What age do you believe students should begin playing tackle football?

[SBFootball1]

I saw story recently about a local Pop Warner team, 8U, winning a national championship.

As much as I love football, so much about this made me cringe:

1- Do 8 year olds need to be playing tackle football? And, forgive me if i am wrong, i just assumed it is full contact since they looked like they were in full pads.

2- Even if 8 year olds are playing full contact, tackle football, do they need to be playing in a "national tournament" or should they be focused on fundamentals.

3- Is this growing in popularity, do we have to worry about the AAU'ing of football?

Maybe I am just becoming a curmudgeon in my old age. I love the positive publicity in South Bend, that is for sure, but I worry about the effects starting football this young will have on our kids. Burn out, fatigue, injury, and loss of interest isnt anything that football needs right now.

[Muda69]

18.  With all the dangers involved, that have been extensively documented,  the decision to play tackle football should be for an adult individual to decide, not when that individual is still a child.

 

 

[SBFootball1]

11 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

18.  With all the dangers involved, that have been extensively documented,  the decision to play tackle football should be for an adult individual to decide, not when that individual is still a child.

 

 

Interesting perspective.

Would you also change the driving age to 18 and not start schooling at all until 18 so the individual can make their choice on that as an adult?

[HHPatriots]

5th grade is when we start.  I know there are some that start much sooner.  I don't think it is necessary.  

I think it may steer more kids away from football than to football if you start in say, 1st grade.  

We play flag through 4th grade and the objective is simply to make it fun so that they will want to play in 5th grade (tackle).

[SBFootball1]

1 minute ago, HHPatriots said:

5th grade is when we start.  I know there are some that start much sooner.  I don't think it is necessary.  

I think it may steer more kids away from football than to football if you start in say, 1st grade.  

We play flag through 4th grade and the objective is simply to make it fun so that they will want to play in 5th grade (tackle).

That is more along the lines of what I am thinking. Introduce them to the game, but keep it fun and safe and make them want to play as they get older.

[Bobref]

20 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

18.  With all the dangers involved, that have been extensively documented,  the decision to play tackle football should be for an adult individual to decide, not when that individual is still a child.

If you agree that part of good parenting is teaching your kids good decision-making skills, then you need to involve them in decision-making long before then. They don’t just wake up on the morning of their 18th birthday, having been dusted overnight by the “good decision-making fairy.”

[vicvinegar]

25 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

18.  With all the dangers involved, that have been extensively documented,  the decision to play tackle football should be for an adult individual to decide, not when that individual is still a child.

 

 

I'd like to say something, but it would get me in trouble. I'll just say, 8 year olds are allowed to make other major decisions in today's society. 

Yes! So many of the guys I played with in HS have had their lives ruined because they played football. Even though the rules and equipment were so much safer back then.

6 minutes ago, HHPatriots said:

5th grade is when we start.  I know there are some that start much sooner.  I don't think it is necessary.  

I think it may steer more kids away from football than to football if you start in say, 1st grade.  

We play flag through 4th grade and the objective is simply to make it fun so that they will want to play in 5th grade (tackle).

I'll agree with this. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by vicvinegar

[Bobref]

3 minutes ago, vicvinegar said:

So many of the guys I played with in HS have had their lives ruined because they played football.

My sarcasm meter is broken? I assume this was not intended as a serious comment.

[Cow Bell]

13 minutes ago, HHPatriots said:

We play flag through 4th grade and the objective is simply to make it fun so that they will want to play in 5th grade (tackle

To me this is the way to do it.

[Foga]

Are we talking 7 on 7 flag or full 11 on 11 flag?  I like the idea of 7 on 7 flag until they reach 5th grade.  Since no one knows what a player will look like when they grow up, everyone has to learn to take a handoff, catch a pass, and throw the ball.  

[vicvinegar]

15 minutes ago, Bobref said:

My sarcasm meter is broken? I assume this was not intended as a serious comment.

Yes, it's sarcasm. I realize there are some risk of long-term health issues at the college and especially at the PRO level. However, I do not know anyone that had health issues later in life because they played HS football. 

Edited December 11, 2020 by vicvinegar

[LaSalle Lions 1976]

24 minutes ago, HHPatriots said:

5th grade is when we start.  I know there are some that start much sooner.  I don't think it is necessary.  

I think it may steer more kids away from football than to football if you start in say, 1st grade.  

We play flag through 4th grade and the objective is simply to make it fun so that they will want to play in 5th grade (tackle).

I like this

Have a question for flag football programs.  How many can be on the field...it is 7on7 or some other number

1 minute ago, Foga said:

Are we talking 7 on 7 flag or full 11 on 11 flag?  I like the idea of 7 on 7 flag until they reach 5th grade.  Since no one knows what a player will look like when they grow up, everyone has to learn to take a handoff, catch a pass, and throw the ball.  

