Roncalli starting to look like a 6A Program

[Guest DT]

2 minutes ago, temptation said:

If the margins of victory play out like many project next weekend it’s not too far fetched to state that the best four teams in the state reside in four different classes...

Agree

[Lysander]

5 minutes ago, DT said:

Roncallis falloff can be attributed as much or more to the departure of Coach Scifres than to the introduction of the SF or any other mitigating factors

 

Scifres has only been gone 4 years (including this year) out of those last 15 years Grandpa B referenced.  They actually have had excellent teams 2 of those 4 years he’s been gone.  

Your point doesn’t follow....but then, when does it ever?

Edited November 21, 2020 by Lysander

[Guest DT]

Just now, DT said:

Agree

And I think 3A Marian just proved it is the best team in the north.   Very impressive showing against Chatard

[Guest DT]

2 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Scifres has only been gone 4 years (including this year) out of those last 15 years Grandpa B referenced.  They actually have had excellent teams 2 of those 4 years he’s been gone.  

Your point doesn’t follow....but then, when does it ever?

RhS still had good teams in the later scifres years.  Not great teams.  The wheels came off after BS left

[Footballking16]

6 minutes ago, DT said:

Roncallis falloff can be attributed as much or more to the departure of Coach Scifres than to the introduction of the SF or any other mitigating factors

 

Disagree. Scifries is an all-timer but lack of creativity in the offense likely held Roncalli back several years. Power toss left and power toss right 9/10 times works if you have the hosses up front, but Roncalli has gone to a modern, spread approach on offense and you see the results. I think same can be said for Lorenzano at Chatard. Still will never get used to seeing the Trojans slinging the ball all over the field, but hey if it works....

[Guest DT]

3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Disagree. Scifries is an all-timer but lack of creativity in the offense likely held Roncalli back several years. Power toss left and power toss right 9/10 times works if you have the hosses up front, but Roncalli has gone to a modern, spread approach on offense and you see the results. I think same can be said for Lorenzano at Chatard. Still will never get used to seeing the Trojans slinging the ball all over the field, but hey if it works....

I thought it was Dwenger and Cathedral that primarily held Roncalli back

[Lysander]

7 minutes ago, DT said:

RhS still had good teams in the later scifres years.  Not great teams.  The wheels came off after BS left

You could measure the shift of Roncalli fortunes by simply watching the annual CYO results (with the exception of the 2 years prior to this year).

The Archdiocese school’s outcomes are almost always directly tied to historic CYO outcomes.  

Edited November 21, 2020 by Lysander

[Footballking16]

4 minutes ago, DT said:

I thought it was Dwenger and Cathedral that primarily held Roncalli back

Cathedral and Roncalli didn’t play in any of Scifries last 4 years as they weren’t in the same class and Dwenger and Roncalli to my knowledge haven’t played each other in the last 10 years. 

Edited November 21, 2020 by Footballking16

[foxbat]

35 minutes ago, Grandpa B said:

Roncalli would be a 25 point underdog to Center Grove this weekend.  They would be a 20 point underdog to Cathedral.  These are straight off the Sagarin Site updated after last nights game.   Roncalli would NEVER win a 6A title which is absolutely the motive of DT and Muda.   Roncalli has won one State Title in the last 15 years.  One.   The current system works.   Roncalli was rightfully moved up to 5A after their 2016 title.   They did not win a single playoff game (yes I know they played Cathedral - who by the way did not win in those two years either).   System works.   

Roncalli played 5A Harrison this year and won 49-45 in a game that saw a back-and-forth lead change until pretty much the last possession.  Harrison finished 6-4 this season dropping games to 6A Jeff 76-55, Westfield 34-10, the aforementioned Roncalli 49-45, and Zionsville in the first round of sections 33-21.  Not too shabby given that three of these teams will be visiting LOS next week.  With that said, I would agree that, despite the really good season that Roncalli is having, a permanent position in 6A would be untenable. 

