Welcome to the NIHSAA - Northern Indiana High School Athletic Association

[Guest DT]

With Indy metro high school trophy cases bulging with ever more hardware every year, maybe its time for a drastic change

The Big 3 Catholics have combined for nearly 50 state titles.  Little brother Covenent just joined the party and might be a new dynasty in the making.

MIC schools have complete and total control of the big school class.  That will NEVER change given the current state of trends in Indiana.

Perhaps its time for the North to acquiecse to thr reality of Indy dominated high school football in Indiana and form its own association.

The Northern Indiana High School Athletic Association

Why waste valuable time and treasure traveling down to Indy year after year just to be fed as cannon fodder to the Indy behemoths?

The North has great schools and great conferences.  Maybe the time has come to break away and run their own season, and own tournament.  

DAC

Northwest Crossroads

GSSC

NIC

HNAC

Hoosier

North Central

SAC

NLC

Allen County

Midwest

NE8

Northeast Corner

Three Rivers

 

[Whiting89]

No I’d prefer seeded statewide playoffs like Illinois 

plus Indiana being a midsized state makes no sense. I think the only state that has northern and southern is California and that’s like 5 states in 1.

 

[Staxawax]

What happens when Dwenger, Concordia, Luers, Marian, St. Joe and Andrean start dominating the titles?

[Guest DT]

5 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

What happens when Dwenger, Concordia, Luers, Marian, St. Joe and Andrean start dominating the titles?

We will be much more thoughtful with our application of SF/Multiplier, etc and all schools will feel inclusion in the process.  The current IHSAA run system breeds a culture of entitlement and exclusion.  Enough is enough.  

Edited November 30, 2020 by DT

[Staxawax]

You conveniently left out the part that you would be the commissioner of this.

[Guest DT]

6 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

No I’d prefer seeded statewide playoffs like Illinois 

plus Indiana being a midsized state makes no sense. I think the only state that has northern and southern is California and that’s like 5 states in 1.

 

The end result wil be the same.  All the power resides in Indy.  Youre just reshuffeling the deck but the outcome is the same

Just now, Staxawax said:

You conveniently left out the part that you would be the commissioner of this.

Just a special consultant.  

[foxbat]

21 minutes ago, DT said:

 

The Big 3 Catholics have combined for nearly 50 state titles.  Little brother Covenent just joined the party and might be a new dynasty in the making.

 

Interesting line there ... the Big 3 Catholics and little brother Covenant ... except that Covenant's not a Catholic school.  Just curious as to why it wasn't stated the Big PPs and the little brother?  For shock value?  A little hate/envy as @Grandpa B might say?  A little Freudian slip? Or you just really didn't know and lumped them all in together?

[Guest DT]

1 minute ago, foxbat said:

Interesting line there ... the Big 3 Catholics and little brother Covenant ... except that Covenant's not a Catholic school.  Just curious as to why it wasn't stated the Big PPs and the little brother?  For shock value?  A little hate/envy as @Grandpa B might say?  A little Freudian slip? Or you just really didn't know and lumped them all in together?

Im Roman Catholic.  I know the difference my friend.  Covenent has a cozy relationship with its Catholic brothers as they share a conference affiliation.  

 

[foxbat]

1 minute ago, DT said:

Im Roman Catholic.  I know the difference my friend.  Covenent has a cozy relationship with its Catholic brothers as they share a conference affiliation.  

 

There are lots of monsters in the shadows, eh?

[Football50dad]

Few thoughts.

First, just take your ball and go home, huh?

Second, good luck keeping the top coaches. Coaches have competitive drives just like players. They want to play the best competition, so they will long to play the whole state.  This doesn't even address the message you are sending.

 

Lastly, those schools mentioned that will be stronger (Luers, Marian, Concordia, St. Joe's,etc) will be thrilled that they will be treated "fairly".  What happens if Penn or Snider find their previous dominance? Do they get multiplier or just kicked out?

 

 

[Guest DT]

13 minutes ago, Football50dad said:

Few thoughts.

First, just take your ball and go home, huh?  Thats a simpleton response.  I fully expected it.  The PPs have shown zero interest in seeking competitive balance.  Let them fight amongst themselves.  

Second, good luck keeping the top coaches. Coaches have competitive drives just like players. They want to play the best competition, so they will long to play the whole state.  This doesn't even address the message you are sending.

All the top coaches are in Indy already.  Northern staffs are not as driven and not under as much pressure to win.  You dont see them moving around much from job to job to take on new challenges or make more money.  They are a complacent bunch for the most part. 

 

Lastly, those schools mentioned that will be stronger (Luers, Marian, Concordia, St. Joe's,etc) will be thrilled that they will be treated "fairly".  What happens if Penn or Snider find their previous dominance? Do they get multiplier or just kicked out?

