NWI Semi-States

[Guest DT]

5 hours ago, Bobref said:

“Good” is somewhat ambiguous. My opinion is based on a comparison of Duneland teams top to bottom relative to other conferences. It’s not really possible to say whether the quality of play is as good as it was then. What I feel confident in saying is that the overall quality of play in the conference has declined relative to the quality of play in other conferences.

Bob, werent you and your crew on the field with DAC schools 15 years ago?

Do you remember that 2004-2005 Merrillville  team with James Aldridge, (Notre Dame), Dexter Larrimore (Ohio State) Michael Neal (Purdue) Brandon Jordan (Illinois) Bart Woodard (Utah State) Crazy jigh end talent on that team

This current Merillville team is very good, but not on the level of that 2005 team.  They lost to HSE in the semi state that year   Should have won it all   They would have gone up against the great WC machine.

[Ballhawk]

18 hours ago, temptation said:

I agree that the spread is often a recipe for failure come tournament time and that could be the case but you are still asking schools in the 2500-3000 range to compete with those in the 4000-5000 range which is a tall order.

Center Grove has figured out a way to navigate that mountain and perhaps Westfield is next.

Any school with over 2,000 students should have no trouble fielding a football team that can compete with those in the 4-5,000 range.  I'm sure they can find 50 athletes out of 2,000.  I don't buy that argument.  This is why 5A was split to add a 6th class, so schools with 1,500 students weren't having to compete with the BDs and Carmels of the world.  

I can tell you that the Carmel middle schools struggle for numbers and the teams aren't real competitive, but why are they at the top of the 6A world?  When you talk about feeder systems, their feeder system isn't real strong.  Maybe just having 3 middle schools is an advantage as you end up with a lot of kids who have played, even if they weren't very good.

Westfield is a relative newcomer to 6A, but their feeder program is solid from elementary up.  Their middle school teams consistently win the Hamilton County championship, and they have been successful at the HS level with only 1 middle school to feed in.

I don't know what other regions have, but I do know that Indy and the donut counties do compete against each other at the 5-6th grade level and the teams are pretty good.  Do the other areas of Indiana have leagues like that to lay the foundation for strong MS & HS teams?

[Bobref]

5 hours ago, DT said:

Bob, werent you and your crew on the field with DAC schools 15 years ago?

Do you remember that 2004-2005 Merrillville  team with James Aldridge, (Notre Dame), Dexter Larrimore (Ohio State) Michael Neal (Purdue) Brandon Jordan (Illinois) Bart Woodard (Utah State) Crazy jigh end talent on that team

This current Merillville team is very good, but not on the level of that 2005 team.  They lost to HSE in the semi state that year   Should have won it all   They would have gone up against the great WC machine.

I remember that team well. Aldridge was the first running back recruited by Notre Dame in that class. If I remember, he hurt his knee on the opening kickoff of their last playoff game his junior year, did not recover fully, and went to Notre Dame, but was never the same player after that. That was as good a big school team as we’ve had around here in a while.

[oldunclemark]

     To all;

I'm hearing that no fans will be allowed for the semistates....is that true?

[Indiana Fan]

1 hour ago, Ballhawk said:

Any school with over 2,000 students should have no trouble fielding a football team that can compete with those in the 4-5,000 range.  I'm sure they can find 50 athletes out of 2,000.  I don't buy that argument.  This is why 5A was split to add a 6th class, so schools with 1,500 students weren't having to compete with the BDs and Carmels of the world.  

I can tell you that the Carmel middle schools struggle for numbers and the teams aren't real competitive, but why are they at the top of the 6A world?  When you talk about feeder systems, their feeder system isn't real strong.  Maybe just having 3 middle schools is an advantage as you end up with a lot of kids who have played, even if they weren't very good.

Westfield is a relative newcomer to 6A, but their feeder program is solid from elementary up.  Their middle school teams consistently win the Hamilton County championship, and they have been successful at the HS level with only 1 middle school to feed in.

