond and Morton may both be Class 5A after consolidation..

..and Valparaiso goes back to 6A , I believe, if they win the 5A regional.

[Guest DT]

22 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

No...Hammond and Morton may both be Class 5A after consolidation..

..and Valparaiso goes back to 6A , I believe, if they win the 5A regional.

Valpos season is completely screwed up.  Who knows if they can even get out of the sectional

On 10/5/2020 at 9:20 PM, DT said:

Have the Hammond schools been factored in?

Really?

I got a down vote for asking this question?

 

LOL

[fenderbender]

18 hours ago, Patriot 74 said:

Okay....so The Ridge won the state tournament in 2017 (4 points) and the regional in 2018 (2 points) which meant they move up to 3A.  Last season they lost in the sectional (0 pts).  So it is my understanding that no matter what happens they will move back to 2A due to a two year period of not meeting the 6 point rule.  Is that wrong??

Here is how it works from what I read:

1.)  Get six points during classification period, you move up.

2.)  Get a total of 2 points during the next classification period, you stay up.

So basically, if you were moved up and then win sectionals in the next two years of the next period until the end of time the school will never drop down.

Cathedral is a pretty good example.  Still up in 5A even though they  have not won state in several years.  They are currently at 1 point and will win sectionals for sure.  (Probably 5A state champion.)

 

[1st and Goal]

Enrollment and Success factors are done in the same year correct? Is that total enrollment or do they go by gender? Just curious  

[sr1]

1 hour ago, 1st and Goal said:

Enrollment and Success factors are done in the same year correct? Is that total enrollment or do they go by gender? Just curious  

Correct. Enrollment is the total enrollment. 

[Coach Nowlin]

22 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said:

https://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/Tournament Success Factor/Football Success Totals 2019-20 2020-21.pdf

 

 

https://www.ihsaa.org/Portals/0/ihsaa/documents/Tournament Success Factor/Tournament Success Factor Provisions.pdf

 

 

My friends:  click the links:  it literally is a table with columns and points and tells you what needs to happen etc etc etc.....  all in the links above

8 hours ago, DT said:

Valpos season is completely screwed up.  Who knows if they can even get out of the sectional

Really?

I got a down vote for asking this question?

 

LOL

I gave you @DT a heart buddy.  No worries.  

[Titan32]

20 hours ago, Patriot 74 said:

Ummmmmmmmmm did  you not see the previous three posts???  The ones from 32, and oldtime???  They explained it perfectly without the "that is wrong" stuff......cheeeeeez

sr1 is always soooo tactful...LOL  Must be an English teacher.

[crimsonace1]

10 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

No...Hammond and Morton may both be Class 5A after consolidation..

..and Valparaiso goes back to 6A , I believe, if they win the 5A regional.

Valpo would need to win a semistate to move to 6A. They got 3 points last year (sect-reg-ss) and would need to repeat that path this year. A regional win would leave them with five points. (they may move up due to enrollment, though). 

[crimsonace1]

Waiting for the Department of Education to post the school count day enrollment data to be able to reasonably forecast who might be moving up/down, but they aren't moving fast enough for me yet ;). 

[JustRules]

4 hours ago, fenderbender said:

Here is how it works from what I read:

1.)  Get six points during classification period, you move up.

2.)  Get a total of 2 points during the next classification period, you stay up.

So basically, if you were moved up and then win sectionals in the next two years of the next period until the end of time the school will never drop down.

Cathedral is a pretty good example.  Still up in 5A even though they  have not won state in several years.  They are currently at 1 point and will win sectionals for sure.  (Probably 5A state champion.)

 

Winning 2 sectionals or a regional in a class is a pretty good indication you are competitive at that level.

[Gipper]

10 hours ago, Titan32 said:

sr1 is always soooo tactful...LOL  Must be an English teacher.

Tact is a good thing.

[oldunclemark]

10 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

Valpo would need to win a semistate to move to 6A. They got 3 points last year (sect-reg-ss) and would need to repeat that path this year. A regional win would leave them with five points. (they may move up due to enrollment, though). 

You are correct.

I'd be surprised if Valpo didnt play Cathedral for the 5A state title in November.

[HoopsCoach]

9 hours ago, crimsonace1 said:

Waiting for the Department of Education to post the school count day enrollment data to be able to reasonably forecast who might be moving up/down, but they aren't moving fast enough for me yet ;). 

