IHSAA Success Factor By Law 2-5 and FULL BREAKDOWN

[RoadRunner]

1 minute ago, XStar said:

Southridge is in 3A.

I'm not sure what Southridge being in 3A has to do with WEBO being in 2A or 3A. If you are referring to the one time we played them in the 2018 Semi-State game, that is a horrible assessment. Fact of the matter is, WEBO should have been in 3A this year if the real end goal is to "Level the playing field". Starting over every 2 years is a joke.

[XStar]

1 minute ago, RoadRunner said:

I'm not sure what Southridge being in 3A has to do with WEBO being in 2A or 3A. If you are referring to the one time we played them in the 2018 Semi-State game, that is a horrible assessment. Fact of the matter is, WEBO should have been in 3A this year if the real end goal is to "Level the playing field". Starting over every 2 years is a joke.

I never said they should be in either one.  I just said that I thought you would want them in 2A.

[RoadRunner]

2 minutes ago, XStar said:

I never said they should be in either one.  I just said that I thought you would want them in 2A.

Got it... Thanks for your "Hot Take" of the hour.
And for your information, I'm sure this 2020 Southridge would welcome the idea to play this 2020 WEBO team regardless of class.

[1st_and_10]

5 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

You just have to tell your children to pick the right 2 years to be good at sports. (WEBO) Could have won 2 consecutive state championships and stayed in 2A (with a regional loss this year). I am fine with the 6 point SF rule, but why not just make a running tally of any consecutive 2 years? Is it too much work to do reclassifications every year?

 

2 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

I'm not sure what Southridge being in 3A has to do with WEBO being in 2A or 3A. If you are referring to the one time we played them in the 2018 Semi-State game, that is a horrible assessment. Fact of the matter is, WEBO should have been in 3A this year if the real end goal is to "Level the playing field". Starting over every 2 years is a joke.

 

2 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

Got it... Thanks for your "Hot Take" of the hour.
And for your information, I'm sure this 2020 Southridge would welcome the idea to play this 2020 WEBO team regardless of class.

It was 2 years ago...  Webo didn't select when to win the 2 championships (they try to win every game) and Webo didn't set the guidelines of the succes factor. You won a Regional and a State title and got bumped.  The exact same thing is happening to us now.  IF we lose this weekend or next weekend, I am not (and I seriously doubt any other Webo Fan) going to troll every post about Mater Dei/Pioneer/Ft. Wayne Bishop Luers.  It is what it is, and we will move on and regroup for 3A next year.  You should focus your attention on Danville.  Lots of similarities between 2018 Webo and 2020 Danville.

Best of luck on Friday evening.   

[RoadRunner]

1 hour ago, 1st_and_10 said:

 

 

It was 2 years ago...  Webo didn't select when to win the 2 championships (they try to win every game) and Webo didn't set the guidelines of the succes factor. You won a Regional and a State title and got bumped.  The exact same thing is happening to us now.  IF we lose this weekend or next weekend, I am not (and I seriously doubt any other Webo Fan) going to troll every post about Mater Dei/Pioneer/Ft. Wayne Bishop Luers.  It is what it is, and we will move on and regroup for 3A next year.  You should focus your attention on Danville.  Lots of similarities between 2018 Webo and 2020 Danville.

Best of luck on Friday evening.   

Thank you for making my case for me. If you read back on my first post, I sarcastically stated that you have to tell your kids to pick the right two years to be good! Because if you don't you get bumped.  I did not make this about Southridge, @XStar did. This is a public forum and I have no affiliation with Southridge other than being an alumni/fan. Just putting my 2 cents in on the topic at hand.

I only brought WEBO up because they just so happened to score 8 points in 2 years and avoid the SF. I'm sure they aren't the only team to ever do that.

The system is flawed and it should be a year-to-year re-class of any two consecutive successful years (6 points).

[foxbat]

51 minutes ago, RoadRunner said:

Thank you for making my case for me. If you read back on my first post, I sarcastically stated that you have to tell your kids to pick the right two years to be good! Because if you don't you get bumped.  I did not make this about Southridge, @XStar did. This is a public forum and I have no affiliation with Southridge other than being an alumni/fan. Just putting my 2 cents in on the topic at hand.

I only brought WEBO up because they just so happened to score 8 points in 2 years and avoid the SF. I'm sure they aren't the only team to ever do that.

The system is flawed and it should be a year-to-year re-class of any two consecutive successful years (6 points).

Actually, I think they are ... I think they are the only exception so far ... at least among teams that won back-to-back state.  All other teams that won back-to-back state titles have moved up like LCC, Pioneer,   And even a couple that didn't like Scecina in 2011 and 2012, but still moved up via SF for 6 points.  I think that Columbus East also ended up with a split where they lost state in 5A in 2013 and then won in 2014, which would have been 7 points, but didn't move up for that pair of back-to-back LOS appearances.  That's not necessarily as big an issue given that their home class is actually 4A and they would have been heading up to 6A, but for the split eval year.

