LaSalle Lions 1976 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Well if we are all about out of bounds thinking and really leveling the field for all high school teams. P/P schools 2.0 Single High School Districts 1.5 Let's get wacky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, DT said: The last time we went through this exercise, the Success Factor was the outcome of our efforts. Perhaps we will have the opportunity to influence policy and decision making once again. Wow....you’re taking credit for that? I thought megalomania was something I only read about as regards Dr. Doom in the Fantastic Four.............when I was 8. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Lysander said: Wow....you’re taking credit for that? I thought megalomania was something I only read about as regards Dr. Doom in the Fantastic Four.............when I was 8. 4 minutes ago, Lysander said: Wow....you’re taking credit for that? I thought megalomania was something I only read about as regards Dr. Doom in the Fantastic Four.............when I was 8. Absolutely. You and your cohorts deserve credit as well. We all participated in a massive lobbyinmg effort which lead to the implementation of The SF. I thought that was common knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Just now, DT said: Absolutely. You and your cohorts deserve credit as well. We all participated in a massive lobbyinmg effort which lead to the implementation of The SF. I thought that was common knowledge. So I deserve a medal too? This just gets better and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Lysander said: Muda....thanks for the downtick it reminds me of the good old days when we fought like cats and dogs and you had some semblance of a spine. Makes me sad seeing you a lapdog for DT....feel for ya’. I have already voiced my opinion in this thread of what is best for competitive balance in Indiana high school football. Sorry that isn't enough "spine" for you. And I will stand up for somebody I consider a friend, and do it with downvotes if necessary. Interesting to see you get butt hurt about it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Muda69 said: I have already voiced my opinion in this thread of what is best for competitive balance in Indiana high school football. Sorry that isn't enough "spine" for you. And I will stand up for somebody I consider a friend, and do it with downvotes if necessary. Interesting to see you get butt hurt about it. My butt is fine.....”panther-like” I’ve been told....whatever that might mean.....I’ll take it as a compliment, though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Lysander said: My butt is fine.....”panther-like” I’ve been told....whatever that might mean.....I’ll take it as a compliment, though.. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/butthurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Just now, Muda69 said: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/butthurt Thanks....errr...seems to me someone else here has some certain soreness... I’m just a happy panther. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Lysander said: Thanks....errr...seems to me someone else here has some certain soreness... No, just you. Sore about getting a downvote. Hence your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Just now, Muda69 said: No, just you. Sore about getting a downvote. Hence your response. Naw...it was actually reassuring to me that you were still around....otherwise I wouldn’t have even noticed.....lapdogs get so little credit...deservedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazed and confused Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 23 hours ago, Spitting Llamas said: I'm not sure why what we are currently using doesn't work. If a team is successful and earns enough points they "bump up". If they continue to be successful they continue to move up the ladder. Maybe we change the points system or what it takes to "bump up", but just moving all private schools up based on twice their enrollment regardless of success seems ignorant. There is no reason a school of any size should be penalized and placed in a class well above their enrollment when they might have an absolutely horrible athletic program. Indiana classed all sports many years ago to give more kids a chance to be successful. Now it appears some don't feel the right people are benefitting from classification. Not all sports... xcountry, swimming, wrestling and track are not multi class 35 minutes ago, Muda69 said: No, just you. Sore about getting a downvote. Hence your response. I get it.... your downvote was because you liked his response, not that YOU were butthurt ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Lysander said: Makes me sad seeing you a lapdog for DT....feel for ya’. I think before one can be the lapdog, one has to be the sock puppy. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebuck Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 On 11/8/2020 at 9:03 PM, DT said: Covid has had a devastating and long term impact on many high school athletic programs across the state. Unfortunately, those who could least afford to deal with the impact of Covid are being hit the hardest, and their ability to compete in this brave new world has been compromised. Conversely, wealthy school districts and PPs have the deep pockets and overall resources to navigate the pandemic and come out stronger on the other side. Given the events of the past 12 months and the outcomes that we have seen playod out on the athletic fields across the state, its time for The IHSAA to step back in and revisit the issue of competitive balance between and amongst its member institutions. One of COVIDS unintended consequences has been to further the competitive gap between the haves and the have nots, taking an ever dwindling number of post season contenders and further reducing that once again. Two findamental changes are needed to further addrewss the widening gulf that is separating the haves from the have nots, especiually in high cost sports such as football. 1. Roll back the Success Factor to include Indiana Public Schools only. 2. Institute the Mandatory 2.0 PP Multiplier, whereas all PP schools will have their actual enrollments multiplied by "2" to achieve class designation. We are seeing a new period of emerging PP dominance, due primarily to the PPs ability to better manage and manuever their way thru the COVID Pandemic. Most observers will agree that common sense would dictate that PP football programs generally play "up" during the regular season and "down" during the post season. This reality defies all good logic and common sense, and clearly has a negative overall impact on competitive balance within the classes. Under this new proposal, PPs will accept their new 2.0 Multiplied Classification, or have the option to contract their football program. There are several throughout the state that might seriously consider contraction. Below is a recap of the new enrollment numbers to be used for classification purposes : Roncalli 1188/2376 6A Cathedral 1099/2198 6A Dwenger 1015/2030 6A SB St Joe 857/1714 5A Brebeuf 791/1582 5A Guerin 761/1522 5A Chatard 714/1428 4A Marian 645/1290 4A Ev Memorial 609/1218 4A Ritter 566/1132 4A Luers 542/1084 4A Mater Dei 497/994 4A Heritage Christian 462/924 4A Bishop Noll 460/920 4A (Contract) Scecina 427/854 4A Andrean 414/828 4A Covenent Christian 365/730 3A LCC 287/574 3A Ind Lutheran 225/450 2A Traders Point Christian 128/256 (Auto minimum 1 class bump) When Private schools take over 6A then where? MAC or Big 10? Why not make your school better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 36 minutes ago, Mebuck said: When Private schools take over 6A then where? MAC or Big 10? Why not make your school better. I like the idea of having private school representation across all classes, with the exception of 1A. I believe Dwenger would step up its program, a notch or two higher if it were heading for 6A. Dont you agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mebuck Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, DT said: I like the idea of having private school representation across all classes, with the exception of 1A. I believe Dwenger would step up its program, a notch or two higher if it were heading for 6A. Dont you agree? Your only as good as your feeder schools. BD will see a very large down fall the next few years. In my opinion football is on it's way out. Probably another 10 years it will be a club sport. Hate to say that, but less kids are interested. