In, oh, Ill, mi, ky high school fb

[Purdue Pete]

how would u rank the overall play in the Surrounding states?  I think I’d go Oh, in, mi, ill, ky.  
 

Maybe mi > in

but why?  Why is oh Hs football superior?   Can we ever surpass them?
 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Purdue Pete

[scarab527]

9 minutes ago, Purdue Pete said:

how would u rank the overall play in the Surrounding states?  I think I’d go Oh, in, mi, ill, ky.  
 

Maybe mi > in

but why?  Why is oh Hs football superior?   Can we ever surpass them?
 

 

No way Illinois is behind IN or MI. I’d go OH, IL, MI, IN, KY

Edited January 10, 2021 by scarab527

[Purdue Pete]

24 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

No way Illinois is behind IN or MI. I’d go OH, IL, MI, IN, KY

Idk...I see 2 from in on top 25, 1 from ky.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/highschool/2020/12/22/high-school-football-rankings-national-super-25-dec-22-2020/4004902001/

Just now, Purdue Pete said:

Idk...I see 2 from in on top 25, 1 from ky.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/highschool/2020/12/22/high-school-football-rankings-national-super-25-dec-22-2020/4004902001/

I know top 25 doesn’t represent the “state of the state” ... just a data point 

[scarab527]

2 minutes ago, Purdue Pete said:

Idk...I see 2 from in on top 25, 1 from ky.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/highschool/2020/12/22/high-school-football-rankings-national-super-25-dec-22-2020/4004902001/

I know top 25 doesn’t represent the “state of the state” ... just a data point 

I put IN over KY in my rankings. The hard one to judge, like you alluded to, is whether IN or MI is better. I think top-down MI is probably better, but the top teams in IN might be better than the top teams in MI. Obviously hard to judge this year though. 

[Gipper]

1 hour ago, Purdue Pete said:

Idk...I see 2 from in on top 25, 1 from ky.  

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/highschool/2020/12/22/high-school-football-rankings-national-super-25-dec-22-2020/4004902001/

I know top 25 doesn’t represent the “state of the state” ... just a data point 

That’s what I have as well.

[Impartial_Observer]

Perhaps IN, IL, MI, OH, and KY should be contracted into one state, lol

[crimsonace1]

3 hours ago, Purdue Pete said:

but why?  Why is oh Hs football superior?   Can we ever surpass them?
 

 

Ohio has twice the population of Indiana and three major cities (Cleveland, Columbus, Cincinnati) and a number of good-sized smaller cities like Toledo, Akron, Dayton and Youngstown. In the Midwest, football tends to thrive in large cities in larger industrial cities as they had the critical mass of people to have teams and programs. Most schools in Indiana didn't have football until the late 1960s and 1970s after consolidations. 

Michigan only has one major city (Detroit), but a number of smaller cities like Grand Rapids, Flint, Ann Arbor, Saginaw, Kalamazoo, Lansing ... 

[Staxawax]

5 minutes ago, crimsonace1 said:

Most schools in Indiana didn't have football until the late 1960s and 1970s after consolidations. 

Not sure I would agree with this. Do you have data to support?

 

Certainly population plays an important part. I would think baring outside factors (such as Ohio’s traditions) it would pretty much go by population order. Anyway you size it that puts ill, Mich, Ohio top 3 and Ind 4th. All indications are Ohio is #1, then Mich/ill (pick one). I think we all agree Ohio is 1st and Ky 5th. Except probably DT and Muda.🥴

[Purdue Pete]

41 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

Not sure I would agree with this. Do you have data to support?