I don't know what other regions have, but I do know that Indy and the donut counties do compete against each other at the 5-6th grade level and the teams are pretty good.  Do the other areas of Indiana have leagues like that to lay the foundation for strong MS & HS teams?

So a public school with 2,000 students should compete right with Carmel who has over 5,000? There is no other class that asks teams to compete with schools with that big of a difference of students. I get that at some point there needs to be a cut off and I agree there should be a 6A. But to ask a school to compete year in and year out with 3,000 less students is very difficult. 

Also I should note that yes Westfield has a great feeder program and great high school program. But They do only have 1 middle school. Where the other big schools in Hamilton County are split up. So they do have an advantage to win the middle school  Hamilton County championship. Numbers do matter a lot!

[HanShotFirst]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

     To all;

I'm hearing that no fans will be allowed for the semistates....is that true?

To my understanding, Lake County is currently red, restricting tickets to immediate family members only.

[Ballhawk]

2 hours ago, Indiana Fan said:

Also I should note that yes Westfield has a great feeder program and great high school program. But They do only have 1 middle school. Where the other big schools in Hamilton County are split up. So they do have an advantage to win the middle school  Hamilton County championship. Numbers do matter a lot!

I totally agree with the point about how they should win the title or be the favorite every year.

If you look at the final four in 6A, only BD (4,499) is in the larger half of the schools.  CG (2,521 - 17th), Westfield (2,334 - 22nd) and Merrillville (2,187 - 25th) are in the smaller half of the class.  I would say if there are over 2,000 students you can field a team that can be competitive at the state level.  

[BDGiant93]

7 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

     To all;

I'm hearing that no fans will be allowed for the semistates....is that true?

That is not accurate as to any information I've heard at 3:16 pm on 11/19/20

[scarab527]

I guess I’ll give my thoughts on some of these games now.

Merrillville-Westfield: I think the keys to this game will be the play of the Merrillville offensive line and Pirate QB Angel Nelson. When Nelson has struggled, so have the Pirates. In the Chatard game, he lost two fumbles and threw a pick. Last week against Elkhart, he let the Lions back into the game by throwing 3 picks. He’ll need to hold onto the ball and make good reads for the Pirates to have a chance. The Pirate O-Line was physically humiliated in their loss to Chatard, but this group has improved since then, and came up huge last week in opening holes for Logan to rush for 187 yards and 3 huge TDs against a pretty good Elkhart defense. They’ll need to show up big this week against an even better Westfield defense. In the end, I think this one could turn into a bit of a shootout, but I think Westfield will get some key stops. I’ll go Westfield 42 - Merrillville 28. 

Valpo-Zionsville

This game is hard to predict. These two teams seem to play to the other teams’ weakness. From what I’ve seen from Zionsville, they’re pretty balanced run/pass, with a good RB, and three good receivers in #1, #11, and #19. The QB is hard to contain in the pocket as he’s very quick. I don’t think Valpo has played a team with this kind of balance all year, and definitely not a team who can sling the ball around like Zionsville. It’s hard to tell how the Viking secondary will match up. I expect the Vikings to dominate in the trenches, but will this matter if Zionsville can hit a few big plays to their receivers? The fact that this game is being played in Zionsville is definitely an advantage for the home team, hopefully Valpo won’t come out flat from the long bus ride. I’d like to see Valpo make a 2nd straight trip to LOS, but my gut tells me that Zionsville pulls this one out, 28-21.

Hobart-Marion

Can Hobart make its first state finals appearance in nearly 25 years? The defense has been spectacular, the offense has been suspect. If the defense can’t contain Marion’s two explosive running backs, I think the Bricks will have a hard time playing catch up. Hobart has hard a hard time hitting explosive plays this season. They’ll need to hit some on Friday. I think the Brickies finally exorcize their demons this Friday, and book their trip to LOS, 21-14.

Edited November 19, 2020 by scarab527

[WestfieldRocks]

7 hours ago, HanShotFirst said:

To my understanding, Lake County is currently red, restricting tickets to immediate family members only.

