Bobref Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 For years, some of the more enlightened members of the GID Community — including the late Tim Adams — have advocated for a qualification format in place of the all in system we’ve had for 30+ years. As the lone holdout for an all in format, Indiana’s all in supporters consistently call for “evidence” that a qualification format is better, and smile smugly when qualification format proponents cannot produce any — simply because no other state has such a format. The fact that Indiana’s tournament is all in, and has been for 30+ years, but no one has seen fit to adopt the “Indiana example,” ought to tell you all you need to know about how other high school football leaders view our format. But now we have the opportunity for some hard “evidence” close to home. Because of the pandemic, this season Ohio went to a shortened regular season, and an all in playoff format. In a normal year, perhaps 25% of Ohio teams make the playoffs. This year everyone did. So here’s the question: Having had a taste of the all in format, will the Ohio powers-that-be recognize it as superior to a qualification format, and make changes to their system? Or will they revert to their seeded qualification format? I think we can agree that Ohio places a different degree of emphasis on football than Indiana. Now that Ohio can make an informed, intelligent choice, let’s see what they do? I’ve been listening carefully for the drumbeat of support from Ohio for an all in format. So far 🦗. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastpacedO Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 19 minutes ago, Bobref said: For years, some of the more enlightened members of the GID Community — including the late Tim Adams — have advocated for a qualification format in place of the all in system we’ve had for 30+ years. As the lone holdout for an all in format, Indiana’s all in supporters consistently call for “evidence” that a qualification format is better, and smile smugly when qualification format proponents cannot produce any — simply because no other state has such a format. The fact that Indiana’s tournament is all in, and has been for 30+ years, but no one has seen fit to adopt the “Indiana example,” ought to tell you all you need to know about how other high school football leaders view our format. But now we have the opportunity for some hard “evidence” close to home. Because of the pandemic, this season Ohio went to a shortened regular season, and an all in playoff format. In a normal year, perhaps 25% of Ohio teams make the playoffs. This year everyone did. So here’s the question: Having had a taste of the all in format, will the Ohio powers-that-be recognize it as superior to a qualification format, and make changes to their system? Or will they revert to their seeded qualification format? I think we can agree that Ohio places a different degree of emphasis on football than Indiana. Now that Ohio can make an informed, intelligent choice, let’s see what they do? I’ve been listening carefully for the drumbeat of support from Ohio for an all in format. So far 🦗. From what I have read they do not like it, but not because of the reason you might think. To start with their regular season was much shorter. The biggest complaint I have seen and spoke to with friends from Ohio was how they did the seeding. They did a vote by coaches to seed each team in each region. Coaches in bottom tier of conference gave unrealistic votes on the seeding of each team. To try and sway which side of the bracket their conference would be in compared to others. Intentionally voting teams like St. Xavier way low. The votes were made public to and everyone could see what they tried to do. That has been the biggest detractor so far. The person I spoke to said he thinks it could work if they used the Harbin points for seeding (still creates something to play for). However they said this was a 1 year thing due to pandemic and it should go back to normal next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boilerfan87 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 It will be interesting to see if anything comes of the experiment. I feel like some other states did this as well. Maybe Iowa? I have a feeling they will return to their original playoff ways once we are back to "normal." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastpacedO Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, boilerfan87 said: It will be interesting to see if anything comes of the experiment. I feel like some other states did this as well. Maybe Iowa? I have a feeling they will return to their original playoff ways once we are back to "normal." I believe Ohio has already stated next year they will return to their regular playoff format. I will ask though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southend Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Experiment sounds like these states had a choice. The new playoff was a result of not being able implement their standard system. This or don’t have a playoff. And with the Ohio all in, it couldn’t have been a well thought out plan. Come up with some ideas and run with it approach. I can’t put much stock in this for any future change in the Indiana playoff format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 48 minutes ago, southend said: And with the Ohio all in, it couldn’t have been a well thought out plan. Come up with some ideas and run with it approach. You mean, when compared to the well thought out unseeded random ping pong ball draw “plan?” 🤣😂😅😄 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 14 minutes ago, Bobref said: You mean, when compared to the well thought out unseeded random ping pong ball draw “plan?” 🤣😂😅😄 Come on @Bobref, you know there's plenty of planning that goes into selecting the vendor for those ping pong balls. People had to be physically restrained during those meetings. 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementbias Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 It's not their tradition, so they will never adopt it unless it is forced upon them. It was good for one of the Ohio local teams. Their only win of the year was in the playoffs. They weren't going to win a game if they only played the conference slate. This team probably had one of it's best years ever in 2007 and missed the playoffs with 2 losses to the 2 top programs from D5/D6 to D6/D7 range. This caused the conference to abandon conference only games. It's sad that a 8-2 or 7-2 team who lost to perennial state champs was left out from a conference that has 138 state championships (now after the football finals) with many from football. