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Sectional 40 Final: (7-4) Mater Dei @ (8-3) Linton


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2 hours ago, Miner_Pride said:

I think injuries would still be of concern.. particularly with a kid who is very talented.  I would think the numbers would help in having that pool to replace an injured player. I'm sure there are 2nd teamers at MD who could start at other 2A schools.  Where as in Linton it's not unusual at all to have sophomores and on occasion a freshman start simply because there aren't numbers... not saying they aren't very good freshmen or sophomores.  In fact I see 3 sophs  starting on Offense at MD.... like Linton...both QBs are sophs.  Both teams have a soph starting on Defense as well. 

Well of course injuries are a concern.  I just meant they are lesser of a concern due to having such a large roster.

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8 minutes ago, MDAlum82 said:

The only "non-public" schools that exist in Evansville are the two catholic schools, Mater Dei & Memorial, Evansville Day School - a true private school ($$$), and Evansville Christian School, which opened 3-4 yrs ago.  What people cannot seem to grasp - or simply don't want to - about the "recruiting" situation btwn these schools is there really isn't any to speak of. There is a lot of family tradition and territorial loyalty that exist among Mater Dei & Memorial famlies.

Generally, kids who grow up on the East side and attend the east deanery schools, attend Memorial.  Kids from the west side and west deanery school, generally attend Mater Dei.  I say "generally" because there are a number of kids, esp on the west side, who leave the catholic feeder schools to attend Reitz.  Academically, Reitz is a very well-regarded school, easily on par with MD with none of the extra cost. That is a factor for some families.  Rarely do west side kids end up at Memorial or vice versa. 

As an example, Paul McIntosh, the great QB of what are considered to be some of the best Reitz teams ever, was a west side catholic feeder school kid who could have gone to MD but chose RHS.  It is rare for kids who attended EVSC grade schools to attend MD.  It does happen, but very rarely.  I say this as a past member of the Evv Catholic School Board, privy to the numbers from all school across the Diocese & EVSC.

And having served on the same board and seeing the same data, this is 100% correct.   

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26 minutes ago, MDAlum82 said:

The only "non-public" schools that exist in Evansville are the two catholic schools, Mater Dei & Memorial, Evansville Day School - a true private school ($$$), and Evansville Christian School, which opened 3-4 yrs ago.  What people cannot seem to grasp - or simply don't want to - about the "recruiting" situation btwn these schools is there really isn't any to speak of. There is a lot of family tradition and territorial loyalty that exist among Mater Dei & Memorial famlies.

Generally, kids who grow up on the East side and attend the east deanery schools, attend Memorial.  Kids from the west side and west deanery school, generally attend Mater Dei.  I say "generally" because there are a number of kids, esp on the west side, who leave the catholic feeder schools to attend Reitz.  Academically, Reitz is a very well-regarded school, easily on par with MD with none of the extra cost. That is a factor for some families.  Rarely do west side kids end up at Memorial or vice versa. 

As an example, Paul McIntosh, the great QB of what are considered to be some of the best Reitz teams ever, was a west side catholic feeder school kid who could have gone to MD but chose RHS.  It is rare for kids who attended EVSC grade schools to attend MD.  It does happen, but very rarely.  I say this as a past member of the Evv Catholic School Board, privy to the numbers from all school across the Diocese & EVSC.

Thanks for this info MDAlum82...  I had alot of family in Evansville for a long time... always knew that family tradition played a big role in schools...  I recall Evansville Lincoln back in the way back maching... not to mention Rex Mundi.. where'd they figure in that mix?

 

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1 minute ago, Miner_Pride said:

Thanks for this info MDAlum82...  I had alot of family in Evansville for a long time... always knew that family tradition played a big role in schools...  I recall Evansville Lincoln back in the way back maching... not to mention Rex Mundi.. where'd they figure in that mix?

 

The diocese closed Rex Mundi in 1972 when it became clear we could not support 3 Catholic high schools in Evansville.      

