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Covenent Christian - Why Privates Never Belong in 1A Football


Guest DT

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This is such bs. 
 

Man up and play the team in front of you. If you’re not competitive, get better. If a coach isn’t getting the job done, hold him accountable. 
 

Winning a state championship isn’t in the cards for some teams and it isn’t supposed to be, that’s what makes it special. Regardless if you are a public or private school you still have to put in the 17 weeks of work to get there and not have a bad week or half that gets you booted. 

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7 minutes ago, FarmerFran said:

This is such bs. 
 

Man up and play the team in front of you. If you’re not competitive, get better. If a coach isn’t getting the job done, hold him accountable. 
 

Winning a state championship isn’t in the cards for some teams and it isn’t supposed to be, that’s what makes it special. Regardless if you are a public or private school you still have to put in the 17 weeks of work to get there and not have a bad week or half that gets you booted. 

You can say that at a big school, where coaching and developing 100 potential players matters. It’s much different at 1A where you either luck into a good gene pool or not. 

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10 minutes ago, Thor77 said:

Back to DTs original point, do you think it’s ok for CC to be at state 6 years after starting a football program?

I don't have a problem with it.  If you show me something that they did illegally, then let's look.  LCC's been around since 1956.  Took 20 years before it had its first state title.  They then went on to lose out to many different public schools year in and year out taking no more so than a sectional.  Matter of fact, until this year, LCC usually either won it all or lost out early.  This is LCC's first semi-state loss in 1A.  Prior to this year, according to Harrell's, LCC's only had one other regional win where they didn't win state ... and that was in 2A under Success Factor over Lapel.  In essence, the school has been around 64 years, yet only won two regionals outside of a state title. 

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That means that, for 54 other years of LCC's existence 1A teams have all had opportunity.  Of course, LCC's got this "great advantage" which somehow or another they failed to capitalize on for the better part of about five decades including around 30 years ago when the school was scheduled to be shutdown until an 11th-hour appeal to the Bishop to keep the high school open.  It's taken them LOTS of effort and determination to get where they are, but it continually gets brushed aside like these kids are somehow or another just showing up and collecting trophies and "hiding out" from the competition.  The narrative is that LCC's "stealing opportunity from 1A schools, but in reality, 1A schools have had the opportunity 85% of the other seasons to not have LCC in the way.  And realize that, in four of those seasons, we're talking about an era of uniqueness that only a handful of 1A schools, like Sheridan and Pioneer, have experienced.

So to answer the question ... no, I don't have a problem with it.  In the same vein, I have no problem with Parke Heritage showing up last season as a consolidation of two schools which hadn't seen a sectional title between the two of them in a decade, and being a Top 10 team last season and this season in the IFCA Coaches' Poll.  It makes for good sound bite and clickbait, but I give the teams credit for what they do ... especially to South Adams for knocking off LCC this year in an unmistakable, decisive win that left no doubt as to who the better team was in that game.

 

 

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1 hour ago, DT said:

Frankfort was up this year and New Pal is down.  They play in separate conferences and avoid each other.  And how much of that do you really see?  A public playing above its class.  

 

You're avoiding the question.  You're going to seriously tell me that Frankfort's up year this season would keep them from getting beaten by New Pal in their down season? 

Actually we see it in a number of places ... well some of us see it.

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30 minutes ago, FarmerFran said:

This is such bs. 
 

Man up and play the team in front of you. If you’re not competitive, get better. If a coach isn’t getting the job done, hold him accountable. 
 

Winning a state championship isn’t in the cards for some teams and it isn’t supposed to be, that’s what makes it special. Regardless if you are a public or private school you still have to put in the 17 weeks of work to get there and not have a bad week or half that gets you booted. 

That sadly is not our society anymore.    We have an incoming President who wants to pay off college student loans with his very first executive order.    People that worked two jobs, and paid back their loans - too bad.    You get a 2.0 multiplier!  

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29 minutes ago, Thor77 said:

You can say that at a big school, where coaching and developing 100 potential players matters. It’s much different at 1A where you either luck into a good gene pool or not. 

I coach at 2a Pioneer. 1a enrollment school bumped up to 2a from success factor. I am well aware of the struggles that come with playing/ coaching at a small school. 
 

You will hear no one from our staff complain about our position in 2a. We played “above our weight” winning a sectional and beating a very good Andrean team. We just ran out of bodies and gas against a very good Luers team. 
 

Saying that coaching and development only matters at large schools is an ignorant statement. 

