Jump to content

Crown Point could become the Northern version of Center Grove


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, temptation said:

Population trends/demographics are shifting and the talent is much more spread out in central Indiana.  Not just at the 6A level.  I have been hearing about Carroll and Homestead "gearing up" and gaining momentum for years now but they have fallen flat on their face when given the opportunity.  Snider will be able to compete in 5A but no one in central Indiana views them as a threat in 6A.  Maybe they get (or already have) a good group coming down the pipeline but they'll never be a consistent threat when you look at the enrollment in 6A combined with their SES.

Tee off on me.  I can handle it.

Homestead had some teams in 97', 98, & 02' (under the leadership of Cavacini & Wood) that were among the state's Top 4. They may have even done more in '19 had their "Trevor Lawrence" not been sidelined for the playoffs. Carroll has never been a contender, so it's kind of hard to say they "fell flat on their face." There is some truth to your comment with regard to Homestead though. They seem to have peeked as a good football program, but can't seem to get into the "great" category. Let's just say there is potential in those communities. It's up to Zolman and Dinan to get them to the next level. 

Even when Hawley and Isaacs were leading the way, Snider was only putting a state champion (big school division) caliber football team on the field once every four years.............mainly due to enrollment disadvantages. As their enrollment slides, coupled with the growth of Homestead and Carroll, it's going to be hard to hit that four year mark. Let's not write Snider off yet though, because four times in the last decade, they put together teams that could have challenged anyone (let's say Top 5 regardless of class)..........12', 15, 17', and maybe 16'. The 21' team might be worth paying attention to. 

"Tee off on me".........................it was a pretty good post, I don't see that happening. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 75
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Lots of similarities between the two communities. Both very affluent. Community life centered around both high schools. Top notch facilities. Hyper intense local support Total

I'd argue that Marion County schools ARE staying the same if not declining (I know that some of the folks on this board will rush to their defense and pretend they are outraged by this statement).  I'

VHS Boys basketball would like to discuss your assumption. By all means, keep going Mr. P.

Posted Images

4 minutes ago, BTF said:

Homestead had some teams in 97', 98, & 02' (under the leadership of Cavacini & Wood) that were among the state's Top 4. They may have even done more in '19 had their "Trevor Lawrence" not been sidelined for the playoffs. Carroll has never been a contender, so it's kind of hard to say they "fell flat on their face." There is some truth to your comment with regard to Homestead though. They seem to have peeked as a good football program, but can't seem to get into the "great" category. Let's just say there is potential in those communities. It's up to Zolman and Dinan to get them to the next level. 

Even when Hawley and Isaacs were leading the way, Snider was only putting a state champion (big school division) caliber football team on the field once every four years.............mainly due to enrollment disadvantages. As their enrollment slides, coupled with the growth of Homestead and Carroll, it's going to be hard to hit that four year mark. Let's not write Snider off yet though, because four times in the last decade, they put together teams that could have challenged anyone (let's say Top 5 regardless of class)..........12', 15, 17', and maybe 16'. The 21' team might be worth paying attention to. 

"Tee off on me".........................it was a pretty good post, I don't see that happening. 

 

The MIC slappies will feast on me.  They must be busy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, BTF said:

Homestead had some teams in 97', 98, & 02' (under the leadership of Cavacini & Wood) that were among the state's Top 4. They may have even done more in '19 had their "Trevor Lawrence" not been sidelined for the playoffs. Carroll has never been a contender, so it's kind of hard to say they "fell flat on their face." There is some truth to your comment with regard to Homestead though. They seem to have peeked as a good football program, but can't seem to get into the "great" category. Let's just say there is potential in those communities. It's up to Zolman and Dinan to get them to the next level. 

Even when Hawley and Isaacs were leading the way, Snider was only putting a state champion (big school division) caliber football team on the field once every four years.............mainly due to enrollment disadvantages. As their enrollment slides, coupled with the growth of Homestead and Carroll, it's going to be hard to hit that four year mark. Let's not write Snider off yet though, because four times in the last decade, they put together teams that could have challenged anyone (let's say Top 5 regardless of class)..........12', 15, 17', and maybe 16'. The 21' team might be worth paying attention to. 

