Jump to content
Head Coach Openings 2024 ×
  • Current Donation Goals

    • Raised $2,716 of $3,600 target

In, oh, Ill, mi, ky high school fb


Recommended Posts

I can speak a little to this topic having coached a decade in both Indiana and Michigan.  I like many of you may have played a game or two against teams from other states and watched film as well.  

Here are a few quick observations.

Ohio:  I believe is above the rest of the group by a sizeable margin.  The difference in Ohio is the depth in my opinion, there are more teams of high caliber at each level, it's not top heavy or bottom heavy.

Kentucky:  I believe is the bottom of this list.  Population, and lack of a mega city anywhere play into this.  Still many very good programs in Kentucky, but depth is lacking in all classes. 

Illinois:  the largest state by population, but also the most unique with the only true mega city among these states.  Illinois boasts very few second tier sized cities lumping most of the larger schools, and most smaller private schools in one geographical region.  Illinois has quality teams in each class, and posses a few Mega schools, but many of the mega schools (for whatever reason) are actually sub par compared to those a step down in size.  The sheer size of the state gives it quite a bit of depth, but also quite a few poor programs.  

Michigan:  Michigan is unique because it posses no mega schools in the whole state, and only a handful in the 2,000's.  For a state nearly twice the population of Indiana, Indiana's top 10 schools would all be top 2 or 3 in Michigan in size.  What Michigan does have however are about twice as many football playing schools as Indiana.  Michigan has 2 eight man divisions, and 3 11 man divisions all within the size range of Indiana's 1A.  That's a lot of small school football.  Michigan has a lot of depth in programs but the top really lacks "big programs" the way Illinois, Ohio, Indiana do.  There are a lot of "kinda big schools"  the smallest school in Michgan's biggest class is only roughly 500 kids bigger than the biggest school in the 3rd biggest class.  Or another way of saying Michigan has about 200 schools that would be really big 4A, or 5A schools in Indiana.....that and in the small classes is where Michigan's strength lies.  

Indiana:  Indiana's real weakness is depth in classes, being a state with half the population of Michigan, Illinois, and Ohio that makes sense.  Where Indiana's strength is at the top division with quite a good number of Mega schools, and the top end schools in each class tend to be quite comparable to other states.  As we've seen the Indiana mega schools (and private school powers) can play with any midwestern states, it's after you get out of the top 5-10 in each class does the gap to the neighboring states start to win out.   It's more a population thing than anything.   

If I was ranking I'd say 

1. Ohio

2. Illinois/Michigan

2a. Indiana

5. Kentucky

I know that's cheating but it really depends if you value depth over top end results.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Gipper said:

Great point, but if you take Chicago out of the equation, Illinois isn’t that much of a force.  Champaign, East St. Louis, Moline, Peoria, and Rockford do not make that much noise.

If you take Indy out of Indiana, Indiana's not that much of a force either.

48 minutes ago, temptation said:

Its really as simple as population in most cases.  Nothing more, nothing less.  Not saying the top teams in Indiana CAN'T compete with those from other states, but the depth in those states probably wears Indiana out.  

Just look at the number of next player levels on the recruiting sites.  

Now, if you want to talk PER CAPITA?  Indiana holds its own.

Actually, per capita, Indiana ends up on the bottom rung and, surprisingly, KY jumps up.  Based on Blue Chip prospects in 2020, the rankings would be:

  • Kentucky
  • Michigan
  • Ohio
  • Illinois
  • Indiana

And for general reference, Texas would be about twice the ranking of KY and about, three times the ranking of Ohio, and twelve times the ranking of Indiana.  For Florida, it's even a bigger gap as Florida tops Texas per capita.  Florida would be three times KY, five times Ohio, and over eighteen times IN. 

https://www.bannersociety.com/2020/2/4/21111828/college-football-recruits-by-state

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Muda69 said:

I would put Indiana in the lower half of that list of state, most definitely.  And Illinois does have the best high school football field in the nation,  Fleur-de-lis field in Greenfield:

25196207956_a6079005b5.jpg

f5XAdIIJBHRs2cgb75UB_Fvzyyss9trC_vMlfSaH

Cool. If you go to Google Street level view (215 Mulberry St, Greenfield, IL, 62044) you can see the team on the field. 

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.34239,-90.2060685,3a,15y,352.94h,86.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIS4ygqQ9tJ6jdlwczA657A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, scarab527 said:

At Andrean in 2014, we went up to Grand Rapids to play Catholic Central. We won 28-0. Sharing just for context, obviously that one matchup from years ago means little, but I don’t remember many IN v MI matchups in recent years.