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46 minutes ago, Canoer said:

I agree there should be no 1A private schools. The biggest problem I’ve had is these private schools (LCC) will win a couple state titles in a row move up to 2A then tank a couple of seasons back down to 1A , so your telling me LCC couldn’t win 2 sectionals in 2A to stay in 2A ? And then their right back winning state championships !!! Look at Indianapolis Lutheran in Softball they do the same think win a couple state championships up to 2A and then 3 years later back down in 1A their back in the state championship game again !!! They have done it many times !!! Look what happened to Pioneer they did win enough to stay in 2A but up against FWBL couple of kids got hurt then couldn’t compete as well 30 kids on the side line compared to 70 you don’t have the numbers. LCC at one time played separate offense team and defense most 1A schools kids play both ways the entire game ! Ok done with my rant against private schools in 1A 

I'm going to call BS!  First of all, you are completely crazy if you think that LCC "throws games" to go back to 1A.  Secondly, you are talking from a position of not knowing at all, but again, it's all about perception, not reality.  In the years that LCC was in 2A, there was a different SF model where a school needed at least 3-4 points to stay up in 2A ... that has been reduced to 2 points now ... AFTER LCC was in 1A.  In the two years that LCC was in 2A, to again refute the insane idea that they threw games, LCC lost in a sectional game to eventual state runner up Tipton 28-24 and was about 25 seconds from taking that game which was the second sectional game.  In the following year, LCC lost to eventual 2A state champion RCHS 17-14 in semi-state.  You really believe that LCC would "throw" a 2A semi-state game with a chance to go play a 2A state title game that they likely would have won?  Also, by that type of statement, you also diminish the efforts of fellow HC competitors Tipton and RCHS who fought hard for their games that year and I think would set you very straight about whether or not they thought LCC was "phoning it it" or "dogging it" to get back to 1A.  I'd suggest, if you want a direct accounting on this, you check in with @Coach Nowlin who was with that championship RCHS team on the sidelines.  I'm pretty sure he'll shoot straight with you about whether or LCC was dogging it.

 

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Id be very satisfied if the IHSAA were to set a mandate that automatically excludes all PPs/Privates from Class 1A football.

Covenent was able to build a state championship level program in 5 years utilizing vast people resources that are not available to traditional rural and city public 1As.  This is a huge unfair advantage CC has and it has leveraged that advantage ten fold.  CC is basically a mini version of Cathedral.  

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2 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Why would they take kids from South Bend for football.  Wouldn't be a help to their program.  Who is going to get them to LaVille?

Didnt the Wieczorek kid (i know he didn't play football) come from Clay or Riley? Pretty good basketball and baseball guy. 

I am sure there are a few kids with good coaching may be better then what they are at Adams/Riley/Clay+ they aren't playing as good of teams either. 

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5 hours ago, Thor77 said:

How about just being a 1A in a metro area? Sure, schools don’t actively recruit, but now CC has the Indy area to get potential players from, while the Adams county schools have to pluck kids from a cornfield. 

Come on man.  How many move ins does SA have?  I know of 2 from Texas who now live in wells county but somehow play in Adams co?  SA recruits just as well as CC.

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1 hour ago, DT said:

Id be very satisfied if the IHSAA were to set a mandate that automatically excludes all PPs/Privates from Class 1A football.

Covenent was able to build a state championship level program in 5 years utilizing vast people resources that are not available to traditional rural and city public 1As.  This is a huge unfair advantage CC has and it has leveraged that advantage ten fold.  CC is basically a mini version of Cathedral.  

Recruiting is not just a PP opportunity.  SA recruits just as well.  It’s a fair fight which, based on the film I’ve seen, CC will win.

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1 hour ago, Purdue Pete said:

Come on man.  How many move ins does SA have?  I know of 2 from Texas who now live in wells county but somehow play in Adams co?  SA recruits just as well as CC.

Lmao we have two move ins and they're from Texas. Obviously we recruited them. Everyone else on our team is Berne raised. 

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1 hour ago, Purdue Pete said:

Come on man.  How many move ins does SA have?  I know of 2 from Texas who now live in wells county but somehow play in Adams co?  SA recruits just as well as CC.

Biggest reach of the year..... do you think before you post ever? If South Adams recruits why aren’t there more kids from Texas or literally from anywhere else? 1 single move in and you accuse a school of recruiting. Dumb post by you

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1 minute ago, Antonio Browns Alter Ego said:

Biggest reach of the year..... do you think before you post ever? If South Adams recruits why aren’t there more kids from Texas or literally from anywhere else? 1 single move in and you accuse a school of recruiting. Dumb post by you

The point is that EVERYONE does it now.  Why aren’t they playing for Bluffton or Norwell?  Because they saw an opportunity and SA athletic dept gave the thumbs up.  I don’t fault them.  But you guys need to quit whining about recruiting and just show up and play. 😢😢😢

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11 minutes ago, Thor77 said:

Lmao we have two move ins and they're from Texas. Obviously we recruited them. Everyone else on our team is Berne raised. 

