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2020 Mr. Football


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Just now, temptation said:

I always like this argument and it actually strengthens McCahill's argument.  Take he and Steele off of their respective teams and tell me who has the larger drop off?

Cathedral was blessed to have few injuries this year, no significant losses for multiple games.  I would hate to think what the Irish would do without Nate.  He was the onfield leader of the team.  The Irish would have been a good team but not as good without him.

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3 minutes ago, PHJIrish said:

Cathedral was blessed to have few injuries this year, no significant losses for multiple games.  I would hate to think what the Irish would do without Nate.  He was the onfield leader of the team.  The Irish would have been a good team but not as good without him.

Now do CG.

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15 minutes ago, Grover said:

Look at last year's results with and without Steele for an answer.

Can I also look at Cathedral's without McCahill?

If you take away Steele's 1600+ rushing yards, Center Grove STILL racks up 2000+ on the season, good for just outside the top 10 of all 6A programs...

Edited by temptation
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I would be Happy if the split the offense and defense up. There will probably not be a defensive Mr. Football ever again because you would have to be the freakiest of athlete with the gaudiest of numbers to do so... A shutdown corner can't win because they simply stop running his way... A DL won't win because they will just double team the heck out of him, but next year could get interesting because I can see them giving to Curry as a career award if he is as effective next year without Booker next to him... LB probably not as he would have to control the game in a spectacular way... I am not sure that McGrone got a look and he was dominant his Sr year.... 

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16 minutes ago, Grover said:

If he only played for part of the season that would be a great comparison.

I see your point but I think CG still wins 6A comfortably without Steele.  5A is a bit more wide open if you take McCahill off of Cathedral.  I think the Irish still win it, but it’s a struggle.

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2 hours ago, temptation said:

I see your point but I think CG still wins 6A comfortably without Steele.  5A is a bit more wide open if you take McCahill off of Cathedral.  I think the Irish still win it, but it’s a struggle.

I would agree with you.  Losing Nate would have really hurt Cathedral this year.  

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No disrespect to Steele because in the end he’s still my pick to win, but you could make the case that Steele was only the 3rd or 4th best player on his team this year. Watching the CG-Cathedral game live, Austin Booker was the best player on the field that night. Curry, a junior, is ineligible for the award. Jackson didn’t have a great night statistically and made several mistakes, but atoned for it with his epic last minute drive.

Even if Steele plays later into games not sure the argument changes much. Obviously more appealing stats but still.

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10 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

No disrespect to Steele because in the end he’s still my pick to win, but you could make the case that Steele was only the 3rd or 4th best player on his team this year. Watching the CG-Cathedral game live, Austin Booker was the best player on the field that night. Curry, a junior, is ineligible for the award. Jackson didn’t have a great night statistically and made several mistakes, but atoned for it with his epic last minute drive.

Even if Steele plays later into games not sure the argument changes much. Obviously more appealing stats but still.

After more reflection, it's pretty simple to me...

If it is viewed as a career award, its Steele's to lose.

If it is a reflection of the BEST senior player on a championship team in 2020, its McCahill.

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Here are some facts:

Baron Huebler
328 attempts (#3)
2317 rushing yards (#2)
165.5 yards per game (#11)
7.1 yards per carry 
32 rushing TDs (#1 tied)
14 receptions
106 receiving yards
2 TDs
34 Total TDs (#1)

Carson Steele
264 attempts (#6)
1659 rushing yards (#12)
118.5 yards per game (#57)
6.3 yards per carry
31 rushing TDs (#3)
7 receptions
152 receiving yards
2 TDs
33 Total TDs (#2)

The strength of schedule is considerably different, but it is important to note that we struggled to get Baron 100 yards against the worst teams on our schedule due to running clocks and big pass plays. He ran for almost 500 against #1 Mt Vernon and #2 Mooresville and a ton against #6 East Central. 

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7 minutes ago, temptation said:

You answered your own question.  CG could also cite the same issue when it comes to running clocks with Steele.

He still out rushed him by 658 yards.  That means Huebler ran for 40% more yards. And he averaged more per carry. Roncalli’s strength of schedule does not negate that difference (still in the top 40). 

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2 minutes ago, The TW said:

He still out rushed him by 658 yards.  That means Huebler ran for 40% more yards. And he averaged more per carry. Roncalli’s strength of schedule does not negate that difference (still in the top 40). 

You could definitely make a case.  I think McCahill should win actually.

Knowing how these things go, I think Huebler is a long shot but is definitely worthy of consideration for the reasons you mentioned.

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Just now, temptation said:

You could definitely make a case.  I think McCahill should win actually.

Knowing how these things go, I think Huebler is a long shot but is definitely worthy of consideration for the reasons you mentioned.

I agree on all accounts!

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2 hours ago, temptation said:

After more reflection, it's pretty simple to me...

If it is viewed as a career award, its Steele's to lose.

If it is a reflection of the BEST senior player on a championship team in 2020, its McCahill.