"Tee off on me".........................it was a pretty good post, I don't see that happening. 

 

Don't forget '93.  They traveled to us (Lake Central for Semi State-which makes them Final Four/Top 4 then too).

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, DE said:

Don't forget '93.  They traveled to us (Lake Central for Semi State-which makes them Final Four/Top 4 then too).

Making it to semi-state doesn't necessarily equate to Top 4 in my opinion. Mainly because in any given year 4 or 5 teams from the Indy area would qualify for the Northern semi-state. But that's just the last two decades. Back in 93' though? You may have a point. Although they defeated the defending state champs in sectionals that year, they never really stuck out to me as a "great" team. Very good for sure. And it was that team, to their credit, that put Homestead (the farming community) on the map. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/21/2021 at 12:03 PM, temptation said:

Not from the area, but doesn't Crown Point have a damn fine wrestling program or am I mistaken?  Where is the disconnect between wrestling and football?

The connection between wrestling and football is one that has always confused me.

Some top football schools in NW Indiana: Andrean, Valparaiso, Morton .......are not high ranked wrestling schools..

I cant tell you why except that maybe its simple minded of us to tie wrestling success to football success 

 

Crown Point has an elite wrestling program......with Chesteron and Merrillville..the best in this area..

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/21/2021 at 1:13 PM, DT said:

Its called having a state championship mentality.  

Kids at BD/WC/CA and CG dream of state championships and D1 scholarships

Kids at Crown Point dream of beating Lowell and Merrillville and wining a sectional title and going to Western Michigan.

Everything MUST elevate for a school like CP to achieve beyond the local level.

Nothing should be off the table, including a money making rivalry game like CP-Lowell.

 

 

This is where you and I disagree strongly, DT.

I think its fine for CP kids to dream of beating Lowell and Merrillville, winning the sectional and going to Western Michigan.  This isnt the NFL.

For those who dont know, Merrillville, Lake Central and Crown Point (total enrollment of 8,000) all sit in a 10-mile circle in South Lake County. Andrean is also there. 

The idea that an imaginary coach could get the majority of the best players in that area is a fantasy .......

The goal of high school programs in all sports should be to win the sectional.......  There is no need to win the state title to have a successful program.

To win the sectional and send a lot of kids to college is what I would want from Merrillville, Lake Central and Crown Point

On 1/21/2021 at 1:08 PM, DT said:

The Valpo feeder does not let these kids slip thru the cracks.  They capture them as 7 year olds and develop them until they reach high school age.  

There is no Andrean next to Valparaisao

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/21/2021 at 3:51 PM, DACNUT said:

Crown Point has always been tough, physical, but why are we shooting for them, like Lake Central, to take on challenges with the MIC, when they have demonstrated they can't consistently be 1-2 in the DAC. Would anyone who knows the DAC say that Crown Point is even top 3 team in the conference? in the last 3-5 years. They just graduated a 3 year starter at QB and were mediocre at best.

Top teams in the DAC have done miserable against HCC competition and has been a push with the Summit, minus Valpo beating Dwenger. DAC schools tried to play Southwest Suburban Conference (large school conference across the border) schools recently and went 0-3, so for right now, get better playing Penn, Elkhart, and Warsaw before thinking about MIC schools.

No one has ever consistently dominated the Duneland Athletic Conference (DAC). It is unlikely to ever happen unless the enrollments change....

 

Your goal is to win your sectional...In the last five years in 6A Sectional 1, ..CP has 3..Merruillville has the other 2..

For the record, Valpo's beaten Penn 3 years in a row ..and Michigan City beat Warsaw by 20 last year.

I just dont think there is a need for teams to win state to validate their quality as a program

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/21/2021 at 1:13 PM, DT said:

Its called having a state championship mentality.  

Kids at BD/WC/CA and CG dream of state championships and D1 scholarships

Kids at Crown Point dream of beating Lowell and Merrlllville and wining a sectional title and going to Western Michigan.

Everything MUST elevate for a school like CP to achieve beyond the local level.

Nothing should be off the table, including a money making rivalry game like CP-Lowell.

