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Ben Davis - Warren Central Programs are at a Crossroads Moment


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16 minutes ago, PhilLee said:

Warren Central's sophomore class is incredibly talented.  Anyone who thinks they aren't going to be back in the mix next year, is sadly mistaken. 

Both BD and WC both have incredibly talented underclassmen.  They’ll both be very good next year.

 

DT knows very little about X’s and O’s and uses these hot takes to keep himself relevant.

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12 hours ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

Both BD and WC both have incredibly talented underclassmen.  They’ll both be very good next year.

 

DT knows very little about X’s and O’s and uses these hot takes to keep himself relevant.

Numbers don't lie.  BD and WC were not competitive (save for 1 half of football) with CG in 2020.  CG will suffer some graduation losses which will certainly have an impact but to pretend that CG does not have "incredibly talented underclassmen" ready to step in is a bit short sighted.

Upon further research, Center Grove's JV defeated BD 34-8 and WC 35-15.

According to MaxPreps, BD returns its starting QB, but loses its leading rusher, only returns 2 of its top 5 WR and only returns 2 of its top 5 tacklers.

MaxPreps shows that WC does return its starting QB/RB but loses its top WR and only returns 2 of its top 5 tacklers.

Taking it a step further, CG's freshmen beat BD 29-0 and WC 38-22.

These "incredibly talented underclassmen" will get another year to grow so we will see but the results on the field (at all three levels) shows that CG also has some INCREDIBLY TALENTED UNDERCLASSMEN.

Its absolutely UNREAL that folks are so quick to dismiss and downplay a program that just ran roughshod through the entire state and established itself as a NATIONAL power.

Edited by temptation
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When you stop to realize that the varsity games were top upperclassmen vs top underclassmen, the JV games were top underclassmen vs bottom underclassmen, and the frosh games were top frosh against what was left down, it is less impressive. 
 

Time will tell. That’s not shade at CG as much as it is an acknowledgment that WC and BD are far from dead. 

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8 minutes ago, The TW said:

When you stop to realize that the varsity games were top upperclassmen vs top underclassmen, the JV games were top underclassmen vs bottom underclassmen, and the frosh games were top frosh against what was left down, it is less impressive. 
 

Time will tell. That’s not shade at CG as much as it is an acknowledgment that WC and BD are far from dead. 

I assume you are considering juniors as upperclassmen, which I could see but in the scope of talking about 2021, they are still returning for CG.

Tayven Jackson, Caden Curry. Daniel Weems (who would have probably started at running back for nearly any other team in Indiana). Mitchell Evans, and James Schott (sorry if I am forgetting others) will once again make CG the most talented team in the state.

Never thought I would see a day when Ben Davis (enrollment over 4500) and Warren (enrollment over 3700) were getting a pass for their "youth."

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It's no doubt this year was CG's turn, but how does Carmel get into that conversation? Especially after losing to BD in the Regional.

2014 & 15 were the last times Carmel swept both WC and BD in the same season. Not exactly dominance. 

Neither have had to play in a sectional with another MIC team. That's 2 weeks of tuneup games. And Carmel getting to go through the north is a huge advantage lately. Switch them with Westfield and they would have been back in the State Championship game. 

Last time WC won a state championships, they just about had to go through the MIC twice. No easy feat.

Good question. Time will tell.

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13 minutes ago, JeffO2 said:

It's no doubt this year was CG's turn, but how does Carmel get into that conversation? Especially after losing to BD in the Regional.

2014 & 15 were the last times Carmel swept both WC and BD in the same season. Not exactly dominance. 

Neither have had to play in a sectional with another MIC team. That's 2 weeks of tuneup games. And Carmel getting to go through the north is a huge advantage lately. Switch them with Westfield and they would have been back in the State Championship game. 

Last time WC won a state championships, they just about had to go through the MIC twice. No easy feat.

Good question. Time will tell.

Funny you bring up Carmel as I was just about to post something about the ‘Hounds.

I know that Ben Davis and Warren Central are the topic of this thread and above I mentioned that they get a pass somehow from folks despite their large enrollments but I also found it interesting that Carmel, a school of 5200+ thought throwing a converted WR in at QB in the regional was their best option...

Mind blowing.

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2 hours ago, JeffO2 said:

It's no doubt this year was CG's turn, but how does Carmel get into that conversation? Especially after losing to BD in the Regional.

2014 & 15 were the last times Carmel swept both WC and BD in the same season. Not exactly dominance. 

Neither have had to play in a sectional with another MIC team. That's 2 weeks of tuneup games. And Carmel getting to go through the north is a huge advantage lately. Switch them with Westfield and they would have been back in the State Championship game. 

Last time WC won a state championships, they just about had to go through the MIC twice. No easy feat.

Good question. Time will tell.

We are on the heels of the big four teams in the MIC winning the last four state titles.  All four are still relevant.  Carmel had a down year by their standards but they won state last year.

It will be interesting as always to see how the teams stack up next year.  CG may never again have the talent it had this year but the proverbial cupboard is full.

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22 hours ago, temptation said:

Numbers don't lie.  BD and WC were not competitive (save for 1 half of football) with CG in 2020.  CG will suffer some graduation losses which will certainly have an impact but to pretend that CG does not have "incredibly talented underclassmen" ready to step in is a bit short sighted.

Upon further research, Center Grove's JV defeated BD 34-8 and WC 35-15.

According to MaxPreps, BD returns its starting QB, but loses its leading rusher, only returns 2 of its top 5 WR and only returns 2 of its top 5 tacklers.

MaxPreps shows that WC does return its starting QB/RB but loses its top WR and only returns 2 of its top 5 tacklers.

Taking it a step further, CG's freshmen beat BD 29-0 and WC 38-22.