Like you alluded to, SF has done what it needs to do.  It may not do it immediately, but if Roncalli is really 6A material, they will be there in four years.  If they aren't, then again, SF will let us know BASED ON PERFORMANCE.  It will also do what it needs to do in 1A by moving LCC up next season and keeping Pioneer in 2A after moving up last time around after back-to-back state titles in 1A.  Depending on where the IHSAA positions Pioneer and LCC, they could potentially end up spending a decent spread in 2A just by picking up a couple sectionals each.  On the other hand, if the IHSAA puts them in the same sectional, they are guaranteeing that one or both of them will be back in 1A in the following cycle. 

[Footballking16]

3 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Roncalli played 5A Harrison this year and won 49-45 in a game that saw a back-and-forth lead change until pretty much the last possession.  Harrison finished 6-4 this season dropping games to 6A Jeff 76-55, Westfield 34-10, the aforementioned Roncalli 49-45, and Zionsville in the first round of sections 33-21.  Not too shabby given that three of these teams will be visiting LOS next week.  With that said, I would agree that, despite the really good season that Roncalli is having, a permanent position in 6A would be untenable. 

Like you alluded to, SF has done what it needs to do.  It may not do it immediately, but if Roncalli is really 6A material, they will be there in four years.  If they aren't, then again, SF will let us know BASED ON PERFORMANCE.  It will also do what it needs to do in 1A by moving LCC up next season and keeping Pioneer in 2A after moving up last time around after back-to-back state titles in 1A.  Depending on where the IHSAA positions Pioneer and LCC, they could potentially end up spending a decent spread in 2A just by picking up a couple sectionals each.  On the other hand, if the IHSAA puts them in the same sectional, they are guaranteeing that one or both of them will be back in 1A in the following cycle. 

Doubt they’ll be in 6A. Cathedral (unless they petition to play up a class) will be 5A the next 3 years and you can be sure Roncalli (likely to be bumped after next year) will be playing Cathedral in the first round of sectionals. It’s like clock-work whoever they are both in the same sectional.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Footballking16

[FastpacedO]

6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Cathedral and Roncalli didn’t play in any of Scifries last 4 years as they weren’t in the same class and Dwenger and Roncalli to my knowledge haven’t played each other in the last 10 years. 

You know he always has the same result!

[Footballking16]

1 minute ago, FastpacedO said:

You know he always has the same result!

Of course it’s coming.

Scifries success his last two years at Roncalli (15 semi-state and 16 state champions) was directly due to the SF. Cathedral was playing 2 classes up in 6A at the time and New Pal playing up a class in 5A. All three likely would have been in the same sectional.

[foxbat]

2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Doubt they’ll be in 6A. Cathedral (unless they petition to play up a class) will be 5A the next 3 years and you can be sure Roncalli (likely to be bumped after next year) will be playing Cathedral in the first round of sectionals. It’s like clock-work whoever they are both in the same sectional.

Kind of the 4A/5A equivalency of the Sectional of Death in 3A.

Actually, things start all over again for SF evals, so next year would only be the first year of the next cycle eval period for SF.  With that said, if Roncalli picks up a state win next year, it lays down a better foundation for a 5A bump-up in the next evaluation cycle.

[FastpacedO]

6 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Of course it’s coming.

Scifries success his last two years at Roncalli (15 semi-state and 16 state champions) was directly due to the SF. Cathedral was playing 2 classes up in 6A at the time and New Pal playing up a class in 5A. All three likely would have been in the same sectional.

I know. I was giving you a visual of DT and his assumptions. Blindfolded dart thrower world champion!

Edited November 21, 2020 by FastpacedO

[Footballking16]

Just now, FastpacedO said:

I know. I was giving you a visual of DT and his assumptions. Blindfolded dart thrower!

He’ll find a way to spin it somehow. Always does.