I was thinking the very first experience should be 5 on 5, less variables to teach kids, maybe the next year, go 7 on 7.

All kids will be required to play at least 3 plays ate snapper, quarterback, skilled player.

[JackStraw1]

44 minutes ago, SBFootball1 said:

I saw story recently about a local Pop Warner team, 8U, winning a national championship.

As much as I love football, so much about this made me cringe:

1- Do 8 year olds need to be playing tackle football? And, forgive me if i am wrong, i just assumed it is full contact since they looked like they were in full pads.

2- Even if 8 year olds are playing full contact, tackle football, do they need to be playing in a "national tournament" or should they be focused on fundamentals.

3- Is this growing in popularity, do we have to worry about the AAU'ing of football?

Maybe I am just becoming a curmudgeon in my old age. I love the positive publicity in South Bend, that is for sure, but I worry about the effects starting football this young will have on our kids. Burn out, fatigue, injury, and loss of interest isnt anything that football needs right now.

Indy CYO starts pads in 3rd grade.    But I do think flag up to fourth grade is a great alternative.  From 2009 to 2018, I think there was about a 40% participation drop so Indy CYO went to 7 man, full pads, with a 40 yd field a couple years ago to space the game out and give more kids an opportunity to carry the ball.  This has worked well, but I don't know if its translated to increasing participation.

[PDB26]

You could probably make an argument for tackle starting in 8th or 9th grade if you were looking to push it back. USA Hockey has removed full bodychecking from youth hockey prior to 14U. Body contact and the basic physical elements of the game are still in play at younger ages, and building blocks for full bodychecking are expected to be coached at those levels. However, football is predicated on physical contact in ways that hockey is not.

I accept 5th and 6th grade as fine starting points, although I think the arguments for what is gained by playing tackle ball earlier as opposed to later probably come down to arguing about things like toughness. And the tackling at those ages is usually laughable anyway. Not sure there's a ton of head rattling going on either. 

I think the best questions are: What makes the sport most accessible? What format at which ages allows the greatest number of players to fall in love with the game while still developing them as well rounded players? Does tackle football at earlier ages actually make for better tacklers and players by 9th grade, or is flag or some sort of hybrid football going to teach better body positioning? Is there some sort of hybrid format that allows for better development for players of all body types at different ages? What are the safety issues at different ages and do different formats allow for controls of any safety issues?

I don't anticipate a ton of pro-8U tackle football responses here.

[DE]

Whenever the child's parents/guardians think is best for their child.  Personal responsibility.

I officiate Pop Warner (many times the little guys-sand sometimes girls games).  There are a lot of precautionary rules in place.  Not a lot of "hitting" going on.

[DE]

As a football person my entire life, I didn't start playing football until I was in 5th grade (11 years old).  That was the 1st time I showed any interest.  My parents educated me, helped guide me, and said if you begin it, you will finish it.  That was the fall of 1988 and I have been apart of football every year since (32 years).

[oldtimeqb]

I think HH's youth league doesn't tackle until 5th grade and won't let them throw a forward pass until 7th grade. (I kid, I kid!)

I don't have a problem with 3/4th tackle, but I would rather see a smaller field and 8 man.  Maybe move the sideline to the far hash, and always put the ball on the near hash (Middle of the remaining field.)  There's too many grade school Lombardi's that want to run toss to the wide side to Johnny EarlyBloomer.  Or my personal favorite, a double-reverse with Johnny.  

Watch a 4th grade team break the huddle in the middle and send a receiver to the bottom of the numbers on each side.  And some CB follows him out there.  They're essentially playing with 9 already. 

[DE]

3 hours ago, SBFootball1 said:

I saw story recently about a local Pop Warner team, 8U, winning a national championship.

As much as I love football, so much about this made me cringe:

1- Do 8 year olds need to be playing tackle football? And, forgive me if i am wrong, i just assumed it is full contact since they looked like they were in full pads.

2- Even if 8 year olds are playing full contact, tackle football, do they need to be playing in a "national tournament" or should they be focused on fundamentals.

3- Is this growing in popularity, do we have to worry about the AAU'ing of football?

Maybe I am just becoming a curmudgeon in my old age. I love the positive publicity in South Bend, that is for sure, but I worry about the effects starting football this young will have on our kids. Burn out, fatigue, injury, and loss of interest isnt anything that football needs right now.

I teach in the Kankakee Valley School District and the KV 8U Pop Warner team just played in nationals in Orlando.

Is this the same team you are referencing?

If not, then I wonder how many State "Champs" there really are?

2 hours ago, SBFootball1 said:

That is more along the lines of what I am thinking. Introduce them to the game, but keep it fun and safe and make them want to play as they get older.