[Lysander]

12 minutes ago, foxbat said:

Actually, I think they are ... I think they are the only exception so far ... at least among teams that won back-to-back state.  All other teams that won back-to-back state titles have moved up like LCC, Pioneer,   And even a couple that didn't like Scecina in 2011 and 2012, but still moved up via SF for 6 points.  I think that Columbus East also ended up with a split where they lost state in 5A in 2013 and then won in 2014, which would have been 7 points, but didn't move up for that pair of back-to-back LOS appearances.  That's not necessarily as big an issue given that their home class is actually 4A and they would have been heading up to 6A, but for the split eval year.

To my knowledge (and I’ve tried to keep my eye on it) only they and New Pal are the exceptions.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Lysander

[foxbat]

11 minutes ago, Lysander said:

To my knowledge (and I’ve tried to keep my eye on it) only they and New Pal are the exceptions.

That's right.  I forgot about NewPal.  Didn't new Pal actually do this twice, but one time was in different classes?  They won state last year and in 2018 in 5A, so avoided SF.  They also won in 2014 as 4A and were runner-up in 2015 as 5A, but that also straddled an eval period. 

[JustRules]

I often see people say a school shouldn't be "punished" for having a good class by having to bump up for the following class. First, it has no affect whatsoever on the regular season. If we had a system where you play the regular season in your class/sectional then I see this argument. Second, it does affect what sectional you start in, but how much harder that is depends entirely on your location. Some areas may have a tougher 2A sectional than a 3A sectional for example. Related to that. the competitive teams in one class are often competitive with the top teams of the class above them. If you have a down year and don't do well in the tournament a class above you, you probably wouldn't have done great in your regular class either. The luck of the section assignment and draw does play a factor in that though.

I think the 2-year cycle makes a lot of sense and I think it's been a success overall. Don't expect it to be perfect. The beauty of if it is is affects public schools the same as private schools. It has changed up some of the teams in each class and created some fun, new match-ups. Look at the profiles of New Pal and Columbus East through these processes. They both have done very well regardless of class. The IHSAA doesn't do much right, but this is one I think they did get right.

[crimsonace1]

5 hours ago, foxbat said:

Actually, I think they are ... I think they are the only exception so far ... at least among teams that won back-to-back state.  All other teams that won back-to-back state titles have moved up like LCC, Pioneer,   And even a couple that didn't like Scecina in 2011 and 2012, but still moved up via SF for 6 points.  I think that Columbus East also ended up with a split where they lost state in 5A in 2013 and then won in 2014, which would have been 7 points, but didn't move up for that pair of back-to-back LOS appearances.  That's not necessarily as big an issue given that their home class is actually 4A and they would have been heading up to 6A, but for the split eval year.

The cycles begin with odd-numbered years. Columbus East won the 4A title in 2013 and then lost to New Palestine in the 2014 semistate ... that gave them the 6 points to bump up to 5A for 2015-16 (which it would have anyway due to enrollment). 

Because East was 6A this year and a bumped team can only drop one class, it will go back to 5A next year no matter its enrollment. 

[XStar]

12 hours ago, RoadRunner said:

Thank you for making my case for me. If you read back on my first post, I sarcastically stated that you have to tell your kids to pick the right two years to be good! Because if you don't you get bumped.  I did not make this about Southridge, @XStar did. This is a public forum and I have no affiliation with Southridge other than being an alumni/fan. Just putting my 2 cents in on the topic at hand.

I only brought WEBO up because they just so happened to score 8 points in 2 years and avoid the SF. I'm sure they aren't the only team to ever do that.

The system is flawed and it should be a year-to-year re-class of any two consecutive successful years (6 points).

Any chance you're going to get over it in the next few years or will I keep seeing this whine throughout the 2020's?

[1st_and_10]

On 11/19/2020 at 3:56 AM, XStar said:

Any chance you're going to get over it in the next few years or will I keep seeing this whine throughout the 2020's?

No.  They wont... All you will hear from several Southridge fans is how they should be 2A...Except they are 3A again for the next 2 years but whatever

[Gipper]

On 11/18/2020 at 4:55 AM, dmizers3 said:

Not shocking that the IHSAA would screw that up also.  I think the success factor is a good idea but the 2 year cycle is terrible. 1 really good class means you stand a good chance of getting bumped up.  2 years of success doesn't make you dominant. 

I totally agree.  Teams have good rides for a 2-4 year period.  Sustaining that for more than 5 is what it should be.