Just stop whining 😢😢about CC recruiting.  Those two should be playing for Bluffton right???? 

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2 hours ago, Purdue Pete said:

The point is that EVERYONE does it now.  Why aren’t they playing for Bluffton or Norwell?  Because they saw an opportunity and SA athletic dept gave the thumbs up.  I don’t fault them.  But you guys need to quit whining about recruiting and just show up and play. 😢😢😢

I haven’t once said anything about cc recruiting so nice try. You just are talking out your rear about a South Adams recruiting. You really think a family is going to move from Texas, where football is basically religion and say, “I want to go to South Adams, they have won 2 regional titles in their history”. No family being recruited is going to go to a school without a culture and history of success. South Adams has built that now with kids in their program since they were in elementary school. 

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2 minutes ago, Antonio Browns Alter Ego said:

I haven’t once said anything about cc recruiting so nice try. You just are talking out your ass about a South Adams recruiting. You really think a family is going to move from Texas, where football is basically religion and say, “I want to go to South Adams, they have won 2 regional titles in their history”. No family being recruited is going to go to a school without a culture and history of success. South Adams has built that now with kids in their program since they were in elementary school. 

I apologize.  I was lumping u in with Thor who Chastised cc.  

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2 minutes ago, Purdue Pete said:

I apologize.  I was lumping u in with Thor who Chastised cc.  

Didn’t chastise, didn’t claim they recruited. Just said in general small private schools have a whole city’s worth of potential athletes to go to their school. Didn’t say they recruited them. 

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19 minutes ago, Purdue Pete said:

The point is that EVERYONE does it now.  Why aren’t they playing for Bluffton or Norwell?  Because they saw an opportunity and SA athletic dept gave the thumbs up.  I don’t fault them.  But you guys need to quit whining about recruiting and just show up and play. 😢😢😢

Yeah well recruiting from the vast Greene County is still never gonna match up with recruiting metro areas such as Indy, Ft. Wayne, Evansville etc....

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6 hours ago, foxbat said:

Actually, what you want to see and when you want to see it are the difference.  You want to see everything RIGHT NOW and don't seem to be willing to wait out SF to work itself out.  Realistically, if Roncalli really is a TRUE 6A school, it will get there eventually via SF provided that IHSAA doesn't get too cute and put them in the same sectional with someone like Cathedral where it has to be either/or.  In the same way, if Cathedral really was a true 6A school, and at best they are a lower-rung 6A, SF would keep them up in 6A.  Similarly, should Chatard get to 4A, assuming the IHSAA doesn't do, what our good friend @Impartial_Observer refers to as "stepping on their d*cks," and keeps them out of the same sectional with Roncalli, there will be ample opportunity for them to stay in 4A.  If Chatard really is a 4A or 5A school, then it's just a matter of time before 1) SF gets them there and 2) SF keeps them there ... again, assuming someone not getting "cute" with sectional assignments. 

This also goes to the problem, as I pointed out before, about a multiplier vs. SF.  SF moves based on performance and performance takes time.  Multiplier is done right now, but doesn't really achieve competitiveness, it only punishes or cripples.  So the questions really are, do you REALLY want competitiveness?  Do you REALLY want revenge/crippling?  And if it's the former, then why would you not be willing to see competitiveness shake out?

I don’t disagree with any of that, the only issue I’ve had all along is SF rewards/penalizes the next two teams for the last two teams.

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2 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

I don’t disagree with any of that, the only issue I’ve had all along is SF rewards/penalizes the next two teams for the last two teams.

Agreed.   I'd like to see the 4-year cycle myself ... would likely be better averaging out.  Or even the proposal I put forth with a four-year cycle in another thread.

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49 minutes ago, Antonio Browns Alter Ego said:

Biggest reach of the year..... do you think before you post ever? If South Adams recruits why aren’t there more kids from Texas or literally from anywhere else? 1 single move in and you accuse a school of recruiting. Dumb post by you

And still no answer to the question as to why two athletes living in wells co are playing for for a team in Adams co.

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6 hours ago, Bobref said:

We want the same thing, and for the same reason. We just differ on the tool to use. The “2.0 Multiplier” is a blunt instrument. Inflexible. It paints with too broad a brush. The Success Factor, especially if it were modified to a 4 yr. cycle, is a surgical blade.

Amen Bobref.  The next logical step needed to improve the Success Factor would be the use of a longer period of time, preferably a "rolling" 3-4 year period, that would adjust annually.  Under such a system, the effects would be immediate and would not affect students 1-2 2 years removed from the "success" they had nothing to do with.

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