Jump to content
Head Coach Openings 2024 ×
  • Current Donation Goals

    • Raised $2,716 of $3,600 target

Which Job is better ? Crown Point or Lake Central


Guest DT

Recommended Posts

10 hours ago, DT said:

Lets assume for kicks and giggles that Phil Mason is the coach whom both schools have identified as their #1 target.

Mason's background and accomplishments are well known.

If you are Mason, looking at the last job of your coaching career, which do you pick?  CP or LC?  Lets assume the compensation is the same at both schools.

As someone who knows Mason, I’d be willing to bet money he isn’t leaving Michigan City for either of those jobs. Don’t know about the “cultural fit” problems at CP, but I’ve always been under the impression that he has no interest in coaching LC for various reasons. No clue why he’d want to do that now either, LC’s program is a mess from top to bottom. He’s established himself at City, turned the program around and has laid roots in the pop warner league. With Merrillville and Valpo about to take a step back in the DAC the next couple years, City looks to be the team to beat in the conference for the foreseeable future. Highly doubt Mason leaves, but hey I could be wrong. 

Edited by scarab527
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

 With Merrillville and Valpo about to take a step back in the DAC the next couple years, City looks to be the team to beat in the conference for the foreseeable future.

I am not disagreeing with your statement here, but looking for more insight. What reasons do you believe Merriville and Valparaiso will take a step back over the next few years? Too much talent loss from this season's teams for each and not enough in the pipeline?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

I am not disagreeing with your statement here, but looking for more insight. What reasons do you believe Merriville and Valparaiso will take a step back over the next few years? Too much talent loss from this season's teams for each and not enough in the pipeline?

Bingo. Valpo just came off stacking 3 very good classes, but the next couple of classes have not been as good. They’ve still got some studs (the younger Jones brother, Hayden Vineyard), but the lack of underclassmen talent really hurt them this year, and they had to put everything on the shoulders of their seniors. The Vikings’ regular season unbeaten streak comes to an end next year. Merrillville was bolstered heavily by covid-driven transfers, who are now either graduating or rumored to be transferring back to their previous schools. Like Valpo, the cupboard won’t be completely bare, and there’s talent in the pipeline, but I don’t believe the Pirates will have the level of talent they had this year for awhile. City, on the other hand, returns nearly all of its impact players from a young team and also has some young studs coming through their pipeline. Their outlook the next few seasons is, in my opinion, the brightest in the DAC. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bobref posed it has a hypothetical question from Mason's perspective. I would tend to agree that I don't see Mason leaving MC either but you never know about Mason. Did he move back to Lake County recently? Also, he has shown interest in LC job in the past. I don't see CP pursuing Mason but could be wrong also.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RegionFBFan said:

Good question on Mason wanting to take on a project at this stage of career, possibly not. LC cultural change needed but does administration want it and support it? 

Maybe wrong word used regarding cultural fit at CP, I don't see CP administration and Mason fitting stylistically or philosophically period. I would be shocked on CP move but not LC. Not a knock on either Mason or CP, just not a good fit.

CP is a very buttoned down community.  Mason is a t shirt, sweat shirt kind of guy.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, DT said:

CP is a very buttoned down community.  Mason is a t shirt, sweat shirt kind of guy.  

While I agree with your comment, I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that before coaching at MC, Mason coached nearly a decade at a school where many parents were doctors, lawyers, and other white collar professionals (even though he gave some speeches where he seemed to forget this fact, lol).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, scarab527 said:

As someone who knows Mason, I’d be willing to bet money he isn’t leaving Michigan City for either of those jobs. Don’t know about the “cultural fit” problems at CP, but I’ve always been under the impression that he has no interest in coaching LC for various reasons. No clue why he’d want to do that now either, LC’s program is a mess from top to bottom. He’s established himself at City, turned the program around and has laid roots in the pop warner league. With Merrillville and Valpo about to take a step back in the DAC the next couple years, City looks to be the team to beat in the conference for the foreseeable future. Highly doubt Mason leaves, but hey I could be wrong. 

The Holy Grail of high school coaching in Indiana is the 6A championship trophy.  Mason does not have access in his current position.  Hes always struck me as a career driven guy who measures his success as he steps higher up the ladder.  Only one step left on the rung for him.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bobref said:

And how would you describe the Tri-Town communities that feed Lake Central ... sartorially speaking, of course?

Dyer - blue collar / factory oriented community

Schererville - Hybrid Highland-Griffith community.  White-Blue collar mix.

