What age do you believe students should begin playing tackle football?

[Bonecrusher]

The youth league mine played in was flag for K-1st-2nd, start pads in 3rd.  Junior fb 3rd-4th, senior fb 5th-6th.  There is another league in town, and I believe they were/are the same.

These days, I could almost see waiting until 5th for pads.  Use K thru 4th to teach good technique/fundamentals, then two years in pads before junior high.

Edited December 11, 2020 by Bonecrusher

[Gipper]

Tough Question.  I do know Pop Warner begins up here for the first graders.  But is that too early?  They have all of the armor on running all over the field using is a weapon without necessarily being trained how to hit, etc.  Injuries can definitely result and I know this from what I have witnessed.

[SBFootball1]

49 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Tough Question.  I do know Pop Warner begins up here for the first graders.  But is that too early?  They have all of the armor on running all over the field using is a weapon without necessarily being trained how to hit, etc.  Injuries can definitely result and I know this from what I have witnessed.

This is what worries me about starting too young. I am sure I will get some flak for this, and I am not making a blanket statement about youth coaches, but are there enough good coaches teaching proper fundamentals and safety techniques? It is hard enough to fill high school staffs with people who are willing to put in the time to learn and then teach all of this correctly while still making it enjoyable for the KIDS.  I love getting kids involved in the sport, especially properly.  I worry that having 8 year olds having to travel from South Bend to Orlando to play for a championship gets away from the fundamentals/teaching process and exerts an emphasis on winning way too early. Maybe I am wrong, but I would think youth football programs at that age are our sport's equivalent to t-ball and I don't think we have t-ball tourneys/national championships...at least I hope not!

[Gipper]

Just now, SBFootball1 said:

This is what worries me about starting too young. I am sure I will get some flak for this, and I am not making a blanket statement about youth coaches, but are there enough good coaches teaching proper fundamentals and safety techniques? It is hard enough to fill high school staffs with people who are willing to put in the time to learn and then teach all of this correctly while still making it enjoyable for the KIDS.  I love getting kids involved in the sport, especially properly.  I worry that having 8 year olds having to travel from South Bend to Orlando to play for a championship gets away from the fundamentals/teaching process and exerts an emphasis on winning way too early. Maybe I am wrong, but I would think youth football programs at that age are our sport's equivalent to t-ball and I don't think we have t-ball tourneys/national championships...at least I hope not!

Case in point: when I was helping out some of our second graders, some kid showing off for his dad (another coach) speared another player in the head.  That player never played again. No, he was not paralyzed, but he and his family made the decision to hang it up.  Although I love the game, I think they made the right call.

[Grover]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:12 AM, Foga said:

Are we talking 7 on 7 flag or full 11 on 11 flag?  I like the idea of 7 on 7 flag until they reach 5th grade.  Since no one knows what a player will look like when they grow up, everyone has to learn to take a handoff, catch a pass, and throw the ball.  

Who is learning to block?

[LaSalle Lions 1976]

1 hour ago, SBFootball1 said:

This is what worries me about starting too young. I am sure I will get some flak for this, and I am not making a blanket statement about youth coaches, but are there enough good coaches teaching proper fundamentals and safety techniques? It is hard enough to fill high school staffs with people who are willing to put in the time to learn and then teach all of this correctly while still making it enjoyable for the KIDS.  I love getting kids involved in the sport, especially properly.  I worry that having 8 year olds having to travel from South Bend to Orlando to play for a championship gets away from the fundamentals/teaching process and exerts an emphasis on winning way too early. Maybe I am wrong, but I would think youth football programs at that age are our sport's equivalent to t-ball and I don't think we have t-ball tourneys/national championships...at least I hope not!

I agree 100%.

Kids today have no time just to go out and play without adult control.  I think many of us remember the time where we met at the park, chose up sides and just played ball.  Your technique may have been poor, but you learned how to get along with each other and problem solved issues.

Doing this, I began a love for sports that kept me out of trouble.  I did play organized sports as well, but there I just did what the coach said to do.  I didn't have to think on my own. 