I've also heard this from some parents of Westfield players.

[Whiting89]

46 minutes ago, WestfieldRocks said:

I've also heard this from some parents of Westfield players.

Here is the source

https://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/lake-porter-counties-hit-red-covid-19-infection-level-new-restrictions-in-effect/article_064ac72b-ebde-5e47-96b1-f2f81bff7054.html#tracking-source=home-top-story-1

[Boilernation]

On 11/19/2020 at 3:33 PM, scarab527 said:

I guess I’ll give my thoughts on some of these games now.

Merrillville-Westfield: I think the keys to this game will be the play of the Merrillville offensive line and Pirate QB Angel Nelson. When Nelson has struggled, so have the Pirates. In the Chatard game, he lost two fumbles and threw a pick. Last week against Elkhart, he let the Lions back into the game by throwing 3 picks. He’ll need to hold onto the ball and make good reads for the Pirates to have a chance. The Pirate O-Line was physically humiliated in their loss to Chatard, but this group has improved since then, and came up huge last week in opening holes for Logan to rush for 187 yards and 3 huge TDs against a pretty good Elkhart defense. They’ll need to show up big this week against an even better Westfield defense. In the end, I think this one could turn into a bit of a shootout, but I think Westfield will get some key stops. I’ll go Westfield 42 - Merrillville 28. 

Valpo-Zionsville

This game is hard to predict. These two teams seem to play to the other teams’ weakness. From what I’ve seen from Zionsville, they’re pretty balanced run/pass, with a good RB, and three good receivers in #1, #11, and #19. The QB is hard to contain in the pocket as he’s very quick. I don’t think Valpo has played a team with this kind of balance all year, and definitely not a team who can sling the ball around like Zionsville. It’s hard to tell how the Viking secondary will match up. I expect the Vikings to dominate in the trenches, but will this matter if Zionsville can hit a few big plays to their receivers? The fact that this game is being played in Zionsville is definitely an advantage for the home team, hopefully Valpo won’t come out flat from the long bus ride. I’d like to see Valpo make a 2nd straight trip to LOS, but my gut tells me that Zionsville pulls this one out, 28-21.

Hobart-Marion

Can Hobart make its first state finals appearance in nearly 25 years? The defense has been spectacular, the offense has been suspect. If the defense can’t contain Marion’s two explosive running backs, I think the Bricks will have a hard time playing catch up. Hobart has hard a hard time hitting explosive plays this season. They’ll need to hit some on Friday. I think the Brickies finally exorcize their demons this Friday, and book their trip to LOS, 21-14.

Per Twitter, Valpo left 2 hours ago on 3 chartered busses. Man, I know chartered busses are common nowadays, but these kids have it nice. In my day we yellow bussed it to Indy from The Region. 2 to a seat. Brutal ride.

As for the game, fairly identical teams. Both wear green, white, and black. Both are white collar communities. Both have huge lines with D1 recruits. I'll still give the edge to Zionsville. Playing at home, Valpo has had an odd year, and Zionsville could possibly be undefeated as well had they played Valpo's schedule. 

Merrillville-Westfield:

My brain says Westfield by at least 14. My heart says Merrillville is going to pull off the upset tonight in Demaree. It'll come down to Merrillville's star studded D-Line stepping up and JoJo Johnson continuing to make big plays on offense. It'll be a homecoming of sorts for Westfield's very talented DE Popeye Williams. He's originially from The Region and is a very close cousin of one of Merrillville's starting Safeties. 

Hobart-Marion: 

I think the Bricks get back to what used to be their birthright: Playing on Thanksgiving weekend in Indy. I'll take Hobart by about 10. 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by Boilernation

[Bobref]

I’ll be at Merrillville tonight. 50 degrees and dry on Nov. 20! I’ll take it. I remember some awfully cold semistate games. Good luck to everyone tonight, and especially to the third team on the field.