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Mebuck said: Your only as good as your feeder schools. BD will see a very large down fall the next few years. In my opinion football is on it's way out. Probably another 10 years it will be a club sport. Hate to say that, but less kids are interested. Wow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStatGuy Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 14 hours ago, Lysander said: Muda....thanks for the downtick it reminds me of the good old days when we fought like cats and dogs and you had some semblance of a spine. Makes me sad seeing you a lapdog for DT....feel for ya’. Honestly I can barely tell DT and Muda apart anymore and he calls me a weak minded follower. 9 hours ago, DT said: Wow I thought you weren't gonna do any threads until after the season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 16 hours ago, gonzoron said: I think before one can be the lapdog, one has to be the sock puppy. Something that you and BARRYOSAMA know all about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 16 hours ago, Lysander said: Naw...it was actually reassuring to me that you were still around....otherwise I wouldn’t have even noticed.....lapdogs get so little credit...deservedly. Nice to know that you believe individuals who freely support each other are "lapdogs". You must be quite the rugged individualist, butthurt over a downvote and all. Who are your lapdogs Lysander? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 4 hours ago, TheStatGuy said: Honestly I can barely tell DT and Muda apart anymore and he calls me a weak minded follower. Wow, you suckers really don't comprehend much when you read these threads, do you? For the record I don't agree with DT that a 2.0 multiplier is the way to go, and have not for several years. If the IHSA doggedly decides to stick to an enrollment-based classification system then IMHO an automatic one class bump up for all P/P's is the fairest way to go. None of this multiplier stuff that would allow the p/p's to manipulate their 9-12 enrollment in order to maintain the football hegemony they already enjoy. As as I have stated on this thread an numerous others IMO a true system of relegation/promotion with enrollment a complete, 100% non-factor is the way to go. If that view along with me upvoting DT makes me a "lapdog" and "weak minded follower" then so be it. I've taken the dogpiling by you trolls before, and I'll take it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 5 hours ago, TheStatGuy said: Honestly I can barely tell DT and Muda apart anymore and he calls me a weak minded follower. I thought you weren't gonna do any threads until after the season? Im glad I did this thread because the response and the comments reflect the changing demographic, socio economic and cultural changes we have seen right here on The GID over the past 5 years. We have a lot of newbies here , generally who sku younger, more rural and more lower income, that have little to no interest in the PP issues. These fans are very regional and insular in nature, and many lack the education, experience or vocabulary skills to engage in deep conversation over these types of topics. Frankly, I think many are a little intimidated to step into the fray. The bottom line for most, however, is they lack the depth of knowledge and the desire to get involved. This group stays deep into the woods in the conference threads. Then you have the old PP crowd, who for the most part have moved on. For them, the war was fought and is now over. The PPs have also somewhat retreated into their own little corner, The Circle City Conference is the biggest example of this . When the Indy public school conferences shunned PP advances for membership, the PPS decided to go their own way. For the most part, the move has been sucessful as regular season schedules have filled nicely and the PPs take care of their own by not beating each other down too much within the conference. GID leadership has maintained a posture of nuetrality and their non participation in the competitive balance issue has generally lead to complate and total forum apathy relative to the subject. Tim Adams was a staunch supporter of the PPs. He was well aware of their inherent built in advantages. But as an active assistant football coach, he also acknowledged that only hard work and dedication would allow the publics to overcome those PP advantages and reap the spoils of ultimate victory in late November. That GID drive from the top has been gone for a decade, and forum culture reflects this ambivalence. The single biggest snippet that has come out of this thread is a comment from a FW Dwenger supporter, who stated that ten years down the road, football will be a club sport at BD. This comes from a deep Dwenger insider, and reveals changing attitudes towards American tackle football, even at a hotbed of participation like Dwenger High School. If participation trends are pointing downward at a place like Dwenger, imagine what must be coming throughout the rest of the state where they take their high school football much less seriously. Just like the rest of the world and the rest of society, I believe COVID will ultimately drive a "shakeout" effect in high school athletics, where the strong will get stronger and the weak will fall by the wayside. Many schools will consider consolidating their extra curricular menus, and football will be sacrificed at some. Ultimately, the game will be made stronger as the weakest programs at the bottom of the scale are left behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiting89 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 You need the unsuccessful factor to balance it out. Earn points for not making it or winning sectionals and get bumped down that would make thing competitive across the board. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Muda69 said: Something that you and BARRYOSAMA know all about. lol, fake news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US31 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) So reward unsuccessful programs for (possibly) tanking??🤔 Edited November 11, 2020 by US31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiting89 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 36 minutes ago, US31 said: So reward unsuccessful programs for (possibly) tanking??🤔 No coach or team would ever purposely lose. This would help programs that can’t get anything going for example portage Munster Griffith are some examples from the region maybe 1 class down they can build excitement and get better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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