Having kids play unorganized sports gives them independence and sense of accomplishment.

And most of all  NO PARENT INTERFERENCE, except to call them home for dinner.

[oldtimeqb]

1 hour ago, SBFootball1 said:

This is what worries me about starting too young. I am sure I will get some flak for this, and I am not making a blanket statement about youth coaches, but are there enough good coaches teaching proper fundamentals and safety techniques? It is hard enough to fill high school staffs with people who are willing to put in the time to learn and then teach all of this correctly while still making it enjoyable for the KIDS.  I love getting kids involved in the sport, especially properly.  I worry that having 8 year olds having to travel from South Bend to Orlando to play for a championship gets away from the fundamentals/teaching process and exerts an emphasis on winning way too early. Maybe I am wrong, but I would think youth football programs at that age are our sport's equivalent to t-ball and I don't think we have t-ball tourneys/national championships...at least I hope not!

T-Ball. I was approached by another parent when my youngest son was 4, asking if I wanted to join their travel T-Ball team for a weekend tournament in Indy. (In hindsight, it was probably the big place in Wesfield.)  I laughed before I realized he was serious.  Driving from Evansville to Westfield for a 4/5 year old T-ball tournament wasn't my idea of a good time. 

 

[oldtimeqb]

1 hour ago, SBFootball1 said:

This is what worries me about starting too young. I am sure I will get some flak for this, and I am not making a blanket statement about youth coaches, but are there enough good coaches teaching proper fundamentals and safety techniques? It is hard enough to fill high school staffs with people who are willing to put in the time to learn and then teach all of this correctly while still making it enjoyable for the KIDS.  I love getting kids involved in the sport, especially properly.  I worry that having 8 year olds having to travel from South Bend to Orlando to play for a championship gets away from the fundamentals/teaching process and exerts an emphasis on winning way too early. Maybe I am wrong, but I would think youth football programs at that age are our sport's equivalent to t-ball and I don't think we have t-ball tourneys/national championships...at least I hope not!

3 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

T-Ball. I was approached by another parent when my youngest son was 4, asking if I wanted to join their travel T-Ball team for a weekend tournament in Indy. (In hindsight, it was probably the big place in Wesfield.)  I laughed before I realized he was serious.  Driving from Evansville to Westfield for a 4/5 year old T-ball tournament wasn't my idea of a good time. 

 

Hit enter before I was ready (stupid fat thumbs).

Your point is another reason why I think 8-man would be a good starting point for tackle players.  Allows the teams to be smaller, and less bodies to watch for coaches.  I don't know if you have tried to watch 11 players at once, especially 11 nine and ten year olds, it's almost impossible to coach well, IMO.  

[Grover]

At Center Grove our youngest contact league is for 2nd graders but 1st graders are accepted if the parents prefer.  Much of the fears posted above are unwarranted IF the league is properly run.  The coaches, league officials, and referees need to be properly instructed and supervised and the equipment needs to be high quality.  If you have those things in place you should have minimal problems.  You will not have zero injuries.  They happen.

Yes, we should be worried about AAU type football teams and tournaments.  I see rogue teams being formed and seeking players and my biggest concern is who the coaches are and what do they know.  National championships for 8 year-olds is ridiculous.  There is a team forming. now that is talking about playing January tournaments.  That's a horrible idea.  Play football during football season.

I recently saw that our Jr. Trojans were ranked in the top 20 nationally for 11U.  Seriously?  Who does this kind of stuff?  Do they honestly think their rankings are credible?  Usually there are adults trying to profit from over-zealous parents but they've never approached us for anything.

[Whiting89]

Any age is fine it’s just the practice that is over the top. Even in high school there are to many padded practices and tackling in practice. In college they don’t tackle in practice so why does high school?

[Grover]

Well, in youth football because they are still learning how to tackle.  Nothing wrong with the tackling drills as long as they are being taught properly.

[Donnie Baker]

3 or 4 years ode unless you want a bunch of wussies. STATE LAW!