Incoherent thought.  Try again.  

 

 

 

[foxbat]

 

5 minutes ago, DT said:

All the top coaches are in Indy already.  Northern staffs are not as driven and not under as much pressure to win.  You dont see them moving around much from job to job to take on new challenges or make more money.  They are a complacent bunch for the most part. 

I find this comment to be fairly condescending and not at all tuned in to the realities of coaching ... especially at small school level.  Very broadbush indeed.  Maybe the whole purpose is to generate clicks, but I think there may be a better way to accomplish that without such a statement.  I've known many coaches and I've yet to find one that doesn't feel the pressure to win even if it doesn't come directly from an AD or a Board of Education or a player's parents.  It's almost always in the coach's DNA at a minimum plus whatever else is piled on.  I've also not known any that are complacent in what they do.  Hamstrung perhaps.  Challenged perhaps.  Constrained perhaps. But never complacent.

[Guest DT]

15 minutes ago, foxbat said:

 

I find this comment to be fairly condescending and not at all tuned in to the realities of coaching ... especially at small school level.  Very broadbush indeed.  Maybe the whole purpose is to generate clicks, but I think there may be a better way to accomplish that without such a statement.  I've known many coaches and I've yet to find one that doesn't feel the pressure to win even if it doesn't come directly from an AD or a Board of Education or a player's parents.  It's almost always in the coach's DNA at a minimum plus whatever else is piled on.  I've also not known any that are complacent in what they do.  Hamstrung perhaps.  Challenged perhaps.  Constrained perhaps. But never complacent.

The intensity level is not what it used to be.  Football has become just another extra curricular activity at many schools around the state where it used to be the focal point of the schools athletic menu.  In the majority of conferences around the state, you will find that football has been marginalized either by low participation, consistently poor performance, high coaching turnover, community and.or administrative apathy, and the growth of non contact sports and girls sports.

The North has also been hit especially hard by the retirements of many long time legendary coaches.  The list is endless.  Many of these coaches have been replaced by very young and inexperienced assistants, leading many to believe that admins are in no hurry to hire big dollar coaches to replace retired legends.

Central Indiana programs are more dialed in to offseason camps, 7 on 7, have better relationships with college recruiters, and in many cases have coaches who are not required to reach in the classrooom 5 days a week.  This is a huge advantage when it comes to program building.

Munster replaced Hall of Fame Coach Leroy Marsh with an inexperienced assistant and the program is dead after two seasons.  Absolutely DOA.  Its a real travesty.  

 

 

1 minute ago, DT said:

The intensity level is not what it used to be.  Football has become just another extra curricular activity at many schools around the state where it used to be the focal point of the schools athletic menu.  In the majority of conferences around the state, you will find that football has been marginalized either by low participation, consistently poor performance, high coaching turnover, community and.or administrative apathy, and the growth of non contact sports and girls sports.

The North has also been hit especially hard by the retirements of many long time legendary coaches.  The list is endless.  Many of these coaches have been replaced by very young and inexperienced assistants, leading many to believe that admins are in no hurry to hire big dollar coaches to replace retired legends.

Central Indiana programs are more dialed in to offseason camps, 7 on 7, have better relationships with college recruiters, and in many cases have coaches who are not required to reach in the classrooom 5 days a week.  This is a huge advantage when it comes to program building.

Munster replaced Hall of Fame Coach Leroy Marsh with an inexperienced assistant and the program is dead after two seasons.  Absolutely DOA.  Its a real travesty.  

Remember a guy named Rippy Morales at Morton?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by DT

[Grandpa B]

6 hours ago, DT said:

 

Munster replaced Hall of Fame Coach Leroy Marsh with an inexperienced assistant and the program is dead after two seasons.  Absolutely DOA.  Its a real travesty.  

 

 

 

Saying an "Inexperienced assistant" replacing a HOF Coach killed a program in two seasons is the real travesty.   In two years he killed the entire grade school, freshmen, and JV PROGRAMS.   You make the same incorrect statement about Marsh replacing Scifres at Roncalli.   If you are not actually part of the program I would suggest you take your ill informed comments elsewhere.  

[Grandpa B]

8 hours ago, Whiting89 said:

No I’d prefer seeded statewide playoffs like Illinois 

plus Indiana being a midsized state makes no sense. I think the only state that has northern and southern is California and that’s like 5 states in 1.

 

I belieive that you would prefer not to have the PP schools in the tournament.  I think you made that perfectly clear in prior posts.  

[DE]

Redistribution of wealth doesn't work, so the next step is secession.  Interesting.

Is the last option, annexation?

