Gipper Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 6 minutes ago, FarmerFran said: Pioneer dressed right around 30 at semistate, but dressed as low as 26 I believe during the course of the season due to injury. Thanks, I’ll just stick to nicknames:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, NPCougarNation said: I would say that the program is doing itself a disservice by not fidning a tougher conference to play in to get more competition. Hear that Hoosier Conference? Make the call - 765-654-8545 Also the Sagamore has two schools in this year's title game: Danville and Western Boone. Tough enough competition for you? Edited November 25, 2020 by Muda69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa B Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 3 hours ago, DT said: Attucks should contract. No school should be allowed to play a varsity game with 14 players. Its dangerous, especially against a high level team We have previously proposed minimum roster size requirements by class, for the express purpose of maintaining competitive balance and avoiding serious injuries based on mismatches. The minimum roster size for Class A would be 22 Several players from Bishop Noll were seriously injured in these types of mismatches over the past few seasons. It impacts both PPs and publics. It would be a loss to see Attucks drop football. Those 14 players played the game with great passion and many of them were very good football players. and they should not have to leave Attucks to go play for another school. Has to be another solution out there. Is 14 players too few? Most likely. Not sure you need 22 to play in Class A or AA. I wonder how many schools in Class A or AA have 8 or 9 kids playing both ways. If you have 8 playing both ways you can field a team with 14 kids in theory. Again, 14 is most likely not enough especailly against a 3A or 4A school. Hope they find a solution that does not involve dropping football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa B Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 3 hours ago, Muda69 said: Good. Then we can throw the entire enrollment based classification system out the window, can't we? Sure we can! As long as they come up with a formula that is fair and gives all teams an opportunity to win at least a sectional. Putting 4A teams in 6A and 2A teams in 4A via a multiplier is not fair as I have explained over and over and over for 15 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Grandpa B said: It would be a loss to see Attucks drop football. Those 14 players played the game with great passion and many of them were very good football players. and they should not have to leave Attucks to go play for another school. Has to be another solution out there. Is 14 players too few? Most likely. Not sure you need 22 to play in Class A or AA. I wonder how many schools in Class A or AA have 8 or 9 kids playing both ways. If you have 8 playing both ways you can field a team with 14 kids in theory. Again, 14 is most likely not enough especailly against a 3A or 4A school. Hope they find a solution that does not involve dropping football. Im disappointed to read your response. I know you to be a level headed individual and a passionate supporter of your school. But to think that the idea of sending your 70 dressed Rebels with their extensive coaching, training and support level against 14 inner city kids and all the challenges they face is somehow OK is discouraging. Nothing could be more out of balance than this particular example. Perhaps we need IHSAA mandadted roster minumums for the tournament to avoid such a gravesty. Im sure RHS could have put 100 on the board had they wanted to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa B Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Just now, DT said: Im disappointed to read your response. I know you to be a level headed individual and a passionate supporter of your school. But to think that the idea of sending your 70 dressed Rebels with their extensive coaching, training and support level against 14 inner city kids and all the challenges they face is somehow OK is discouraging. Nothing could be more out of balance than this particular example. Perhaps we need IHSAA mandadted roster minumums for the tournament to avoid such a gravesty. Im sure RHS could have put 100 on the board had they wanted to. Maybe I was not clear. Crispus Attucks should NEVER EVER have had to play a game against Roncalli. Never. Agreed this is the perfect example of "Out of Balance". As stated, I think if you are going to move teams up for success, how about moving them down especially related to roster size. Not bought in completely to moving down because of performance. Should Perry Meridian get to move down because of their lack of success in 6A - not sure I would agree with that. Should Attucks be able to move down because of roster size - 100% agree. (Note: The Roncalli kicker was hurt during the Attucks game and Roncalli missed 4 straight extra points. Asked the OC why with a hurt kicker did you not just go for 2. His response, "no way I am going for 2 against a team with 14 players". Great response). Wonder what it takes to get a position in front of the IHSAA to look at mandated minimums or really look at moving teams down for roster size or possibly poor performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Grandpa B said: Maybe I was not clear. Crispus Attucks should NEVER EVER have had to play a game against Roncalli. Never. Agreed this is the perfect example of "Out of Balance". As stated, I think if you are going to move teams up for success, how about moving them down especially related to roster size. Not bought in completely to moving down because of performance. Should Perry Meridian get to move down because of their lack of success in 6A - not sure I would agree with that. Should Attucks be able to move down because of roster size - 100% agree. (Note: The Roncalli kicker was hurt during the Attucks game and Roncalli missed 4 straight extra points. Asked the OC why with a hurt kicker did you not just go for 2. His response, "no way I am going for 2 against a team with 14 players". Great response). Wonder what it takes to get a position in front of the IHSAA to look at mandated minimums or really look at moving teams down for roster size or possibly poor