 

Certainly population plays an important part. I would think baring outside factors (such as Ohio’s traditions) it would pretty much go by population order. Anyway you size it that puts ill, Mich, Ohio top 3 and Ind 4th. All indications are Ohio is #1, then Mich/ill (pick one). I think we all agree Ohio is 1st and Ky 5th. Except probably DT and Muda.🥴

Population

1. ill

2. ohio

3. michigan

all over 10m

4. in 7 m

5.  Ky 5 m

Ballpark

 

 

 

[psaboy]

I would say; OH, IL, IN, MI and KY

I think Indy area teams would outplay the Detroit/Ann Arbor teams, Fort Wayne and Grand Rapids probably a toss up, South Bend and Da Region against the K-zoo/Lansing area. 

[Guest DT]

2 hours ago, Staxawax said:

Not sure I would agree with this. Do you have data to support?

 

Certainly population plays an important part. I would think baring outside factors (such as Ohio’s traditions) it would pretty much go by population order. Anyway you size it that puts ill, Mich, Ohio top 3 and Ind 4th. All indications are Ohio is #1, then Mich/ill (pick one). I think we all agree Ohio is 1st and Ky 5th. Except probably DT and Muda.🥴

Why do you have IN over KY?

[Gipper]

2 hours ago, Purdue Pete said:

Population

1. ill

2. ohio

3. michigan

all over 10m

4. in 7 m

5.  Ky 5 m

Ballpark

 

 

 

Great point, but if you take Chicago out of the equation, Illinois isn’t that much of a force.  Champaign, East St. Louis, Moline, Peoria, and Rockford do not make that much noise.

[Gipper]

3 hours ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Perhaps IN, IL, MI, OH, and KY should be contracted into one state, lol

Like we would take Kentucky.  The only possible merger that makes us Utah and Idaho: Utaho....

Illinois would be too suing itself.

[scarab527]

At Andrean in 2014, we went up to Grand Rapids to play Catholic Central. We won 28-0. Sharing just for context, obviously that one matchup from years ago means little, but I don’t remember many IN v MI matchups in recent years.

Edited January 11, 2021 by scarab527

[Gipper]

43 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Great point, but if you take Chicago out of the equation, Illinois isn’t that much of a force.  Champaign, East St. Louis, Moline, Peoria, and Rockford do not make that much noise.

Then again, you do have the Teutopolis Wooden Shoes...

[whiteshoes]

I have an idea.   Why don't we settle it on the field at Lucas Oil Stadium.    Take a top team from each state.  All of the aforementioned states can travel here (no 300 mile issue) and what a great weekend it would make for fans not to mention the economic impact for Indy.

[btownqbcoach1]

10 hours ago, DT said:

Why do you have IN over KY?

Because IN HS football is better to significantly better than KYs. Especially if you want to talk the Top 20 teams in both states. 

[Boilernation]

10 hours ago, Gipper said:

Great point, but if you take Chicago out of the equation, Illinois isn’t that much of a force.  Champaign, East St. Louis, Moline, Peoria, and Rockford do not make that much noise.

And if you talk to the average Chicagoland HS football fan they'll act like they're watching Texas HS football up there. The population of Chicagoland alone is going to create some really good teams in conferences like the Chicago Catholic League, East Suburban Catholic (think they recently merged with the CCL), DuPage Valley, West Suburban, and the conference that Lincoln Way East, Bolingbrook, Homewood-Flossmoor are in. But, the elite teams in that area are no better than the elite teams in Indiana and Ohio. Unfortunately, they don't leave the Chicago area much for marquee OOC play. In 2019 Loyola played Cleveland St. Ignatius in Michigan City and lost 27-10. Loyola wen 8-4 that year and lost in the 3rd round of the playoffs. Iggy was 5-5.

[btownqbcoach1]

33 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

And if you talk to the average Chicagoland HS football fan they'll act like they're watching Texas HS football up there. The population of Chicagoland alone is going to create some really good teams in conferences like the Chicago Catholic League, East Suburban Catholic (think they recently merged with the CCL), DuPage Valley, West Suburban, and the conference that Lincoln Way East, Bolingbrook, Homewood-Flossmoor are in. But, the elite teams in that area are no better than the elite teams in Indiana and Ohio. Unfortunately, they don't leave the Chicago area much for marquee OOC play. In 2019 Loyola played Cleveland St. Ignatius in Michigan City and lost 27-10. Loyola wen 8-4 that year and lost in the 3rd round of the playoffs. Iggy was 5-5.