[tango]

6 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

T-Ball. I was approached by another parent when my youngest son was 4, asking if I wanted to join their travel T-Ball team for a weekend tournament in Indy. (In hindsight, it was probably the big place in Wesfield.)  I laughed before I realized he was serious.  Driving from Evansville to Westfield for a 4/5 year old T-ball tournament wasn't my idea of a good time. 

 

That is insane.

[LaSalle Lions 1976]

7 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

T-Ball. I was approached by another parent when my youngest son was 4, asking if I wanted to join their travel T-Ball team for a weekend tournament in Indy. (In hindsight, it was probably the big place in Wesfield.)  I laughed before I realized he was serious.  Driving from Evansville to Westfield for a 4/5 year old T-ball tournament wasn't my idea of a good time. 

 

Bryce Harper did that his entire travel ball career...was a "free agent.  

[DE]

11 hours ago, Grover said:

Who is learning to block?

THIS x’s infinity. 

[The TW]

Most CYO teams are 3rd/4th and 5th/6th. The numbers are huge for 3rd graders and the drop for 4th grade. There is a little attrition heading into 5th grade but a huge drop among 6th graders. 
 

Two reasons:

1. Many of the younger kids are getting pounded by older kids in practice to the point that they lose all interest. The difference between a 3rd grader and 4th grader is typically just experience. But the physical difference between a 5th grader and a 6th grader can be substantial. 
 

2. Travel sports, particularly baseball, gobble kids up by 4th grade with promises of scholarships and contracts. Shockingly, it’s the ones that stick with football that most often play baseball in college. 

[oldtimeqb]

22 minutes ago, The TW said:

Most CYO teams are 3rd/4th and 5th/6th. The numbers are huge for 3rd graders and the drop for 4th grade. There is a little attrition heading into 5th grade but a huge drop among 6th graders. 
 

Two reasons:

1. Many of the younger kids are getting pounded by older kids in practice to the point that they lose all interest. The difference between a 3rd grader and 4th grader is typically just experience. But the physical difference between a 5th grader and a 6th grader can be substantial. 
 

2. Travel sports, particularly baseball, gobble kids up by 4th grade with promises of scholarships and contracts. Shockingly, it’s the ones that stick with football that most often play baseball in college. 

I had heard USA Football had recommended single grade play only. 3rd grade league, 4th grade league, etc.  But that simply isn't feasible for many smaller leagues.  I was trying to find their official document that stated the single league recommendation (as opposed to hearsay from other parents) and found this:

https://fdm.usafootball.com/docs/default-source/default-document-library/fdm-game-progression-brochure.pdf?sfvrsn=f0b0590f_2

They recommend a "rookie tackle" - smaller field, less players.  I had not read this before, but I can say I had many of the same ideas.  

[Guest DT]

This thread reinforces in my mind and should for all of you why the PPs are so good at football.

The uniformity and continuity of CYO football builds football players and position players from a very young age.  Very few public school districts can match the level of coaching and parental involvement CYO kids are getting by the time they reach junior high.

By the time thse kids reach high school, the football "acumen/IQ" of the CYO player is at a level significantly higher than that of the public school boy.  

Freshman CYO boys are learning new schemes and techniques.

Public school kids are learning how to stand in a huddle and get in a 3 pt stance.

 

[southend]

5 hours ago, DT said:

This thread reinforces in my mind and should for all of you why the PPs are so good at football.

The uniformity and continuity of CYO football builds football players and position players from a very young age.  Very few public school districts can match the level of coaching and parental involvement CYO kids are getting by the time they reach junior high.

By the time thse kids reach high school, the football "acumen/IQ" of the CYO player is at a level significantly higher than that of the public school boy.  

Freshman CYO boys are learning new schemes and techniques.

Public school kids are learning how to stand in a huddle and get in a 3 pt stance.

 

I can attest to this as a 7th grader ,At Village Woods ,playing St. Henry’s for the first time. Our schools were 3 blocks from each other. After the game I did know what hit us. Until I learn they had been playing since 5th grade. They all went to Luers after 8th grade. 