[oldunclemark]

On 11/16/2020 at 2:24 PM, Boilernation said:

That's 2 years in a row that the SAC Champ/Co Champ hasn't looked good against middle to cellar dwellar HCC Teams and then throw in Westfield dismantled Homestead. The HCC is heads and shoulder above everyone not named the MIC. I'll give them them the benefit over my beloved Duneland in any matchup. 

I think Valpo is in serious trouble. They lacked a great passing game last year and the upgrate was supposed to be when Grimes transferred in from Lafayette Jeff. He ended up leaving the 1st half of the Penn game with an injury and hasn't been seen since.  Valpo is a ground and pound team that will use the massive size/strength of their lines to run the ball down ZIonsville's throat and stop the ZIonsville offense. I can see this game turning into a 14-10 type of game that sees a lot of clock being burned up by running the ball. I'll give Zionsville the edge due to tougher schedule and Zionsville has a QB in Stone that capable of making big plays with is arm. 

I have a feeling Merrillville will keep it somewhat close and Westfield will end up winning by around 14. JoJo Johnson is not easy to contain. He and Marcus Hardy con generate some offense for the Pirates. 

Nothing against Marion, but I'll take the Bricks by 10+. I can't see them losing at home in a game that puts them back into a State Final Appearance for the first time since 1996. Especially since they were so close last year.

BoilerMan;

You called it....Zionsville over Valpo by 3 TDs.....I was shocked but you werent....

Who do you like in IU at Ohio State? 😏

[oldunclemark]

On 11/16/2020 at 1:21 PM, Staxawax said:

If the Homestead beatdown didn't convince you, then you'll find out Friday. Then CG will beat down on Westfield.

You were right on it, Stax.....

Not close at all.........You said 21..........and the Pirates could not keep it even that close. I am surprised...

 

..and you're telling me Centre Grove is 21 better than Westfield? 

[Staxawax]

Just now, oldunclemark said:

You were right on it, Stax.....

Not close at all.........You said 21..........and the Pirates could not keep it even that close. I am surprised...

 

..and you're telling me Centre Grove is 21 better than Westfield? 

I’m afraid so. 

[oldunclemark]

On 11/17/2020 at 2:25 PM, WestfieldRocks said:

That someone could be Westfield. This year, playing the same schedule as the varsity, and yes, that includes Cathedral, Westfield's JV and freshmen teams both went undefeated. Their eight grade team (not sure of their schedule) also went undefeated. 

Great night for your guys, WR...........They are that good. 

 

Like they used to say on the old Monday night wrestling shows.......

I can smell what the Rocks are cooking!

[DE]

On 11/18/2020 at 9:36 AM, DE said:

For whatever reason, I keep coming back to this.

This entails 2 region teams and 1 Indy team.

Merrillville, Hobart and Ben Davis will all be playing for state titles.

Well. 1/3. Good thing I don’t bet. 

Congrats to all teams advancing.

Congrats to all teams who’s season has come to an end. 

[WestfieldRocks]

11 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Great night for your guys, WR...........They are that good. 

 

Like they used to say on the old Monday night wrestling shows.......

I can smell what the Rocks are cooking!

Thanks! Actually that was probably the "worst" game Westfield has played in some time.  Way to many penalties and the passing game was not up to par. I'm sure Merrillville had something to do with that. I was impressed by their running back, although I thought Westfield held him down for the most part. They have played against several D1 running backs this year, so they were prepared. 

Who knows about next Friday night. On paper, it won't be close, but we'll see.

[Coach Nowlin]

Hobart will have their hands full with massive OL and running attack of Roncalli 

[Boilernation]

5 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Hobart will have their hands full with massive OL and running attack of Roncalli 

I’m thrilled to see the Bricks back in a State Title game, but I think it’s fair to acknowledge they punched the easy ticket while the South bracket had heavyweight battles starting in Sectionals. 
 

I know Hobart has big and strong boys like Johnson and Babcock. 
 

Are the Brickie lines capable of competing with Roncalli or do you foresee this one getting out of hand similar to MV and Mooresville?