performance. We have approx 420 high schools in Indiana, and 100 have chosen not to play football. Perhaps Attucks is at that crossroads where extreme low participation, general overall lack of interest and support, and consistently dismal on field results combine to force the shutdown of the program. We have a general approach around here that focuses on the few kids who might lose the opportunity to play. What we dont focus on is the new opportunities that football dollars reallocated will open up for many others. If Attucks has any "football players," they have the opportunity to go to Tech. Kids travel from 30 miles plus out to get to Roncalli. Im sure a commute a few miles across town is feasible for those at Attucks who wish to continue their grid careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerFran Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 54 minutes ago, DT said: We have approx 420 high schools in Indiana, and 100 have chosen not to play football. Perhaps Attucks is at that crossroads where extreme low participation, general overall lack of interest and support, and consistently dismal on field results combine to force the shutdown of the program. We have a general approach around here that focuses on the few kids who might lose the opportunity to play. What we dont focus on is the new opportunities that football dollars reallocated will open up for many others. If Attucks has any "football players," they have the opportunity to go to Tech. Kids travel from 30 miles plus out to get to Roncalli. Im sure a commute a few miles across town is feasible for those at Attucks who wish to continue their grid careers. Had Covid not happened Attucks would have had more players. With virtual learning going there were several kids that did not have access ( transportation ) to school. In 2019, they won a section game and finished the season at 7-3. If I’m not mistaken they had 40-50 kids on last years roster as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 3 hours ago, DT said: Im disappointed to read your response. I know you to be a level headed individual and a passionate supporter of your school. But to think that the idea of sending your 70 dressed Rebels with their extensive coaching, training and support level against 14 inner city kids and all the challenges they face is somehow OK is discouraging. Nothing could be more out of balance than this particular example. Perhaps we need IHSAA mandadted roster minumums for the tournament to avoid such a gravesty. Im sure RHS could have put 100 on the board had they wanted to. O M G! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Bring back personal, individual responsibility. Making it the #1 priority for all people, in all aspects of life and the problem is solved. Until this issue is addressed and fulfilled, every "solution" is just an excuse. Have a great day all and a wonderful Thanksgiving. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 6 hours ago, Grandpa B said: Sure we can! As long as they come up with a formula that is fair and gives all teams an opportunity to win at least a sectional. Putting 4A teams in 6A and 2A teams in 4A via a multiplier is not fair as I have explained over and over and over for 15 years. Life isn't fair. Children need to learn that and get used to it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 1 hour ago, FarmerFran said: Had Covid not happened Attucks would have had more players. With virtual learning going there were several kids that did not have access ( transportation ) to school. In 2019, they won a section game and finished the season at 7-3. If I’m not mistaken they had 40-50 kids on last years roster as well. I have said repeatedly that you can expect some post COVID football program contraction. Keep an eye on Attucks. They are a prime candidate to shut down. And they should Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 28 minutes ago, Muda69 said: Life isn't fair. Children need to learn that and get used to it. Exactly. The same reason Frankfort should play in 4A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa B Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 26 minutes ago, Muda69 said: Life isn't fair. Children need to learn that and get used to it. I actually laughed out loud when I saw that response. Since I can remember (at least 15 years) you have been advocating that the advantages of the PP's have is not FAIR. You want to level the playing field to make it fair. I really can't square that comment from you. and for the record, I agree with you. I just received a call from an Army Officer I served with before I retired. Told me just how much the Army has changed (to the detriment of good order and discipline) because political correctness. Said I would not recognize the Army I served in and I only retired in 2014. So many in society demand that we make like fair for everyone. When you do that you make life fair for no one. My opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa B Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 12 minutes ago, DT said: I have said repeatedly that you can expect some post COVID football program contraction. Keep an eye on Attucks. They are a prime candidate to shut down. And they should Might disagree with you on this more so than moving Roncalli up to 6A (which has a 0.0003 chance of happening) . It was stated here that Attucks had over 40 players just last year. These kids need football, don't take it away from them. And saying they can go to Tech is no answer. They want to play for the High School that they attend. I know a teacher at Attucks and if most of the teachers are like him, then Attucks is in a good place. Let them play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DE said: Bring back personal, individual responsibility. Making it the #1 priority for all people, in all aspects of life and the problem is solved. Until this issue is addressed and fulfilled, every "solution" is just an excuse. Have a great day all and a wonderful Thanksgiving. Amazing that TSG and Scarab do not believe that personal responsibility needs addressing. Says all we need to know about them and so many others in this world. Edited November 25, 2020 by DE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarab527 Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 18 minutes ago, DE said: Amazing that TSG and Scarab do not believe that personal responsibility needs addressing. Says all we need to know about them and so many others in this world. Lol some of us just don’t care to see people regurgitate meaningless platitudes about personal responsibility in a post about high school football which has nothing to do with personal responsibility. The fact that you’re so triggered by people on the internet rolling their eyes at your cookie cutter platitudes that you have to launch ad hominem attacks at them just shows how utterly insecure you are in your own life. Please work on your own obvious self-loathing before trying to attack random strangers on the internet. Or just save your comments for the posts where you can think about your glory years at LC 30 years ago. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodney Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 On 11/22/2020 at 9:34 AM, DT said: If it werent for all these little guys, we would be much closer to the Magic 280 goal I am fully on board with your new plan to achieve 280, still think the idea in general is bordering retarded, however as they say if the means justify the ends. Count me in, happy to find a thread of yours I can agree to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DE Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 2 hours ago, scarab527 said: Lol some of us just don’t care to see people regurgitate meaningless platitudes about personal responsibility in a post about high school football which has nothing to do with personal responsibility. The fact that you’re so triggered by people on the internet rolling their eyes at your cookie cutter platitudes that you have to launch ad hominem attacks at them just shows how utterly insecure you are in your own life. Please work on your own obvious self-loathing before trying to attack random strangers on the internet. Or just save your comments for the posts where you can think about your glory years at LC 30 years ago. I stand by the facts I stated that DIRECTLY are related to discussion points in this thread. Have a great Thanksgiving. 3 hours ago, scarab527 said: Lol some of us just don’t care to see people regurgitate meaningless platitudes about personal responsibility in a post about high school football which has nothing to do with personal responsibility. The fact that you’re so triggered by people on the internet rolling their eyes at your cookie cutter platitudes that you have to launch ad hominem attacks at them just shows how utterly insecure you are in your own life. Please work on your own obvious self-loathing before trying to attack random strangers on the internet. Or just save your comments for the posts where you can think about your glory years at LC 30 years ago. Hit a nerve huh? Be well young man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarab527 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, DE said: I stand by the facts I stated that DIRECTLY are related to discussion points in this thread. Have a great Thanksgiving. Hit a nerve huh? Be well young man. Lol clearly I hit a nerve seeing as you got triggered that someone disliked your comment and are now commenting back-to-back about. You also stated literally zero facts whatsoever. Be well you angry middle-aged child. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 4 hours ago, gonzoron said: Exactly. The same reason Frankfort should play in 4A. It does play in the 4A state tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Grandpa B said: I actually laughed out loud when I saw that response. Since I can remember (at least 15 years) you have been advocating that the advantages of the PP's have is not FAIR. You want to level the playing field to make it fair. I really can't square that comment from you. and for the record, I agree with you. I just received a call from an Army Officer I served with before I retired. Told me just how much the Army has changed (to the detriment of good order and discipline) because political correctness. Said I would not recognize the Army I served in and I only retired in 2014. So many in society demand that we make like fair for everyone. When you do that you make life fair for no one. My opinion. So the IHSAA trying to make the football tournament "fair" by using a simplistic enrollment-based classification system then bolting on a "success factor" to try and make it "more fair" is a non-starter. Only a true system of promotion and relegation will fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DT Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 14 minutes ago, Muda69 said: So the IHSAA trying to make the football tournament "fair" by using a simplistic enrollment-based classification system then bolting on a "success factor" to try and make it "more fair" is a non-starter. Only a true system of promotion and relegation will fix it. Im not sure that system exists. I would like to see the details and compare it against he tools in the tool box the IHSAA uses to promote competitive balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa B Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Muda69 said: So the IHSAA trying to make the football tournament "fair" by using a simplistic enrollment-based classification system then bolting on a "success factor" to try and make it "more fair" is a non-starter. Only a true system of promotion and relegation will fix it. I do not believe that the current system is perfect. Not sure if any state has the perfect formula. I would fully support a "true system of promotion AND relegation". An arbitrary 2.0 multiplier on PP schoos is a non-starter, but I would be interested in having a discussion about what fair looks like. I have said for years that PP schools have an advantage over public school. We have listed those numerous times (social-economic, parent involvement, facilities, etc). No surprise during this pandemic that PP schools have done so well. Who had more access to home gyms? Would believe kids in PP Schools. Show me your "true system". I would love to discuss it with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 43 minutes ago, Muda69 said: It does play in the 4A state tournament. They need to learn that and get used to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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