[Whiting89]

2 hours ago, Grandpa B said:

I belieive that you would prefer not to have the PP schools in the tournament.  I think you made that perfectly clear in prior posts.  

Yes because I want to see parity but it’s doubtful this will happen. 

[SBFootball1]

9 hours ago, foxbat said:

  9 hours ago, DT said:

All the top coaches are in Indy already.  Northern staffs are not as driven and not under as much pressure to win.  You dont see them moving around much from job to job to take on new challenges or make more money.  They are a complacent bunch for the most part. 

I find this comment to be fairly condescending and not at all tuned in to the realities of coaching ... especially at small school level.  Very broadbush indeed.  Maybe the whole purpose is to generate clicks, but I think there may be a better way to accomplish that without such a statement.  I've known many coaches and I've yet to find one that doesn't feel the pressure to win even if it doesn't come directly from an AD or a Board of Education or a player's parents.  It's almost always in the coach's DNA at a minimum plus whatever else is piled on.  I've also not known any that are complacent in what they do.  Hamstrung perhaps.  Challenged perhaps.  Constrained perhaps. But never complacent.

I think DT is on to something here, it is just hard to hear.  I dont think it is a knock or an accusation that the coaches don't care, but there really isnt the movement you see around the Indy area and jockeying for positions.  Maybe not a complacency, but just resolved to the fact that moving around within the area isnt worthwhile.  

[temptation]

11 hours ago, DT said:

With Indy metro high school trophy cases bulging with ever more hardware every year, maybe its time for a drastic change

The Big 3 Catholics have combined for nearly 50 state titles.  Little brother Covenent just joined the party and might be a new dynasty in the making.

MIC schools have complete and total control of the big school class.  That will NEVER change given the current state of trends in Indiana.

Perhaps its time for the North to acquiecse to thr reality of Indy dominated high school football in Indiana and form its own association.

The Northern Indiana High School Athletic Association

Why waste valuable time and treasure traveling down to Indy year after year just to be fed as cannon fodder to the Indy behemoths?

The North has great schools and great conferences.  Maybe the time has come to break away and run their own season, and own tournament.  

DAC

Northwest Crossroads

GSSC

NIC

HNAC

Hoosier

North Central

SAC

NLC

Allen County

Midwest

NE8

Northeast Corner

Three Rivers

 

Yes it will.  Another poster on here even gave me the odds of 2030 for a non-MIC 6A school to take home the hardware.

[foxbat]

3 minutes ago, SBFootball1 said:

I think DT is on to something here, it is just hard to hear.  I dont think it is a knock or an accusation that the coaches don't care, but there really isnt the movement you see around the Indy area and jockeying for positions.  Maybe not a complacency, but just resolved to the fact that moving around within the area isnt worthwhile.  

There's less risk and real uprooting that's necessary in the Indy area when you move schools.  You can often "make that drive" to make it work.  It's a bit tougher the more spread out you get, so there has to often be "more on the table." 

I don't have an issue with folks having less incentive to move, but let's call it that.  Complacency tends to be a character attack whereas "needs more incentive to uproot" is a different storyline.  Hard to do much with complacency in a coach, but plenty to do with needs more incentive to uproot.  Just like football players.  It's one thing to have a kind who can't make a good tackle because they haven't learned technique ... it's quite another to have a kid who knows the technique, but is a lazy tackler.

[Grandpa B]

20 minutes ago, Whiting89 said:

Yes because I want to see parity but it’s doubtful this will happen. 

Success factor give you parity.    This is what most people that have a "say" in this matter think.  Most of those are at the  IHSAA and School Administrators.   Not sure you will ever get more than 20% of the people in that category to support not having the PP in the tournament.  I would be surprised if it is more than 5% today.  

[jakone]

12 hours ago, Whiting89 said:

No I’d prefer seeded statewide playoffs like Illinois 

plus Indiana being a midsized state makes no sense. I think the only state that has northern and southern is California and that’s like 5 states in 1.

 

How would you have seeded A 3-6 Luers team this year? What criteria would you use to seed?

[BDGiant93]

Nothing's stopping schools from forming their own organization. The IHSAA is an opt-in organization.

[Whiting89]

1 hour ago, jakone said:

How would you have seeded A 3-6 Luers team this year? What criteria would you use to seed?

I think Illinois uses the record of your opponents as qualifying criteria

they can use that and sagarin

Illinois has the issue where Chicago public seeded teams get seeded high but lose 1st couple rounds because they don’t play anyone

 

 

[Robert]

1 hour ago, jakone said:

How would you have seeded A 3-6 Luers team this year? What criteria would you use to seed?

Take 3 knees, stay away from the punted ball and that team may have been the champion in 2A.  They would have been fine seeded anywhere, maybe?