To put that game in context however, that was a REALLY good Andrean team who beat West Lafayette by 50 that year, and that GRCC team went 6-4 and was a first round playoff exit.  So that West Lafaytte semifinal team probably losses to that first round playoff losing GRCC team by a couple scores.  (GRCC that year would've been a 4A school compared to WL and Andrean being 3A though)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, CoachGallogly said:

To put that game in context however, that was a REALLY good Andrean team who beat West Lafayette by 50 that year, and that GRCC team went 6-4 and was a first round playoff exit.  So that West Lafaytte semifinal team probably losses to that first round playoff losing GRCC team by a couple scores.  (GRCC that year would've been a 4A school compared to WL and Andrean being 3A though)

Wrong year.  Andrean beat WL 52-7 in '13.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, foxbat said:

If you take Indy out of Indiana, Indiana's not that much of a force either.

Actually, per capita, Indiana ends up on the bottom rung and, surprisingly, KY jumps up.  Based on Blue Chip prospects in 2020, the rankings would be:

  • Kentucky
  • Michigan
  • Ohio
  • Illinois
  • Indiana

And for general reference, Texas would be about twice the ranking of KY and about, three times the ranking of Ohio, and twelve times the ranking of Indiana.  For Florida, it's even a bigger gap as Florida tops Texas per capita.  Florida would be three times KY, five times Ohio, and over eighteen times IN. 

https://www.bannersociety.com/2020/2/4/21111828/college-football-recruits-by-state

 

 

 

 

Good call.  Thanks for the correction. 

Not 100 percent accurate but if you take every 2021 football recruit from the five states mentioned listed on 247's state list (those with a 2 star ranking or higher so not necessarily "blue chip" recruits), and figure in the total population it looks like this.

1.  Ohio

2.  Michigan

3.  Kentucky

4.  Illinois

5.  Indiana

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, temptation said:

Good call.  Thanks for the correction. 

Not 100 percent accurate but if you take every 2021 football recruit from the five states mentioned listed on 247's state list (those with a 2 star ranking or higher so not necessarily "blue chip" recruits), and figure in the total population it looks like this.

1.  Ohio

2.  Michigan

3.  Kentucky

4.  Illinois

5.  Indiana

And how about if, instead of using total population, you use “# of kids playing high school football” in those respective states? Just curious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, CoachGallogly said:

To put that game in context however, that was a REALLY good Andrean team who beat West Lafayette by 50 that year, and that GRCC team went 6-4 and was a first round playoff exit.  So that West Lafaytte semifinal team probably losses to that first round playoff losing GRCC team by a couple scores.  (GRCC that year would've been a 4A school compared to WL and Andrean being 3A though)

Yeah, as was mentioned, that was the year after that team. How did GRCC do that year?

Edited by scarab527
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, scarab527 said:

Yeah, as was mentioned, that was the year after that team. How did GRCC do that year?

I was correct on my info for GRCC  they went 6-4, and lost first round.  That Andrean team was the year after the state championship team, but still went 14-1 and was runner up.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, CoachGallogly said:

I was correct on my info for GRCC  they went 6-4, and lost first round.  That Andrean team was the year after the state championship team, but still went 14-1 and was runner up.  

I gotcha, and yeah, I remember, I was on the team haha. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Staxawax said:

Not sure I would agree with this. Do you have data to support?

Certainly population plays an important part. I would think baring outside factors (such as Ohio’s traditions) it would pretty much go by population order. Anyway you size it that puts ill, Mich, Ohio top 3 and Ind 4th. All indications are Ohio is #1, then Mich/ill (pick one). I think we all agree Ohio is 1st and Ky 5th. Except probably DT and Muda.🥴

This was in response to my comment that most schools in IN didn't have football until the 1960s. 

I need to dig up hard data and can look it up in the old IHSAA handbooks that are now freely available, but prior to the consolidation wave of the 1960s/70s, it was rare to see a football team outside of a county seat or larger community. Many of the county schools - remember, there were more than 700 schools in Indiana in the 1950s - simply did not have enough people to field a football team. I do have a list of enrollments from 1954, and about half the schools have fewer than 100 students in grades 9-12, which would mean fewer than 50 boys. A large number had two boys teams - cross country in the fall and basketball in the spring. A few of the larger "small" schools might also have a baseball team (and it wasn't uncommon for baseball season to be in the fall). 

It wasn't until many of those county schools began consolidating that they began to offer a full menu of sports. For example, the IHSAA didn't begin sponsoring a baseball tournament until 1967. There weren't enough schools playing to justify one prior to that. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...