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21 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

Well of course injuries are a concern.  I just meant they are lesser of a concern due to having such a large roster.

Let's take your freshman team argument from a few posts back.  In the 2019-2020 school year, Mater Dei's freshman class was 128 students(right in line with other schools in the sectional except Linton who is a little smaller school).  Linton's freshman class was 105.  Assuming half of those are males, MD had a 64 kid pool to possibly play football and Linton had 52.  So Mater Dei get's 25 + of those kids out playing football and Linton doesn't have enough to form a team(in your words).  Numbers wise, there's not a big difference between the 2 schools class size wise.  Isn't it part of the equation for a football head coach and program to get as many of those kids out playing football as possible?

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11 hours ago, JQWL said:

I just asked a buddy of mine that teaches at WRV how many kids do you guys lose to Linton for football? He said 2or 3 out of every class. WRV has looked into adding football to help in keeping their kids.

Witch i know for the short time i lived in Elnora, North Daviess always had kids that lived around Newberry witch is WRV to go there to play football.

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13 hours ago, JQWL said:

I just asked a buddy of mine that teaches at WRV how many kids do you guys lose to Linton for football? He said 2or 3 out of every class. WRV has looked into adding football to help in keeping their kids.

Witch i know for the short time i lived in Elnora, North Daviess always phad kids that lived around Newberry witch is WRV to go there to play football.

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sorry for double post. Linton had a freshman team i know back in 95 97.  An just because you hot alot of kids doesnt translate into wins. It always makes me shake my head when people go on about a 1A school besting like 3a school. Just cause they got more kids only 11 can play at a time.

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we haven't had a freshman team in years.. I don't know that I ever remember one since waaaay back maybe 70's.  We played some "C" games this year... but our JV against bigger schools C... we just don't have number.  I know your numbers say other wise... but jeez I can't imagine 52 boys in a class.. .. we only have 5 seniors this year.. .but a large junior class...and it looks scary down the road.. our junior high turnout is low...  Kids today... at least in our neck of the woods... simply do NOT want to put the work in... they don't want to do it... they wanna sit at home.. play video game and be on the phone.... it's a real shame.   everyone one wants the reward without the dedication..  

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14 hours ago, Uncle Rico said:

Let's take your freshman team argument from a few posts back.  In the 2019-2020 school year, Mater Dei's freshman class was 128 students(right in line with other schools in the sectional except Linton who is a little smaller school).  Linton's freshman class was 105.  Assuming half of those are males, MD had a 64 kid pool to possibly play football and Linton had 52.  So Mater Dei get's 25 + of those kids out playing football and Linton doesn't have enough to form a team(in your words).  Numbers wise, there's not a big difference between the 2 schools class size wise.  Isn't it part of the equation for a football head coach and program to get as many of those kids out playing football as possible?

Your math is quite a bit off there Uncle.  Linton NEVER has 25 out for football in a class.  You look at this year's roster.   There are 42.  That is an average of 10.5 per class.  The senior class only has 5.   And when you consider the Freshmen are playing on JV to be able to have a JV team the reality of the situation is there isn't enough for a freshman team.  So those are not just "my words". I realize it isn't another school's fault for another school's numbers.  My point to this whole discussion was how many "extra" numbers that MD gets over other schools.   75 on your roster (and someone posted that will be bigger now that freshman season is over.  So you average 25 per class if you don't count your freshman. If you think about it, that is superior numbers over a lot of other schools.  You may argue that numbers don't equate to wins, but it gives a team an advantage over choices of who you can draw the talent from.   Not to mention having most of your starters playing only one way.  In small school ball that is huge.  Your team stays fresher for 4 quarters especially with the linemen.

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11 minutes ago, Ugminer said:

My freshman year was 95 we actually had a straight freshman team. I mean i dont remember how many games we played, but we did have a freshman team an schedule.