[Grandpa B]

3 hours ago, DT said:

RhS still had good teams in the later scifres years.  Not great teams.  The wheels came off after BS left

You know so LITTLE about Roncalli it is actually laughable.    Scrifres leaving had nothing to do with their lack of success.  Nothing.   Those of us close to the program know this.   The year (2017) Scrifes left,  Scott Marsh was 8-2 and lost to Cathedral 28-23 in the playoffs.  2018 was a very down year for talent and Scrifes would have also had a losing season as he did in previous years if he was the head coach.   2019 they won the sectional and barely lost to Mount Vernon in the Regional.   The "wheels came off" one year.  2018.  Just as they came off for Scrifes in many of the years from 2006 onward that they won only the one state championship.    If you want to send me a direct message before you make further uninformed comments about Roncalli, I would certainly be willing to review your comments before you post something that is just wrong.  Rebel Dad would have used a different word than "wrong" but Grandpa B is a kinder more gentle poster.  

[Grandpa B]

3 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Disagree. Scifries is an all-timer but lack of creativity in the offense likely held Roncalli back several years. Power toss left and power toss right 9/10 times works if you have the hosses up front, but Roncalli has gone to a modern, spread approach on offense and you see the results. I think same can be said for Lorenzano at Chatard. Still will never get used to seeing the Trojans slinging the ball all over the field, but hey if it works....

Spot on and so very well said!  Good luck to the Irish on Friday.   Again not sure if Rebel Dad could have brought himself to say that, but Granndpa B is comes out easy!  :)

[Guest DT]

18 minutes ago, Grandpa B said:

You know so LITTLE about Roncalli it is actually laughable.    Scrifres leaving had nothing to do with their lack of success.  Nothing.   Those of us close to the program know this.   The year (2017) Scrifes left,  Scott Marsh was 8-2 and lost to Cathedral 28-23 in the playoffs.  2018 was a very down year for talent and Scrifes would have also had a losing season as he did in previous years if he was the head coach.   2019 they won the sectional and barely lost to Mount Vernon in the Regional.   The "wheels came off" one year.  2018.  Just as they came off for Scrifes in many of the years from 2006 onward that they won only the one state championship.    If you want to send me a direct message before you make further uninformed comments about Roncalli, I would certainly be willing to review your comments before you post something that is just wrong.  Rebel Dad would have used a different word than "wrong" but Grandpa B is a kinder more gentle poster.  

LOL

 

I think you are veady for the nursing home Gramps

Scifres record at RHS  305-77  80% winning percentage

Marsh record at RHS  18-15      59% winning percentage

The wheels indeed fell off, especially by RHS standards

Spin it all you like, those are the numbers

THis is the turnaround season, so dont add those numbers to the narrative.

 

[Grandpa B]

3 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Doubt they’ll be in 6A. Cathedral (unless they petition to play up a class) will be 5A the next 3 years and you can be sure Roncalli (likely to be bumped after next year) will be playing Cathedral in the first round of sectionals. It’s like clock-work whoever they are both in the same sectional.

I don't think that there was voter fraud to the tune that Trump alludes, but I am 100% confinced that those lottery balls are fixed to make sure that Roncalli and Cathedral play each other in the first round of the playoff if in the same sectional.   100% certain of it!

[Lysander]

4 minutes ago, Grandpa B said:

I don't think that there was voter fraud to the tune that Trump alludes, but I am 100% confinced that those lottery balls are fixed to make sure that Roncalli and Cathedral play each other in the first round of the playoff if in the same sectional.   100% certain of it!

Next year it will be Roncalli and Chatard.

[Grandpa B]

9 minutes ago, DT said:

LOL

 

I think you are veady for the nursing home Gramps

Scifres record at RHS  305-77  80% winning percentage

Marsh record at RHS  18-15      59% winning percentage

The wheels indeed fell off, especially by RHS standards

Spin it all you like, those are the numbers

THis is the turnaround season, so dont add those numbers to the narrative.