I have seen, played in, and officiated flag football games that were WAY more physical than tackle football.

[southend]

3 hours ago, SBFootball1 said:

Interesting perspective.

Would you also change the driving age to 18 and not start schooling at all until 18 so the individual can make their choice on that as an adult?

Not to hijack the thread, but keeping kids safe theme , I absolutely think driving privileges should start at 18 , all over the United States.  15 and 16 year old people are not ready for this responsibility.  The NUMBER ONE killer of teenage people. 
Not even in the same breath of sports safety. 

[HHPatriots]

4 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

I like this

Have a question for flag football programs.  How many can be on the field...it is 7on7 or some other number

I was thinking the very first experience should be 5 on 5, less variables to teach kids, maybe the next year, go 7 on 7.

All kids will be required to play at least 3 plays ate snapper, quarterback, skilled player.

7 kids and they must run outside the tackles, formations don't matter....it is really just backyard football.  Everybody is an eligible receiver.  When I coached flag, I would run a "real" offensive formation.  Often wishbone, because at the time, that was our base offense.  

[HHPatriots]

1 hour ago, oldtimeqb said:

I think HH's youth league doesn't tackle until 5th grade and won't let them throw a forward pass until 7th grade. (I kid, I kid!)

I don't have a problem with 3/4th tackle, but I would rather see a smaller field and 8 man.  Maybe move the sideline to the far hash, and always put the ball on the near hash (Middle of the remaining field.)  There's too many grade school Lombardi's that want to run toss to the wide side to Johnny EarlyBloomer.  Or my personal favorite, a double-reverse with Johnny.  

Watch a 4th grade team break the huddle in the middle and send a receiver to the bottom of the numbers on each side.  And some CB follows him out there.  They're essentially playing with 9 already. 

It is correct that we start tackle in 5th grade.  As for the forward pass....they don't get to learn that until week 5 of their senior season and that is on special occasions.

[foxbat]

I think the key in all of it really needs to be commitment and safety.  I've coached contact youth football here in Indiana for 18 years with grades 3rd - 6th.  If you are doing contact football, technically at any level, half-*ssed, then it's not good for any one.  You can also turn a kid off from the sport if you set them up to get hurt by not teaching them the proper ways to hit, take a hit, block, etc.  The idea is doing a good job teaching them how to do it and instilling their confidence in themselves to do it.  I've seen it done the right way and the wrong way.

With that said, I don't have an issue if folks want to do flag football until later; but it just probably wouldn't be for my kids and for me.  I've had folks that have come out of 1st and 2nd grade flag football programs who told me that they saw more contact and concussions in flag than in the time their kids played football into high school.  Just like contact football, I think flag has to be done right as well.  Some of the leagues are run-and-gun leagues that are all about "pitch-and-catch."  Coaches that do a good job making sure that all the kids can do something in the middle of the action go a long way to getting kids involved.  Also, and this is just something that I think made a world of difference in the games that I've coached, is that our league used varsity high school refs.  Most of the refs that we had were great about not only keeping us coaches honest, but also teaching the kids and the coaches the game.  They also sometimes added a newer ref to their crew on the weekends to pick up some extra reps and experience.

I don't necessarily see it as an either/or kind of decision.  I would HIGHLY suggest that parents go check out the leagues before getting their kids involved.  I've invited folks with kids that are too young to play in the league to come out and watch a couple of games during the season and, if they want, to come watch a couple of practices too.

[foxbat]

1 hour ago, oldtimeqb said:

I think HH's youth league doesn't tackle until 5th grade and won't let them throw a forward pass until 7th grade. (I kid, I kid!)

 

We used to joke that there are way to many things that have to happen for a successful pass to happen at that age and you have better odds of winning the lottery.  Conversely, there are plenty of things that can go wrong.

Same goes for punts.  Every season, I always had a kid on the team that would ask why we don't practice punts during the week.  We'd get to a weekend game, our opponent would punt to us, and our returner would return it for major yardage or a TD.  I'd call the kid who asked me about punting practice and I tell him, "Now you see why we don't practice punting" and we'd all get a kick out of that.  It's a lot easier to laugh about it when it's not your team chasing that punt returner down the sideline. 😀

[Titan32]

Been doing 3rd grade for 20 years and it seems to work pretty well.

[1st_and_10]

We start 2-3rd grade with tackle. No kickoffs (each team starts at their own 40) and punts is a 35 yard walk off by the officials (cant go inside  20).  Really at this age its teaching/coaching the right way how to block/tackle, but if I’m 100% honest they just kind of run into each other and fall down.  We have weight limits to run the ball.  Its getting the kids accustomed to pads/helmet and contact.