Idk maybe im second guessing myself here now. Lol who knows

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I have never once bashed on Mater Dei for their numbers in any of my posts.   I just find it amazing that a school that small can have 75 on a roster when NO ONE goes there to play football and they haven't won a lot of titles.   I give them kudos for their participation, but (LOL) still say it's an advantage over other schools their size.  That isn't bashing, just a fact.   Who has a better chance at winning the lottery?   a person with 75 tickets or one with 40?  Eh, maybe that wasn't a great analogy.  LOL

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It is just very hard for people to understand that some schools have very good/successful high school football programs. The better your coach/program, the more wins you get. The more wins you get, the more people want to be apart of that program. Kids want to be apart of successful programs. 

If your band is constantly winning/going to state, odds are they are going to have more kids join band. I am not saying Linton isn't a successful program (because that would be a lie), they just aren't as successful in 2A. "there is no chance we can win sectional, why should we even play" 

Mater Dei has a legitimate shot to represent the south half of Indiana every single year. That looming in their student body probably makes kids think "I want to be apart of that"

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1 hour ago, itiswhatitis said:

Your math is quite a bit off there Uncle.  Linton NEVER has 25 out for football in a class.  You look at this year's roster.   There are 42.  That is an average of 10.5 per class.  The senior class only has 5.   And when you consider the Freshmen are playing on JV to be able to have a JV team the reality of the situation is there isn't enough for a freshman team.  So those are not just "my words". I realize it isn't another school's fault for another school's numbers.  My point to this whole discussion was how many "extra" numbers that MD gets over other schools.   75 on your roster (and someone posted that will be bigger now that freshman season is over.  So you average 25 per class if you don't count your freshman. If you think about it, that is superior numbers over a lot of other schools.  You may argue that numbers don't equate to wins, but it gives a team an advantage over choices of who you can draw the talent from.   Not to mention having most of your starters playing only one way.  In small school ball that is huge.  Your team stays fresher for 4 quarters especially with the linemen.

I think the roster on MaxPreps is incorrect.  I see two listed that did not play this year.  They added 11 freshman to the roster for the post season.  Several of those kids didn't dress against North Knox.  We did not dress 75 and then increase it with the freshman.

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34 minutes ago, RoadRunner said:

It is just very hard for people to understand that some schools have very good/successful high school football programs. The better your coach/program, the more wins you get. The more wins you get, the more people want to be apart of that program. Kids want to be apart of successful programs. 

If your band is constantly winning/going to state, odds are they are going to have more kids join band. I am not saying Linton isn't a successful program (because that would be a lie), they just aren't as successful in 2A. "there is no chance we can win sectional, why should we even play" 

Mater Dei has a legitimate shot to represent the south half of Indiana every single year. That looming in their student body probably makes kids think "I want to be apart of that"

I agree that coaching has a lot to do with success.   However I feel that numbers are the start.  Even coaches who are considered the best still need numbers.   The more you have, the better off you are.  It's a good problem for a coach to have a choice between 4 running backs vice one or 2.   Even with success, I see numbers as how a program is sustained.  I get that some kids want to play for a winner. and some feel it's a waste of their time to play for a team that doesn't have any success.  That's the mentality of teenagers.   I have just as much respect (and sometimes more) for those who still play on teams and still put in the work who aren't as successful.  I've been to Linton games and seen kids on the other team play and just admire their "game".   You could tell they were the best player on that team and would sometimes wonder how they would be on another team.  I suppose that happens all across America and not just in Indiana.   And yes, I may sound like a homer, but Linton does have a successful program, but most of it has been in 1A.   Coach Oliver and his staff are too good not to figure out how to start winning in 2A.  It's only going to be a matter of time.  Once you start winning some sectionals, the rest will follow.  There's usually that one class that comes along and puts down that foundation for the program to build on.  I've seen it happen and not just at Linton.

 

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3 minutes ago, Wildcat1992 said:

I think the roster on MaxPreps is incorrect.  I see two listed that did not play this year.  They added 11 freshman to the roster for the post season.  Several of those kids didn't dress against North Knox.  We did not dress 75 and then increase it with the freshman.