[Foga]

On 12/12/2020 at 11:46 AM, Grover said:

Who is learning to block?

I was down in your area, Franklin, when my kids were going through and they just told kids to get in the way or push on another kid.  All the coaches were worried about was how to get the fastest kids to the outside and score.  No Mechanics taught at all.  Hell, we still had kids at the high school level chicken wing blocking. 

[Muda69]

On 12/12/2020 at 11:50 AM, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

I agree 100%.

Kids today have no time just to go out and play without adult control.  I think many of us remember the time where we met at the park, chose up sides and just played ball.  Your technique may have been poor, but you learned how to get along with each other and problem solved issues.

Doing this, I began a love for sports that kept me out of trouble.  I did play organized sports as well, but there I just did what the coach said to do.  I didn't have to think on my own. 

Having kids play unorganized sports gives them independence and sense of accomplishment.

And most of all  NO PARENT INTERFERENCE, except to call them home for dinner.

Rack this post.   I remember as a 17-year old, after my senior high school football "career" was over,  being called up by a buddy on the Saturday after Thanksgiving to play in a pick-up game of football at our high school practice field.  So I said sure, and when I arrived at the field realized we were going to be playing this pick-up game against a group of guys from a rival county high school.  

While we were literally drawing up plays in the dirt these guys were actually running formations & plays from their school playbook.  The game was fun, tough,  rowdy,  we all got filthy dirty, and we laughed our heads off at times.  I don't remember which side won and really don't care.  I remember that pick-up game as vividly as I remember most of the other "real games" during my time in high school.

  

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Muda69

[Grover]

1 hour ago, Foga said:

I was down in your area, Franklin, when my kids were going through and they just told kids to get in the way or push on another kid.  All the coaches were worried about was how to get the fastest kids to the outside and score.  No Mechanics taught at all.  Hell, we still had kids at the high school level chicken wing blocking. 

It is painful to watch.  We have tried everything to get our league to properly instruct blocking.  The biggest hurdles include getting the coaches to care (most coaches are parents of running backs) and getting coaches to admit they don't know how to teach blocking.  The ego is a powerful defense against learning.

[Bobref]

16 minutes ago, Grover said:

It is painful to watch.  We have tried everything to get our league to properly instruct blocking.  The biggest hurdles include getting the coaches to care (most coaches are parents of running backs) and getting coaches to admit they don't know how to teach blocking.  The ego is a powerful defense against learning.

Does your league require youth coaches to undergo some type of training, or obtain some sort of certification beforehand?

[Grover]

8 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Does your league require youth coaches to undergo some type of training, or obtain some sort of certification beforehand?

All coaches (head or assistants) need to be Level One certified from USA Football.  We also have coaching instruction from the varsity staff directly or via our Director of Coaches.  Regarding blocking one of the best things we did was to put on a blocking clinic for the entire league.  Each coach ran a station.  What they didn't realize is that the clinic was aimed more at the coaches than the kids.  It worked well but there was a lot of grumpy coaches who didn't want to do it.

The coaches are also given playbooks and a list of resources for assistance.  All practices are on site and supervised by the Director of Coaches.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Grover

[Bobref]

47 minutes ago, Grover said:

All coaches (head or assistants) need to be Level One certified from USA Football.  We also have coaching instruction from the varsity staff directly or via our Director of Coaches.  Regarding blocking one of the best things we did was to put on a blocking clinic for the entire league.  Each coach ran a station.  What they didn't realize is that the clinic was aimed more at the coaches than the kids.  It worked well but there was a lot of grumpy coaches who didn't want to do it.

The coaches are also given playbooks and a list of resources for assistance.  All practices are on site and supervised by the Director of Coaches.

That’s a template for how to do it. So, your issue isn’t that the coaches aren’t trained in proper technique (and supervised to make sure they employ it in practice). It’s that kids don’t like to block the right way. ‘Twas ever thus.