I feel that CG, WC, BD, and Carmel can compete with essentially anyone's "best 4" year in and year out. Maybe that's bias. 

[Muda69]

I would put Indiana in the lower half of that list of state, most definitely.  And Illinois does have the best high school football field in the nation,  Fleur-de-lis field in Greenfield:

[Gipper]

1 hour ago, Boilernation said:

And if you talk to the average Chicagoland HS football fan they'll act like they're watching Texas HS football up there. The population of Chicagoland alone is going to create some really good teams in conferences like the Chicago Catholic League, East Suburban Catholic (think they recently merged with the CCL), DuPage Valley, West Suburban, and the conference that Lincoln Way East, Bolingbrook, Homewood-Flossmoor are in. But, the elite teams in that area are no better than the elite teams in Indiana and Ohio. Unfortunately, they don't leave the Chicago area much for marquee OOC play. In 2019 Loyola played Cleveland St. Ignatius in Michigan City and lost 27-10. Loyola wen 8-4 that year and lost in the 3rd round of the playoffs. Iggy was 5-5.

New Trier’s conference on the North Shore is also very good.

[Boilernation]

17 minutes ago, Gipper said:

New Trier’s conference on the North Shore is also very good.

Yep, and one of those perennial powers, Maine South in Park Ridge, got taken to the woodshed by Warren Central a decade or so ago. New Trier would be an absolute powerhouse in most sports if they didn't lose so much talent to Loyola Acedemy. Hockey is also huge up there. You can see homemade mini ice rinks in a lot of North Shore backyards. I have a friend who played hockey at Cathedral and he said playing New Trier was like playing a minor league youth team.

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by Boilernation

[oldtimeqb]

As far as IN vs KY, I went back to check out the Evansville schools since 2007.  That was the beginning of the "Border Bowl" which featured 4 interstate matchups in week 2.  It was a 4 year series and then another 2 year series took its place in 2018 and 2019 before the SIAC became a closed conference.  

Here are the respective schools vs Kentucky schools since 2007.

Ev. Central 10-0 (includes wins over Owensboro, Daviess Co, Louisville Holy Cross, and North Oldham)

Reitz 16-5 (includes 9-2 vs Henderson Co but also wins over Owensboro, Paducah Tilghman, and Louisville Central)

Mater Dei 5-0 (several wins over Owensboro Catholic)

Memorial 5-3 (wins over O. Cath, Apollo, and Daviess Co.)

Bosse 3-1 

The two schools with losing records:

Ev. Harrison 2-4 

Ev. North  2-11 (includes 1-10 against Henderson County)

Except for Harrison, who has been down for awhile and North's matchup against Henderson County - which occurred prior to Coach Paridaen's arrival, the Evansville schools have all fared well against Kentucky competition.  There are a lot of good teams - Male, Trinity, Covington Catholic, etc. that SIAC schools haven't faced, but I think an average IN school could beat an average KY school IMO

[temptation]

Its really as simple as population in most cases.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Not saying the top teams in Indiana CAN'T compete with those from other states, but the depth in those states probably wears Indiana out.  

Just look at the number of next player levels on the recruiting sites.  

Now, if you want to talk PER CAPITA?  Indiana holds its own.

[Gipper]

55 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

Yep, and one of those perennial powers, Maine South in Park Ridge, got taken to the woodshed by Warren Central a decade or so ago. New Trier would be an absolute powerhouse in most sports if they didn't lose so much talent to Loyola Acedemy. Hockey is also huge up there. You can see homemade mini ice rinks in a lot of North Shore backyards. I have a friend who played hockey at Cathedral and he said playing New Trier was like playing a minor league youth team.

 

Whole new set of rules up there,