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Cathedral vs. Whiteland - Regional Championship


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46 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

What do you mean football magnets?

The only common bond Cathedral and IMG share is the fact they are both technically considered high schools and that is about it. And this doesn't start and stop with football, but IMG's sole person is to offer an education to athletes looking to enhance their athletic ability. It's literally in their mission statement. You don't go to IMG unless you have legitimate professional aspirations in your desired sport. 

A football magnet is a school that draws students athletes from a broad geographical area for the primary purpose of participating in said schools elite high school football program.

The IMG Football magnet draws student athletes from throughout the state of Florida, as well as throughout the entire southeast as well as other regions of the country.  Student athletes pay tuition to attend IMG and receive high level personalized coaching and skill development, get the opportunity to travel and play out of state, and have high level exposure to college recruiters.

The Cathedral Football magnet draws student athletes from throughout the City of Indianapolis, as well as throughout the entire Indy Metro area,  including some of the very best student athletes living outside of CHs' home diocese.    Student athletes pay tuition to attend Cathedral and receive high level personalized coaching and skill development, get the opportunity to travel and play out of state, and have high level exposure to college recruiters.

Lots of similarities between the two, while operating at different levels of competitiveness.

 

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On 11/8/2020 at 2:36 PM, PHJIrish said:

I've been told that this game will be played at Tech.  I think the IHSAA doesn't want schools playing on grass this late in the playoff. We've been really lucky this year weather wise.  I hope it continues.  

Can anyone verify that this game is indeed at Tech?

Confirmed via IndyStar today.

 

Game at Arlington.

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Cathedral hasn't played in a 4A tournament in almost a decade. Cathedral loads up on its regular season schedule due to the terrible postseason format the IHSAA has regulated.

With no penalty or reward for regular season play, why wouldn't you do anything but play the best competition that gets you ready for the postseason? Is taking advantage of a poor system the fault of Cathedral?

I dont think there is anything wrong with the Indiana post season tournament.  It works perfectly for the state in terms of size, travel and number of schools participating.  And it reflects the states basketball first DNA.  

But lets not for a moment assume that all schools are created equal.  I happen to believe that the very best should seek to compete at the highest possible level.  After the top tier 6A schools, your next level of strength are the large PPs.  And that gap is very small, depending on the year.  

But this is not just a 6A discussion.,  This issue permeates the post season at every class designation.  It has been mentioned many times that Class 4A has been hollowed out by the SF.  The 2.0 Multiplier fixes that problem immediately.  

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50 minutes ago, Dave007 said:

If we win state this year and next year, we will be in 6A regardless who wants us there or not.

Not disagreeing with the premise of your argument, but I believe Cathedral is guaranteed 5A the next two years after this season regardless. This is year two of the "cycle", and even with a state championship this year, they will not have accumulated enough points to move up to 6A next year.  They would have to win state next year and then win at least regionals in 2022 to bump up to 6A.

54 minutes ago, Dave007 said:

As far as 'self designate as a 6A program' I don't think schools can do that even if they wanted too.

Would be curious if anyone know the answer to this?  If a school shares DT's competitive ambitions and wishes to play up in class, would the IHSAA even allow that?

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10 minutes ago, TheDoctor22 said:

Not disagreeing with the premise of your argument, but I believe Cathedral is guaranteed 5A the next two years after this season regardless. This is year two of the "cycle", and even with a state championship this year, they will not have accumulated enough points to move up to 6A next year.  They would have to win state next year and then win at least regionals in 2022 to bump up to 6A.

Would be curious if anyone know the answer to this?  If a school shares DT's competitive ambitions and wishes to play up in class, would the IHSAA even allow that?

Yes. Mishawaka did that for a few years. Played in 5A as a 4A when the IHSAA initially went to 6 classes. Could be argued that 4A was stronger than 5A and that was a primary reason. 

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36 minutes ago, TheDoctor22 said:

Not disagreeing with the premise of your argument, but I believe Cathedral is guaranteed 5A the next two years after this season regardless. This is year two of the "cycle", and even with a state championship this year, they will not have accumulated enough points to move up to 6A next year.  They would have to win state next year and then win at least regionals in 2022 to bump up to 6A.

Would be curious if anyone know the answer to this?  If a school shares DT's competitive ambitions and wishes to play up in class, would the IHSAA even allow that?

Thanks for the information, that makes sense and to be honest I get confused on how point system works.

Speaking of which - what is Chatards situation?  I would assume when they win 3A again this year it is without question they will be in 4A for 2021-? season(s)?

 

Thanks again for insight, good topic discussion!

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4 hours ago, GC42 said:

Cathedral hasn't been to the dome since 2014. Calling them the "IMG" of Indiana football because they're having a good season is a bit of a stretch.

Guerin sucks

7 hours ago, DT said:

That sounds very disrespectful to Whiteland who is in the midst of the most successful season in school history.  They would be wise to post the comments of yourself and a few of your cohorts in the lockerroom for additional motivation.  There is nothing more motivating for a gritty community like Whiteland than the knowledge that your snooty rich competitor is looking down his nose at you before a big game.  

"snooty rich competitor" alright you liberal

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2 hours ago, TheDoctor22 said:

Not disagreeing with the premise of your argument, but I believe Cathedral is guaranteed 5A the next two years after this season regardless. This is year two of the "cycle", and even with a state championship this year, they will not have accumulated enough points to move up to 6A next year.  They would have to win state next year and then win at least regionals in 2022 to bump up to 6A.

Would be curious if anyone know the answer to this?  If a school shares DT's competitive ambitions and wishes to play up in class, would the IHSAA even allow that?