Count day was September 18th.  Schools and corporations then have a reconciliation period that allows them to clean up any enrollment data they are required to report for funding (last chance to make sure you are claiming who you should and not claiming who you shouldn’t).  That reconciliation period ends on October 14th.  The DOE usually doesn’t post that data until about a month later.

[oldtimeqb]

9 hours ago, JustRules said:

Winning 2 sectionals or a regional in a class is a pretty good indication you are competitive at that level.

I respectfully disagree, because I don't like telling teams you are "competitive enough" to play up but can't really make a true deep run to semi state or state because they won two sectionals.  Making it 3 points is more than just an arbitrary number.  Sectionals are geographically drawn and subject to some weird lines at times.  Take Brownstown and Lawrenceburg for example (I think that is closer to your part of the state?). But they matched up in Semi-state in 2016 and first round of the sectional the next.  Winning sectional in 2017 was a much different animal than 2016 for both of them.  Southridge is currently bumped up to 3A.   A few different lines drawn and they probably win Sectional 30 last year and this year.  As it is, they didn't get out of sectional 32 which was much tougher.  My point is that just based on where the lines are drawn, some sectionals are drastically tougher than others. 

And once schools reach 5A (like New Pal, Columbus East, and Cathedral) those sectionals are only 4 teamers.  I'm not saying you have to win state like New Pal or Evansville Memorial did last year, but 2 straight sectionals is not enough for me to tell the freshmen and sophomores - Your older teammates were "competitive enough" so you have to stay in that class for your junior and senior years.       

[Coach Nowlin]

On 10/7/2020 at 10:30 AM, crimsonace1 said:

Waiting for the Department of Education to post the school count day enrollment data to be able to reasonably forecast who might be moving up/down, but they aren't moving fast enough for me yet ;). 

Always my favorite post by you my friend 

[jets]

16 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

I respectfully disagree, because I don't like telling teams you are "competitive enough" to play up but can't really make a true deep run to semi state or state because they won two sectionals.  Making it 3 points is more than just an arbitrary number.  Sectionals are geographically drawn and subject to some weird lines at times.  Take Brownstown and Lawrenceburg for example (I think that is closer to your part of the state?). But they matched up in Semi-state in 2016 and first round of the sectional the next.  Winning sectional in 2017 was a much different animal than 2016 for both of them.  Southridge is currently bumped up to 3A.   A few different lines drawn and they probably win Sectional 30 last year and this year.  As it is, they didn't get out of sectional 32 which was much tougher.  My point is that just based on where the lines are drawn, some sectionals are drastically tougher than others. 

And once schools reach 5A (like New Pal, Columbus East, and Cathedral) those sectionals are only 4 teamers.  I'm not saying you have to win state like New Pal or Evansville Memorial did last year, but 2 straight sectionals is not enough for me to tell the freshmen and sophomores - Your older teammates were "competitive enough" so you have to stay in that class for your junior and senior years.       

You mean VAUNTED Sectional 30 ....what.a.JOKE. 

 

[crimsonace1]

20 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

I respectfully disagree, because I don't like telling teams you are "competitive enough" to play up but can't really make a true deep run to semi state or state because they won two sectionals.  Making it 3 points is more than just an arbitrary number.  Sectionals are geographically drawn and subject to some weird lines at times.  Take Brownstown and Lawrenceburg for example (I think that is closer to your part of the state?). But they matched up in Semi-state in 2016 and first round of the sectional the next.  Winning sectional in 2017 was a much different animal than 2016 for both of them.  Southridge is currently bumped up to 3A.   A few different lines drawn and they probably win Sectional 30 last year and this year.  As it is, they didn't get out of sectional 32 which was much tougher.  My point is that just based on where the lines are drawn, some sectionals are drastically tougher than others.      

Remember, the original "stay up" threshold was 4 points (which would mean one state title, a semistate/sectional or two regionals). I remember leaving Lucas Oil after the insane New Palestine-Snider game in 2015 thinking "the silver lining is New Palestine will be back in 4A while it's going through a rebuilding cycle" ... and then two months later, the IHSAA changes the threshold to 3 points AND said a bumped team could only drop one class (which prevented Cathedral from dropping from 6A to 4A). It was lowered to 2 points in 2019. I believe that change was made *after* the new classifications and sectional alignments were announced. I believe Cathedral was the only football team affected, as it would've dropped to 4A but the two-point threshold kept them in 5A, although a handful of basketball teams had two points and were also affected by the change.