 

and Scifes was 15-16 in 2007-2009.  So Marsh was better than Scifres comparing those two 3 year periods.  See 18-15 is a better record than 15-16.   Did you not see my post that I am willing to review your posts before you make them?   Let me help you.  

7 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Next year it will be Roncalli and Chatard.

That acually only has a 95% chance of happening unlike the 100% for Roncalli and Cathedral. 

[foxbat]

34 minutes ago, Grandpa B said:

and Scifes was 15-16 in 2007-2009.  So Marsh was better than Scifres comparing those two 3 year periods.  See 18-15 is a better record than 15-16.   Did you not see my post that I am willing to review your posts before you make them?   Let me help you.  

That acually only has a 95% chance of happening unlike the 100% for Roncalli and Cathedral. 

It'd go to 100% if Guerin or Brebeuf or honorary PP, West Lafayette, moved up with Chatard. 😀

[DL6]

10 hours ago, DT said:

RhS still had good teams in the later scifres years.  Not great teams.  The wheels came off after BS left

Roncalli’s successful years and down years are ALWAYS determined by one, simple indicator... are they able to keep all (or at least a majority) of the talent in their feeder schools (south deanery grade schools) at Roncalli.

In 2016 and 2017, in which RHS won a state championship and was ranked #1 in 5A, they were fueled by classes in which all of the south deanery talent attended Roncalli.

However, anyone within the program at time would have told you tough years were coming. During the following years, Roncalli missed out on the following players that attended their feeder grade schools...

QB Eddie Schott (St Jude) - Southport - Ball State

ATH Haven Montefalco (St Jude) - Cathedral - Harvard

OL Josh Fryar (St. Mark) - Beech Grove - Ohio State

ATH Ryan Lezon (St. Barnabas) - Southport - Ball State

QB Kody Sparks (St. Barnabas) - HSE - Bowling Green

QB Nate  McCahill (St. Roch) - Cathedral - Current candidate for Mr. Football

These are just a few examples. These are also elite high school football players that attended Roncalli’s grade schools but did not attend Roncalli, all for a variety of reasons.

Believe it or not, Roncalli’s success has nothing to do with recruiting (that claim has always been ridiculous).

This year’s Roncalli team is loaded with home grown talent that (outside of McCahill) all chose to stay in the south deanery and attend Roncalli. Thus, the success.

[Guest DT]

35 minutes ago, DL6 said:

Roncalli’s successful years and down years are ALWAYS determined by one, simple indicator... are they able to keep all (or at least a majority) of the talent in their feeder schools (south deanery grade schools) at Roncalli.

In 2016 and 2017, in which RHS won a state championship and was ranked #1 in 5A, they were fueled by classes in which all of the south deanery talent attended Roncalli.

However, anyone within the program at time would have told you tough years were coming. During the following years, Roncalli missed out on the following players that attended their feeder grade schools...

QB Eddie Schott (St Jude) - Southport - Ball State

ATH Haven Montefalco (St Jude) - Cathedral - Harvard

OL Josh Fryar (St. Mark) - Beech Grove - Ohio State

ATH Ryan Lezon (St. Barnabas) - Southport - Ball State

QB Kody Sparks (St. Barnabas) - HSE - Bowling Green

QB Nate  McCahill (St. Roch) - Cathedral - Current candidate for Mr. Football

These are just a few examples. These are also elite high school football players that attended Roncalli’s grade schools but did not attend Roncalli, all for a variety of reasons.

Believe it or not, Roncalli’s success has nothing to do with recruiting (that claim has always been ridiculous).

This year’s Roncalli team is loaded with home grown talent that (outside of McCahill) all chose to stay in the south deanery and attend Roncalli. Thus, the success.

Did these players avoid RHS due to the sordid scandals that engulfed the institution over the past several years?  

[Guest DT]

I was looking at the Ohio Divisional breakouts recently and noticed that all of the elite high end football programs play in Division 1.  St X.  St Iggy.  Moeller.  St Edward.  They want to see the best teams play each other at the highest level.  Thats the way it should be in Indiana.