St John - Wealthy, older, retired, professional  New blood is all upscale professional

This lack of socio economic commonality amongst the student population might help explain the lack of continuity and cultural connection in the hallways.  You could almost say that a caste system exists at LC

Edited by DT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, DT said:

The Holy Grail of high school coaching in Indiana is the 6A championship trophy.  Mason does not have access in his current position.  Hes always struck me as a career driven guy who measures his success as he steps higher up the ladder.  Only one step left on the rung for him.  

I agree with you to an extant, but I just don’t think he views either CP or LC as an opportunity to actually challenge for a 6A title. I also think at this point in his career he just wants to hoist another state trophy, regardless of what class it’s in. Right now, City is probably the best-positioned of any DAC school to compete for a state title in the next few years because of their slot in 5A and the talent they have coming through. Like other posters, I also doubt his desire to take on any sort of rebuild this late in his career. I really think it’d have to take the perfect job for him to leave City, and I don’t think CP or LC are that job. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

I agree with you to an extant, but I just don’t think he views either CP or LC as an opportunity to actually challenge for a 6A title. I also think at this point in his career he just wants to hoist another state trophy, regardless of what class it’s in. Right now, City is probably the best-positioned of any DAC school to compete for a state title in the next few years because of their slot in 5A and the talent they have coming through. Like other posters, I also doubt his desire to take on any sort of rebuild this late in his career. I really think it’d have to take the perfect job for him to leave City, and I don’t think CP or LC are that job. 

Very few coaches have left The Region over the years for higher profile jobs elsewhere, and when they did, things did not work out so well.

Dave Shelbourne left Highland in 1988 for Warren Central and had little success in Indy.  Kirk Kennedy left Lowell for Bloomington South and literally was run out of town.  On the flip side, Craig Buzea has had great success at HF following his run at Portage and MC.  

There was a brief period a few years back when discussed the possibility of Mason going to Indy.  That window of opportunity has likely passed.  I believe he could turn LC into a DAC champion within 5 years.  Doubtful that they would be a factor downstate however.  

I agree with your point about the MC program and the potential for a 5A stste title.  That is real and present, and likely enough motivation to keep Mason's enjines burning strong for the foreseeable future.

Just now, DT said:

Very few coaches have left The Region over the years for higher profile jobs elsewhere, and when they did, things did not work out so well.

Dave Shelbourne left Highland in 1988 for Warren Central and had little success in Indy.  Kirk Kennedy left Lowell for Bloomington South and literally was run out of town.  On the flip side, Craig Buzea has had great success at HF following his run at Portage and MC.  (HF is basically "Region" anyways)

There was a brief period a few years back when discussed the possibility of Mason going to Indy.  That window of opportunity has likely passed.  I believe he could turn LC into a DAC champion within 5 years.  Doubtful that they would be a factor downstate however.  

I agree with your point about the MC program and the potential for a 5A stste title.  That is real and present, and likely enough motivation to keep Mason's enjines burning strong for the foreseeable future.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An intersting difference between LC and CP and the comment about CP being buttoned up. CP is one community with the high school in the core of it's growth plans. They clearly have an image that they want to project to the community (not a bad thing). LC is different in that it is actually 3 different towns with three different community leaders, cultures, plans and priorities. I'm sure LC is in each towns focus area but at varying degrees for each of them. I'm sure this presents a bit of a challenge.

DT's description of each community is pretty accurate.  Dyer does have parts of Briar Ridge which is wealthy. Suffice it to say that LC is much more diverse socioeconomically than CP. CP and St. John are more similar than Dyer and Schererville.

Mason and LC a much better fit than CP and Mason. I still agree with Scarab that it is highly unlikely Mason leaves MC. I'm not sure about the upcoming talent but assume those comments are accurate. I do know that Mason loves being in charge of his program with a lot of degrees of freedom at MC. I'm not sure he would get that at CP or LC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, DE said:

Ahh. Gotcha. I lived in Schererville (just north of LC). Lived in CP too. 
CP was quite expensive. It was convenient to many things but just never could call it home. 

I agree, CP is quite expensive, but many areas in St. John, Schererville, and Dyer are as well.  I just like CP’s feel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, RegionFBFan said:

An intersting difference between LC and CP and the comment about CP being buttoned up. CP is one community with the high school in the core of it's growth plans. They clearly have an image that they want to project to the community (not a bad thing). LC is different in that it is actually 3 different towns with three different community leaders, cultures, plans and priorities. I'm sure LC is in each towns focus area but at varying degrees for each of them. I'm sure this presents a bit of a challenge.

DT's description of each community is pretty accurate.  Dyer does have parts of Briar Ridge which is wealthy. Suffice it to say that LC is much more diverse socioeconomically than CP. CP and St. John are more similar than Dyer and Schererville.