These "incredibly talented underclassmen" will get another year to grow so we will see but the results on the field (at all three levels) shows that CG also has some INCREDIBLY TALENTED UNDERCLASSMEN.

Its absolutely UNREAL that folks are so quick to dismiss and downplay a program that just ran roughshod through the entire state and established itself as a NATIONAL power.

Did you see me mention the name Center Grove ANYWHERE in my post?  I said what I said.  BD and WC return talent.  They’ll be in the top of the MIC.  I don’t care about what CG is doing in this post.  I KNOW they have another year of dominance remaining.

 

It’s so cute how you have become a CG fanboy that you mention them even when they aren’t being discussed.  
 

 

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1 hour ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

Did you see me mention the name Center Grove ANYWHERE in my post?  I said what I said.  BD and WC return talent.  They’ll be in the top of the MIC.  I don’t care about what CG is doing in this post.  I KNOW they have another year of dominance remaining.

 

It’s so cute how you have become a CG fanboy that you mention them even when they aren’t being discussed.  
 

 

You have anger problems.  Never knew marching band was your hot button issue.

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3 minutes ago, temptation said:

Should equal greater depth.  

Should but doesn't. There was a time BD just didn't have much size walking the halls. It's weird, but it's the way it was. I remember talking to Mike Kirschner about this when he was HC. He said something to the effect that everyone says, "Well...you have XXXX number of kids, there has to be someone walking the halls..." It doesn't always work that way. I remember he said, "Jon, you're here every day. I've got every big kid I can get on this team." He was right. Sometimes you just end up short at a given position even in a huge school.

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2 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

Should but doesn't. There was a time BD just didn't have much size walking the halls. It's weird, but it's the way it was. I remember talking to Mike Kirschner about this when he was HC. He said something to the effect that everyone says, "Well...you have XXXX number of kids, there has to be someone walking the halls...blah blah." It doesn't always work that way. I remember he said, "Jon, you're here every day. I've got every big kid I can get on this team." He was right. Sometimes you just end up short at a given position even in a huge school.

Also think this is tied to SES.  Participation in athletics is simply not an option for many families who are struggling.  

Based on conversations I have with mega school non-ball sport coaches at high poverty schools, this is their #1 frustration when it comes to perception of their program.

"You have XXXX number of kids, you SHOULD be good every year!"

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Just now, temptation said:

Also think this is tied to SES.  Participation in athletics is simply not an option for many families who are struggling.  

Based on conversations I have with mega school non-ball sport coaches at high poverty schools, this is their #1 frustration when it comes to perception of their program.

"You have XXXX number of kids, you SHOULD be good every year!"

That's accurate, but it also works the other way. Sometimes football is all a kid in a tough situation has, so that's why I hate this "contraction" conversation we have ever so often here is that it leaves out that even those students who play on an 0-10 football team are staying in school and keeping their grades up to play each week. 

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25 minutes ago, BDGiant93 said:

That's accurate, but it also works the other way. Sometimes football is all a kid in a tough situation has, so that's why I hate this "contraction" conversation we have ever so often here is that it leaves out that even those students who play on an 0-10 football team are staying in school and keeping their grades up to play each week. 

Of all the ridiculous hot takes that have been spewed on this forum (and has, honestly, driven more people away than he has drawn in with his "content generation"), the contraction one is by far the dumbest. Most teams aren't going to win state championships, but they do give kids opportunities. And one of the great things about football is there's a spot for virtually everyone and it brings together people from many different backgrounds in pursuit of one common purpose. 

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1 hour ago, temptation said:

You have anger problems.  Never knew marching band was your hot button issue.

No, I have issues with people that think they’re better than others and act as if others are beneath them which you do.  I’ve never even met you, yet I know you’re the biggest jerk I’ve ever known.  I personally don’t care what you think of me, but at least I know my character is good and that I’m involved in all of this for the good of the kids.  You and DT are only concerned with your own egos and are the reasons kids have self esteem issues and don’t try.  It’s because of people such as yourselves that we, as educators, have to constantly focus on other things besides education.  
 

It’s no secret, I don’t like you or DT.  You have the same reputation on the Harrell page too though, and most of the people I have private conversations with on that message board just wish you’d go away, but since you won’t, I’ll tolerate your childish jabs and the fact that the highlight of your day is spending time on a high school football message board attacking others for their comments whenever you disagree with them.  It’s pathetic, but I’ll tolerate the nonsense.

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34 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

Of all the ridiculous hot takes that have been spewed on this forum (and has, honestly, driven more people away than he has drawn in with his "content generation"), the contraction one is by far the dumbest. Most teams aren't going to win state championships, but they do give kids opportunities. And one of the great things about football is there's a spot for virtually everyone and it brings together people from many different backgrounds in pursuit of one common purpose. 

Thank you!  It seems there are two people on this board who have no interest in anything but their own agendas.

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27 minutes ago, HoosierFB_JG said:

No, I have issues with people that think they’re better than others and act as if others are beneath them which you do.  I’ve never even met you, yet I know you’re the biggest jerk I’ve ever known.  I personally don’t care what you think of me, but at least I know my character is good and that I’m involved in all of this for the good of the kids.  You and DT are only concerned with your own egos and are the reasons kids have self esteem issues and don’t try.  It’s because of people such as yourselves that we, as educators, have to constantly focus on other things besides education.  
 

It’s no secret, I don’t like you or DT.  You have the same reputation on the Harrell page too though, and most of the people I have private conversations with on that message board just wish you’d go away, but since you won’t, I’ll tolerate your childish jabs and the fact that the highlight of your day is spending time on a high school football message board attacking others for their comments whenever you disagree with them.  It’s pathetic, but I’ll tolerate the nonsense.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/anger-management/in/carmel

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