I agree with your assessment.

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8 hours ago, Jon said:

If Nate played for Center Grove this year do you think he would be in the running? I don't think he could get the stats. It's argueable that there are many senior QBs that you could plug into cathedral team and have equal or better year, Donaven Mcculley is first off the top of my head.

Yes I do think he would have the stats as long as Center Grove ran the spread offense. The stats McCahill put up were against some very solid defenses and a schedule very comparable to the MIC. Two of their opponents were MIC teams in Carmel and Center Grove. Westfield had a very good defense. Chatard had a very good Defense. Cincinnati St. Xavier and Cincinnati LaSalle both had very good defense (all 4 of LaSalle's DB's are going D-1 the best of the 4 going to Alabama). Cincinnati Elder did not have a spectacular defense but had a good offense. Penn and Brebeuf were not spectacular defenses. So yes I think McCahill would have the stats and be in the running if CG ran more of the spread offense.

That being said CG being a majority Wing T offense lends itself more to Carson Steele and Cathedral's spread offense lends itself to Nate McCahill. Yes Donavan McCulley could put up the same stats for Cathedral. The reason I think he won't be in the running is because he did not make it out of sectionals.

1 minute ago, southend said:

A lot of top notch athletes this year for sure.  

Absolutely!

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In my opinion your front runners (in no particular order):

Nathan McCahill (Cathedral)
227 of 333 comp/att
3,125 passing yards
0.682 comp %
223.2 pass yards per game
13.8 pass yards per comp
41 pass TD's
4 Int's
136 rush attempts
823 rush yards
6.1 yards per carry
13 TD's
3,948 total yds
54 total TD's
6.3 yards per carry
31 rushing TDs
 

Carson Steele (Center Grove)
264 attempts
1659 rushing yards
118.5 yards per game
6.3 yards per carry
31 rushing TDs
7 receptions
152 receiving yards
2 TDs
33 Total TDs

Baron Huebler (Roncalli)
328 attempts
2317 rushing yards
165.5 yards per game
7.1 yards per carry 
32 rushing TDs
14 receptions
106 receiving yards
2 TDs
34 Total TDs

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1 hour ago, FastpacedO said:

In my opinion your front runners (in no particular order):

Nathan McCahill (Cathedral)
227 of 333 comp/att
3,125 passing yards
0.682 comp %
223.2 pass yards per game
13.8 pass yards per comp
41 pass TD's
4 Int's
136 rush attempts
823 rush yards
6.1 yards per carry
13 TD's
3,948 total yds
54 total TD's
6.3 yards per carry
31 rushing TDs
 

Carson Steele (Center Grove)
264 attempts
1659 rushing yards
118.5 yards per game
6.3 yards per carry
31 rushing TDs
7 receptions
152 receiving yards
2 TDs
33 Total TDs

Baron Huebler (Roncalli)
328 attempts
2317 rushing yards
165.5 yards per game
7.1 yards per carry 
32 rushing TDs
14 receptions
106 receiving yards
2 TDs
34 Total TDs

I think Huebler being a late canidate hurts him.  Mr. Football like the Heisman has early favorites that get more attention because they are early front runners.

Roncalli's rise in attention was really in the second half of the season.  His stats would have been better if the Southport game had been played.

 

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10 hours ago, Jon said:

If Nate played for Center Grove this year do you think he would be in the running? I don't think he could get the stats. It's argueable that there are many senior QBs that you could plug into cathedral team and have equal or better year, Donaven Mcculley is first off the top of my head.

Correct.  Both McCahill and Steele were the primary offensive weapons/options for their team.  It is obviously easier to accumulate passing yardage so the percentages will always work in the QB's favor.  

Playing the other side of the coin, how many other RB's could you plug into Center Grove's system and they equaled or bettered Steele's rushing numbers?  Hell, you might not even have to go to another team.  Steele averaged 6.3 yards per carry this fall and Daniel Weems averaged 5.6.  Not really a significant drop off.

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40 minutes ago, Jon said:

Against Best defense in the state of Indiana (Center Grove) Cathedral Nathan Mccahill had the 7th best performance

  1. Lawrence North Donaven Mcculle
    • Pass: 16-28, 256 yds, 1 tds   
  2. Ben Davis J'uan Swanson - Jr
    •  Pass: 17-27, 223 yds, 1 tds  
  3. Ben Davis J'uan Swanson - Jr (simi-state)
    • Pass:  15-30, 207 yds, 2 tds  
  4. Pike Anthony Cialdella - Sr
    • Pass: 15-33, 195 yds, 1 tds  
  5. Westfield  Maximus Webster - SR
    • Pass: 16-28, 160 yds, 1 tds  
  6. Decatur Central  Peyton Horsley - Sr
    •  Pass:  9-19, 157 yds, 1 tds  
  7. Cathedral Nathan Mccahill - Sr
    • Pass: 10-17, 126 yds, 1 tds 

How many of those QB's were down by multiple scores in the 2nd half and needed to throw to play catch-up and abandon the run? Did McCahill have his best game against CG? Nope. Did he have a terrible game? Nope. It was 13-10 Cathedral with the lead with 1:19 in the 4th qtr. We all know what happened from there the Irish decided to go for it and selected a play Coach Peebles admitted he wish he would have picked a different play. How many teams had Center Grove on the ropes with 1:19 left in the 4th in an eventual 17-13 loss. McCahill did nothing to lose the game had no turnovers and played well enough for them to win.