Mason and LC a much better fit than CP and Mason. I still agree with Scarab that it is highly unlikely Mason leaves MC. I'm not sure about the upcoming talent but assume those comments are accurate. I do know that Mason loves being in charge of his program with a lot of degrees of freedom at MC. I'm not sure he would get that at CP or LC.

LC might be willing to cede full control to a new coach if they have confidence he can deliver the desired results.  The last few coaches have been career assistants who had no prior record of success in the HFC position.  

I would also think that LC would like to see a ROI in the money they spent on that fabulous football facility.  The stadium should be a powerful draw for a coach looking to run a big 6A program

6 hours ago, Gipper said:

Back to DT’s very good question, I think Crown Point is the better job.

Why, specifically?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my view, CPs biggest challenge/problem is the lack of elite football players.

If Im not mistaken, CPs last Big Ten player was linemen Kurt Wermers, and that was almost 10 years ago.  CP has elite athletes, but they are not playing football.  They are either playing soccer, baseball or basketball.  

Look at a school like Center Grove, with 2500 students, similar affluent community as CP.  CG has several 300 lb plus linemen, lots of guys in the 6-4 to 6-7 range.  CP has little to none of this.  Why?  Is it diet?  Weight training?  The weather? Crown Point was a bully when I played against them way way back.  They have lost that hard nosed identity.  I can go all the way back to 6th to 8th grade  at Our Lady of Grace in Highland  and playing basketball against St Peter and Paul.  Those kids were big and burly.  They were the toughest kids we played against.  

CP needs a coach who bring that "toughness" back.  A young Russs Radtke type who can work with young kids but not be too tough and run them off.  Almost sounds like Coach Mason.  LOL

Edited by DT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, DT said:

In my view, CPs biggest challenge/problem is the lack of elite football players.

If Im not mistaken, CPs last Big Ten player was linemen Kurt Wermers, and that was almost 10 years ago.  CP has elite athletes, but they are not playing football.  They are either playing soccer, baseball or basketball.  

Look at a school like Center Grove, with 2500 students, similar affluent community as CP.  CG has several 300 lb plus linemen, lots of guys in the 6-4 to 6-7 range.  CP has little to none of this.  Why?  Is it diet?  Weight training?  The weather? Crown Point was a bully when I played against them way way back.  They have lost that hard nosed identity.  I can go all the way back to 6th to 8th grade  at Our Lady of Grace in Highland  and playing basketball against St Peter and Paul.  Those kids were big and burly.  They were the toughest kids we played against.  

CP needs a coach who bring that "toughness" back.  A young Russs Radtke type who can work with young kids but not be too tough and run them off.  Almost sounds like Coach Mason.  LOL

St. Peter and Paul was in Merrillville. 

St. Mary’s is in Crown Point. 

Lake Central’s HFB coaches since they got rid of HOF HFB Coach Elmer Britton. 

Scott Freckelton-career assistant to Coach Britton. Was our DC. 

Bill Melby-former HFB coach at Hammond Gavit

Brett St. Germaine-former HFB Coach at Andrean 

Tony Bartolomeo-career assistant at various schools. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, one question worth asking is how supportive one might expect these schools’ administrations to be of the football program? Not sure what that situation is at LC. But at CP, their long time AD was a head football coach in the Duneland for many years. Until recently, their principal was their former head football coach of 13 yrs. They’re fully committed to supporting the program, as is the community.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Bobref said:

So, one question worth asking is how supportive one might expect these schools’ administrations to be of the football program? Not sure what that situation is at LC. But at CP, their long time AD was a head football coach in the Duneland for many years. Until recently, their principal was their former head football coach of 13 yrs. They’re fully committed to supporting the program, as is the community.

I think they are supportive at the local level, not the state level.

There is a big difference between the two.

Some schools dream of winning conference championships  (Crown Point)

Others dream of winning state championships (Lowell)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, DT said:

The Holy Grail of high school coaching in Indiana is the 6A championship trophy.  Mason does not have access in his current position.  Hes always struck me as a career driven guy who measures his success as he steps higher up the ladder.  Only one step left on the rung for him.  

The 6A title goes through Indy and the suburbs for the foreseeable future.  The best 6A program offered by The Region will continue to be fodder at the semi-state level.

At least at the 5A level, you are not stuck with an enormous enrollment disadvantage and only one bully (Cathedral) in the way most years.  

Don’t know the first thing about Coach Mason or region football specifically just placing myself in his shoes.

If titles and late season success are the goals, he’s right where he should be at Michigan City.

Edited by temptation
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...