I was using 75 because someone else said they had the roster in their hand and that was the number they quoted in their post.   Don't know the source they were using.  I do know the integrity of the poster and they wouldn't exaggerate or lie.  

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1 hour ago, itiswhatitis said:

Your math is quite a bit off there Uncle.  Linton NEVER has 25 out for football in a class.  You look at this year's roster.   There are 42.  That is an average of 10.5 per class.  The senior class only has 5.   And when you consider the Freshmen are playing on JV to be able to have a JV team the reality of the situation is there isn't enough for a freshman team.  So those are not just "my words". I realize it isn't another school's fault for another school's numbers.  My point to this whole discussion was how many "extra" numbers that MD gets over other schools.   75 on your roster (and someone posted that will be bigger now that freshman season is over.  So you average 25 per class if you don't count your freshman. If you think about it, that is superior numbers over a lot of other schools.  You may argue that numbers don't equate to wins, but it gives a team an advantage over choices of who you can draw the talent from.   Not to mention having most of your starters playing only one way.  In small school ball that is huge.  Your team stays fresher for 4 quarters especially with the linemen.

That's the point that he is trying to make. Linton has around 105 kids in their freshman class, but don't get 25 of them out for football. MD has around 128 in their freshman class, but gets 25 or more to come out for football. Sure, having an extra 25 kids per class gives you a better chance of getting 25 out but you still gotta be able to pull the numbers from what you've got. 

I don't really buy into the enrollment=success argument much. Doesn't matter how many options your kids have for prom dates compared to mine, if my kids are bigger, faster, and stronger than yours I'm going to win 9 out of 10 times. Just like back in the day when LCC was routing everyone with a much smaller enrollment than their competition. New Palestine has built a dynasty of a program in 4A-5A playing 8-9 kids both ways every game, it's all about who can adapt and play the best with what they got. 

Anyway, this has been fun - you got some conversation happening again on Linton threads! 😉 

I've got the Miners winning tonight in a close game. They make a big play late - turnover or 4th down stop on D to seal it. Good luck to both teams, should be an awesome game!

 

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10 minutes ago, itiswhatitis said:

I was using 75 because someone else said they had the roster in their hand and that was the number they quoted in their post.   Don't know the source they were using.  I do know the integrity of the poster and they wouldn't exaggerate or lie.  

The roster that gets handed out at games now includes freshman

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I've enjoyed the discussion that has been going on the past few days.  And NO ONE has been disrespectful.   That is what has been so great about it.  (For me) It's always great to talk with other fans.   I seriously doubt most of the Mater Dei fans would have posted much on here this week if this topic hadn't been brought up.  I have a great respect for Mater Dei and their fans.   Most of them are well informed and articulate.   It has been a fun week chatting.   Now it is less than 12 hours to game time.   It's really a shame they aren't allowing fans in the game.  There is nothing like a playoff game at Roy Williams Field.   It is ALWAYS electric and the Miners feed off of that energy.

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14 minutes ago, TrenchWarfare58 said:

That's the point that he is trying to make. Linton has around 105 kids in their freshman class, but don't get 25 of them out for football. MD has around 128 in their freshman class, but gets 25 or more to come out for football. Sure, having an extra 25 kids per class gives you a better chance of getting 25 out but you still gotta be able to pull the numbers from what you've got. 

I don't really buy into the enrollment=success argument much. Doesn't matter how many options your kids have for prom dates compared to mine, if my kids are bigger, faster, and stronger than yours I'm going to win 9 out of 10 times. Just like back in the day when LCC was routing everyone with a much smaller enrollment than their competition. New Palestine has built a dynasty of a program in 4A-5A playing 8-9 kids both ways every game, it's all about who can adapt and play the best with what they got. 

Anyway, this has been fun - you got some conversation happening again on Linton threads! 😉 

I've got the Miners winning tonight in a close game. They make a big play late - turnover or 4th down stop on D to seal it. Good luck to both teams, should be an awesome game!