By the way McCahill was 12 of 19 for 123 yds. 63 Comp % and 10.3 yds per play 1 TD 0 Int's.  

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56 minutes ago, Jon said:

Against Best defense in the state of Indiana (Center Grove) Cathedral Nathan Mccahill had the 7th best performance

  1. Lawrence North Donaven Mcculle
    • Pass: 16-28, 256 yds, 1 tds   
  2. Ben Davis J'uan Swanson - Jr
    •  Pass: 17-27, 223 yds, 1 tds  
  3. Ben Davis J'uan Swanson - Jr (simi-state)
    • Pass:  15-30, 207 yds, 2 tds  
  4. Pike Anthony Cialdella - Sr
    • Pass: 15-33, 195 yds, 1 tds  
  5. Westfield  Maximus Webster - SR
    • Pass: 16-28, 160 yds, 1 tds  
  6. Decatur Central  Peyton Horsley - Sr
    •  Pass:  9-19, 157 yds, 1 tds  
  7. Cathedral Nathan Mccahill - Sr
    • Pass: 10-17, 126 yds, 1 tds 

If Cathedral converts the 4th and 1 and wins the game, pretty easy to look past his one pedestrian game. Would possibly be a unanimous pick if Cathedral went 15-0 against that schedule.

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1 minute ago, FastpacedO said:

How many of those QB's were down by multiple scores in the 2nd half and needed to throw to play catch-up and abandon the run? Did McCahill have his best game against CG? Nope. Did he have a terrible game? Nope. It was 13-10 Cathedral with the lead with 1:19 in the 4th qtr. We all know what happened from there the Irish decided to go for it and selected a play Coach Peebles admitted he wish he would have picked a different play. How many teams had Center Grove on the ropes with 1:19 left in the 4th in an eventual 17-13 loss. McCahill did nothing to lose the game had no turnovers and played well enough for them to win.

By the way McCahill was 12 of 19 for 123 yds. 63 Comp % and 10.3 yds per play 1 TD 0 Int's.  

Couple key drops early in the game probably lost him some yardage as well. #13 might have went the distance on a slant route on the opening drive if he catches it and #22 dropped a big pass on 3rd and medium at the end of first quarter that would have been a 20+ yard gain.

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1 hour ago, Jon said:

Against Best defense in the state of Indiana (Center Grove) Cathedral Nathan Mccahill had the 7th best performance

  1. Lawrence North Donaven Mcculle
    • Pass: 16-28, 256 yds, 1 tds   
  2. Ben Davis J'uan Swanson - Jr
    •  Pass: 17-27, 223 yds, 1 tds  
  3. Ben Davis J'uan Swanson - Jr (simi-state)
    • Pass:  15-30, 207 yds, 2 tds  
  4. Pike Anthony Cialdella - Sr
    • Pass: 15-33, 195 yds, 1 tds  
  5. Westfield  Maximus Webster - SR
    • Pass: 16-28, 160 yds, 1 tds  
  6. Decatur Central  Peyton Horsley - Sr
    •  Pass:  9-19, 157 yds, 1 tds  
  7. Cathedral Nathan Mccahill - Sr
    • Pass: 10-17, 126 yds, 1 tds 

1. Lawrence North Lost 28-13 - McCulley 16 of 27 59% Comp 274 yds 1TD 1 Int

2. Ben Davis Lost 48-13 - Swanson 15 of 27 55% Comp 207 yds 2 TD 0 Int

3. Ben Davis Lost 35-12 - Swanson 17 of 27 63% Comp 161 yds 0 TD 3 Int

4. Pike Lost 57-14 - Cialdella 16 of 32 50% comp 192 yds 1 TD 0 Int

5. Westfield Lost 38-14 Webster 16 of 28 57% Comp 155 yds 1 TD 0 Int

6. Decatur Central Lost 56-14 - Horsley 9 of 18 50% Comp 157 yds 1 TD 2 Int

7. Cathedral Lost 17-13 - McCahill 12 of 19 63% Comp 123 yds 1 TD 0 Int

I put more accurate stats for you and put it more into context of which QB's were forced to throw because of the score instead of trying to run the ball at the end (Cathedral was trying to run clock in 4th qtr with a 13-10 lead). I also put what their completion percentage was and TD Int's. Note only 1 Swanson in his first meeting had a better completion percentage. Numbers make more sense in context rather than just looking at total yards.

 

 

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