Yes.  Mishawaka chose to stay in 5a when they were slated for demotion to 4a

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3 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Could be argued that 4A was stronger than 5A and that was a primary reason.

Yeah sort of where I was going with that. I think there have been years recently where 3A was probably stronger than 4A top to bottom.

2 hours ago, Dave007 said:

Speaking of which - what is Chatards situation?

I'm no expert on the rules either, but I believe if Chatard wins their regional game this Friday, they are going up to 4A for '21-22 seasons regardless of whether they win state again.  I obviously want them to win every game, but I have been really hoping they make it far enough to make the jump to 4A.  I tend to agree with DT here, at least in Chatard's case, that I'd like to see them up a class.  We can argue all day about who belongs in which class, but I think there's nothing more impressive than teams like Memorial, New Pal, Columbus East, and Cathedral that have bumped up a class and still been very successful. 

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36 minutes ago, TheDoctor22 said:

Yeah sort of where I was going with that. I think there have been years recently where 3A was probably stronger than 4A top to bottom.

I'm no expert on the rules either, but I believe if Chatard wins their regional game this Friday, they are going up to 4A for '21-22 seasons regardless of whether they win state again.  I obviously want them to win every game, but I have been really hoping they make it far enough to make the jump to 4A.  I tend to agree with DT here, at least in Chatard's case, that I'd like to see them up a class.  We can argue all day about who belongs in which class, but I think there's nothing more impressive than teams like Memorial, New Pal, Columbus East, and Cathedral that have bumped up a class and still been very successful. 

Agree with you on all points above.  Also, just to confirm, Chatard will move up if they defeat Concordia on Friday.

Like you, I want Chatard to be in 4A and have for a long time (but that’s no reason to move up all the other PPs per some on other threads) but the 3 prior years I’d argue that 3A was more challenging than this new “hollowed out” 4A.  This year, though, I think 4A is deeper overall than 3A.

Also like you, I have nothing but admiration for what Memorial, New Pal, Columbus East and Cathedral have done while bumped up (a little jealous Memorial pulled off a 4A championship first).

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On 11/9/2020 at 2:57 PM, DT said:

A football magnet is a school that draws students athletes from a broad geographical area for the primary purpose of participating in said schools elite high school football program.

The IMG Football magnet draws student athletes from throughout the state of Florida, as well as throughout the entire southeast as well as other regions of the country.  Student athletes pay tuition to attend IMG and receive high level personalized coaching and skill development, get the opportunity to travel and play out of state, and have high level exposure to college recruiters.

The Cathedral Football magnet draws student athletes from throughout the City of Indianapolis, as well as throughout the entire Indy Metro area,  including some of the very best student athletes living outside of CHs' home diocese.    Student athletes pay tuition to attend Cathedral and receive high level personalized coaching and skill development, get the opportunity to travel and play out of state, and have high level exposure to college recruiters.

Lots of similarities between the two, while operating at different levels of competitiveness.

 

I have football magnets all over my fridge!

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I have watched a lot of film this week. Whiteland is big and physical. Strength is definitely run game. Cathedral defense stops run first. May bend alittle but rarely breaks. Whiteland lulls you to sleep and then passes to TE. Irish will be ready for this. Offensively, irish skilled players are too fast to be covered by man defense. Huge advantage for Cathedral. I don't think Whiteland can come from behind. Irish 35-14

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On 11/9/2020 at 1:51 PM, Footballking16 said:

Cathedral hasn't played in a 4A tournament in almost a decade. Cathedral loads up on its regular season schedule due to the terrible postseason format the IHSAA has regulated.

Part of the reason why is the IHSAA changes the Success Factor threshholds every time Cathedral is about to drop. Not sure if it's just coincidence, but the change from 4 points to 3 to stay up (and the "you can't drop more than one division" rule) came after Cathedral was going to drop to 4A, and it was again adjusted from 3 points to 2 when Cathedral would have dropped to 4A (and the entire 4A & 5A tournament fields were reshuffled because the classes and sectionals had already been announced). 

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1 minute ago, crimsonace1 said:

Part of the reason why is the IHSAA changes the Success Factor threshholds every time Cathedral is about to drop. Not sure if it's just coincidence, but the change from 4 points to 3 to stay up (and the "you can't drop more than one division" rule) came after Cathedral was going to drop to 4A, and it was again adjusted from 3 points to 2 when Cathedral would have dropped to 4A (and the entire 4A & 5A tournament fields were reshuffled because the classes and sectionals had already been announced). 

All the more reason to leave Cathedral locked into 6A long term.

Every year, Cathedral is a Top 5 team in Indiana.  There is no logical reason for them to play anywhee but in 6A.  Can you imagine how the Cathedral kids would respond if they had another shot at Center Grove in the south semi state?  Thats the way it should be

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1 minute ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

Really small O Line....

C32A2F72-B92F-44B3-A607-265DE20798C0.png

With the fly offense, it's all about angles and quick get-offs from the offensive line. For their small size, they are super physical, but it won't be enough against the Irish. I say 42-14 Cathedral. 

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3 minutes ago, IndianaWrestlingGuy said:

Really small O Line....

C32A2F72-B92F-44B3-A607-265DE20798C0.png

Myers is very good. Their offense is very simple and geared toward being effective even with small linemen. They run it very well. It's a very unique offense based on a lot of misdirection - there's a jet sweep action on almost every play and then a power going to the opposite side ... and play action off that if you sell out to stop the run. They have 11 TDs on 23 completed passes this year. 

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