 

Good point on LCC. One of the smallest in 1As and had almost 60 on the team 10 years ago. Did they all go there to play football? I gotta go 

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12 minutes ago, TrenchWarfare58 said:

That's the point that he is trying to make. Linton has around 105 kids in their freshman class, but don't get 25 of them out for football. MD has around 128 in their freshman class, but gets 25 or more to come out for football. Sure, having an extra 25 kids per class gives you a better chance of getting 25 out but you still gotta be able to pull the numbers from what you've got. 

I don't really buy into the enrollment=success argument much. Doesn't matter how many options your kids have for prom dates compared to mine, if my kids are bigger, faster, and stronger than yours I'm going to win 9 out of 10 times. Just like back in the day when LCC was routing everyone with a much smaller enrollment than their competition. New Palestine has built a dynasty of a program in 4A-5A playing 8-9 kids both ways every game, it's all about who can adapt and play the best with what they got. 

Anyway, this has been fun - you got some conversation happening again on Linton threads! 😉 

I've got the Miners winning tonight in a close game. They make a big play late - turnover or 4th down stop on D to seal it. Good luck to both teams, should be an awesome game!

 

That's bold!  I think  you are the only one who has picked them.   Hoping for a good game and hoping its close throughout.   Just how a title game should be,.  The 2 best going at it and leaving it all on the feld.

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I usually try not to "fall into the trap", but I have some time. We started our Mater Dei experience in 1983 as part of the Cluster system. They cursed us, spat on us, berated us and beat the crap out of us for many years.  After 8 straight losses over 19 years, we finally turned the tables, winning six of the next ten. 

Yes, they have a bigger roster. And no they don't have kids who would rather play video games than excel at school and extracurriculars. Their parents don't pay tuition for them to be slugs. While the public school enrollment is increased with a diversity of kids who will never play anything. (If we could only ship them to Sullivan or Jasper!)

 

Granted, over the years Mater Dei has lost some kids to the glitz and glamor of other schools. But the tradition which is Mater Dei will never die. So if you want to beat them stop worrying about the number on the sideline and focus on the 11 guys on the field. And by that I mean YOUR 11.

Stop the run, change coverages, disguise coverages and "Run the damn ball!"

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23 hours ago, itiswhatitis said:

Parents at WRV have been wanting to add football for years as far back as the early 2000's that I know of.   Bloomfield tried recently.  They keep getting shot down.   Apparently too many people still have a basketball only mentality or something like that. Or they don't want to spend the money.   You know they should just consolidate all 5 schools and just called it Greene County.  Of course that would put them in 3A or 4A for enrollment.   But 5 schools into one would really boost ALL sports in Greene County and no more kids  would have to leave one school to go to another for just one sport.

It wouldn't be feasible to have one school in Greene County due to the geographic size of the county.  Two schools definitely does make sense though with east and west divided by White river which splits the county down the middle.  Eastern And Bloomfield in the east with WRV, Linton and Shakamak in the west.  That should have been done long ago. 

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1 hour ago, RoadRunner said:

It is just very hard for people to understand that some schools have very good/successful high school football programs. The better your coach/program, the more wins you get. The more wins you get, the more people want to be apart of that program. Kids want to be apart of successful programs. 

If your band is constantly winning/going to state, odds are they are going to have more kids join band. I am not saying Linton isn't a successful program (because that would be a lie), they just aren't as successful in 2A. "there is no chance we can win sectional, why should we even play" 

Mater Dei has a legitimate shot to represent the south half of Indiana every single year. That looming in their student body probably makes kids think "I want to be apart of that"

EXACTLY!  Very well put.  MD "recruits" new kids everytime they face the crowd and raise their helmets after victory.  Kids of all ages are sitting in the stands (at least in a normal year!)see that and want to be a part of it.  I imagine this is no different than most successful programs be it sports, band, cheer, STEM, etc.  Success breeds success.

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