[Bobref]

I have to say I was disappointed by the Merrillville game. I enjoyed seeing Westfield. That’s a very good, very well-coached team. But Merrillville turned it over 3 times, and they had at least 7 pre-snap penalties, including at least 5 false starts. There was a very small crowd, due to distancing restrictions, so it certainly wasn’t crowd noise that caused those false starts. Just a lack of concentration at a critical time.

I saw the Pirates 3 times this year, and it was the same story each time. You cannot help but be impressed with their size, speed and athleticism. The first two times I saw them, they made these same mistakes, but the talent differential between them and the opponent was so great that they could overcome them. Not so when you play a disciplined, well-coached opponent who doesn’t make mistakes, and takes advantage of yours.

I didn’t know Coach Seiss before he came to Merrillville, but having seen him work now on multiple occasions, I have to say I’m impressed with him. But if Merrillville truly aspires to have downstate success, rather than just being the big fish in the relatively small pond that is 6A football in the North, he’s got to change these guys from athletes to football players. It’s great to have sensational athletes on your team. But they have to get better at playing football. 

[temptation]

3 hours ago, Bobref said:

I have to say I was disappointed by the Merrillville game. I enjoyed seeing Westfield. That’s a very good, very well-coached team. But Merrillville turned it over 3 times, and they had at least 7 pre-snap penalties, including at least 5 false starts. There was a very small crowd, due to distancing restrictions, so it certainly wasn’t crowd noise that caused those false starts. Just a lack of concentration at a critical time.

I saw the Pirates 3 times this year, and it was the same story each time. You cannot help but be impressed with their size, speed and athleticism. The first two times I saw them, they made these same mistakes, but the talent differential between them and the opponent was so great that they could overcome them. Not so when you play a disciplined, well-coached opponent who doesn’t make mistakes, and takes advantage of yours.

I didn’t know Coach Seiss before he came to Merrillville, but having seen him work now on multiple occasions, I have to say I’m impressed with him. But if Merrillville truly aspires to have downstate success, rather than just being the big fish in the relatively small pond that is 6A football in the North, he’s got to change these guys from athletes to football players. It’s great to have sensational athletes on your team. But they have to get better at playing football. 

It’s almost as if you cannot just build an all star team with transfers and such from other schools.. 

Discipline + Experience + Togetherness = success

Brownsburg agrees.

Edited November 22, 2020 by temptation

[Bobref]

1 minute ago, temptation said:

It’s almost as if you cannot just build an all star team with transfers and such from other schools.. 

Discipline + Experience + Togetherness = success

Brownsburg agrees.

I agree. At the high school level, things like fundamentals, discipline and teamwork are more likely to help a team bridge the talent gap than in college or the pros, where talent reigns supreme.

[scarab527]

5 hours ago, Bobref said:

I have to say I was disappointed by the Merrillville game. I enjoyed seeing Westfield. That’s a very good, very well-coached team. But Merrillville turned it over 3 times, and they had at least 7 pre-snap penalties, including at least 5 false starts. There was a very small crowd, due to distancing restrictions, so it certainly wasn’t crowd noise that caused those false starts. Just a lack of concentration at a critical time.

I saw the Pirates 3 times this year, and it was the same story each time. You cannot help but be impressed with their size, speed and athleticism. The first two times I saw them, they made these same mistakes, but the talent differential between them and the opponent was so great that they could overcome them. Not so when you play a disciplined, well-coached opponent who doesn’t make mistakes, and takes advantage of yours.

I didn’t know Coach Seiss before he came to Merrillville, but having seen him work now on multiple occasions, I have to say I’m impressed with him. But if Merrillville truly aspires to have downstate success, rather than just being the big fish in the relatively small pond that is 6A football in the North, he’s got to change these guys from athletes to football players. It’s great to have sensational athletes on your team. But they have to get better at playing football. 

Spot on comments. Game was maddening to watch. I think Westfield would’ve pulled away anyhow, but the Pirates did themselves no favors.