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Basementbias said: It's not their tradition, so they will never adopt it unless it is forced upon them. You think that’s the reason they won’t adopt it? It wasn’t Indiana’s tradition either when it was started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHJIrish Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 IMHO, I don't care what Ohio does, but if it ain't broken in Indiana it don't need fixin'!😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southend Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 46 minutes ago, PHJIrish said: IMHO, I don't care what Ohio does, but if it ain't broken in Indiana it don't need fixin'!😉 Wait a minute, this a laboratory experiment! We have to care! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHJIrish Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, southend said: Wait a minute, this a laboratory experiment! We have to care! OK, you can care.😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southend Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Just now, PHJIrish said: OK, you can care.😉 I know one person REALLY cares! So far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 @Bobref all teams make the playoffs in Minnesota- https://www.startribune.com/make-minnesota-high-school-football-teams-earn-spots-in-playoffs/452168163/ -so your premise is not valid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southend Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said: @Bobref all teams make the playoffs in Minnesota- https://www.startribune.com/make-minnesota-high-school-football-teams-earn-spots-in-playoffs/452168163/ -so your premise is not valid. Can’t be so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan32 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 14 hours ago, Bobref said: For years, some of the more enlightened members of the GID Community — including the late Tim Adams — have advocated for a qualification format in place of the all in system we’ve had for 30+ years. As the lone holdout for an all in format, Indiana’s all in supporters consistently call for “evidence” that a qualification format is better, and smile smugly when qualification format proponents cannot produce any — simply because no other state has such a format. The fact that Indiana’s tournament is all in, and has been for 30+ years, but no one has seen fit to adopt the “Indiana example,” ought to tell you all you need to know about how other high school football leaders view our format. But now we have the opportunity for some hard “evidence” close to home. Because of the pandemic, this season Ohio went to a shortened regular season, and an all in playoff format. In a normal year, perhaps 25% of Ohio teams make the playoffs. This year everyone did. So here’s the question: Having had a taste of the all in format, will the Ohio powers-that-be recognize it as superior to a qualification format, and make changes to their system? Or will they revert to their seeded qualification format? I think we can agree that Ohio places a different degree of emphasis on football than Indiana. Now that Ohio can make an informed, intelligent choice, let’s see what they do? I’ve been listening carefully for the drumbeat of support from Ohio for an all in format. So far 🦗. As my grandpa (God rest his soul) would have said, "F@CK OHIO!" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmizers3 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 4 hours ago, PHJIrish said: IMHO, I don't care what Ohio does, but if it ain't broken in Indiana it don't need fixin'!😉 That's the problem, it is broken. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHJIrish Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 15 minutes ago, dmizers3 said: That's the problem, it is broken. Broken is in the eye of the beholder. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 2 hours ago, dmizers3 said: That's the problem, it is broken. Based on what metric? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmizers3 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 5 hours ago, DanteEstonia said: Based on what metric? You don't need any metrics to tell you that a team that went 1-8 shouldn't be playing in any playoffs. If you do I got nothing for you. 7 hours ago, PHJIrish said: Broken is in the eye of the beholder. True but it should be obvious that a system is broken if you see 0-9 or 1-8 teams in the playoffs. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basementbias Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 16 hours ago, Bobref said: You think that’s the reason they won’t adopt it? It wasn’t Indiana’s tradition either when it was started. Yes I do think that is the main reason. Just like Massillon has all those paper titles but 0 since the playoffs. The Tigers don't claim to have 0 titles though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, dmizers3 said: True but it should be obvious that a system is broken if you see 0-9 or 1-8 teams in the playoffs. Indiana has had teams go 0-8 in the regular season and make it to semi-state. Edited December 1, 2020 by DanteEstonia 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmizers3 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 27 minutes ago, DanteEstonia said: Indiana has had teams go 0-8 in the regular season and make it to semi-state. And your point? They most likely played in a dumpster fire of a region to get that far, but regardless, under no circumstances should an 0-8 regular season be rewarded with a playoff berth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, dmizers3 said: They most likely played in a dumpster fire of a region to get that far Don't be so harsh on the Evansville metro area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHJIrish Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 3 hours ago, dmizers3 said: And your point? They most likely played in a dumpster fire of a region to get that far, but regardless, under no circumstances should an 0-8 regular season be rewarded with a playoff berth. Basketball also? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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