 

 

You suggest that a Division I scholarship to Western Michigan is somehow a yellow brick road to mediocrity...... Folks in Kalamazoo would be miffed with you, DT

 

Who benefits if the local high school wins state as opposed to just winning the sectional.?

Who benefits if CP cancels their game with Lowell to play a powerful Warren Central team (as Merrillville did in the last decade). 

In your opinion, Why do you have a football program.?

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/21/2021 at 12:28 PM, vito said:

Beyond the fact it's one of Indiana's oldest rivalries (some say the oldest), you are overlooking a very important fact as to why the CP-Lowell rivalry will remain:   Economics! Lowell fans travel better than any other team in the Region.

Plus, the kids are just getting back to school, it's week one of the HS season, the CP kids love to dress up as farmers to tweak the Lowell kids, etc. The stands are PACKED.  You need to lighten up old man and realize competition isn't everything!  If you weren't such a curmudgeon I'd invite you to the game at the Inferno next year as a side trip to visit your family.  It's a top 10 Indiana HS Friday night atmosphere IMO. 

 

Tell 'em Vito

    Lowell-CP is always going to be played.  Warm summer night....week one..

And you are so right. The CP kids painted freckles on their faces, wore overalls and kerchiefs and carried ears of corn to the game......To make fun of Lowell as if there's no farms at the south end of Crown Point !  So funny.

I guess the school board got a complaint a couple of years ago and they asked the kids to stop it.

But CP-Lowell...for the 'Old Leather Helmet'....you dont mess with that game.

CP kids dressing like Lowell - 2014.jpg

Jake Slager (79).JPG

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

You suggest that a Division I scholarship to Western Michigan is somehow a yellow brick road to mediocrity...... Folks in Kalamazoo would be miffed with you, DT

 

Who benefits if the local high school wins state as opposed to just winning the sectional.?

Who benefits if CP cancels their game with Lowell to play a powerful Warren Central team (as Merrillville did in the last decade). 

In your opinion, Why do you have a football program.?

My high school buddy Kevin Boling went to Western Michigan  Good school.  Played under Elliot Uzelac.  

When I refer to a "championship mentality." I can think of only a few Region schools who possess that trait.

Hobart

Lowell

Andrean

Valpo-Merrillville

These schools have championship level football ingrained in their DNA.  Their goals go beyond success at the local level.

The purpose of this entire thread centers on the possibility that CP could become a member of that elite group.   UIm hopeful that they will because it will elevate football in NWI across all levels.

5 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Tell 'em Vito

    Lowell-CP is always going to be played.  Warm summer night....week one..

And you are so right. The CP kids painted freckles on their faces, wore overalls and kerchiefs and carried ears of corn to the game......To make fun of Lowell as if there's no farms at the south end of Crown Point !  So funny.

I guess the school board got a complaint a couple of years ago and they asked the kids to stop it.

But CP-Lowell...for the 'Old Leather Helmet'....you dont mess with that game.

CP kids dressing like Lowell - 2014.jpg

Jake Slager (79).JPG

Interesting how the CP kids are mocking their Lowell counteparts and the Lowell lineman is holding the rivalry game trophy.

LOL

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DT said:

My high school buddy Kevin Boling went to Western Michigan  Good school.  Played under Elliot Uzelac.  

When I refer to a "championship mentality." I can think of only a few Region schools who possess that trait.

Hobart

Lowell

Andrean

Valpo-Merrillville

These schools have championship level football ingrained in their DNA.  Their goals go beyond success at the local level.

The purpose of this entire thread centers on the possibility that CP could become a member of that elite group.   UIm hopeful that they will because it will elevate football in NWI across all levels.

Interesting how the CP kids are mocking their Lowell counteparts and the Lowell lineman is holding the rivalry game trophy.

LOL

 

The championship mentality you site is interesting.   I know you know that a state title is a lot more realisitic goal in 4A than it is in 6A

But you suggest that teams that dont win state dont really want to, are athletically inferior or are mentally weak..   I dont know.

I think multiple sectionals (Lowell won 5 in a row a few years back) is more important to a program than one state run...more boys got that trophy...more kids watch the winning.    The question still stands. Would you trade one state title run for 5 consecutive sectionals.

 

 

Those two photos (above) are from different years but you are right, Lowell has won their fair share of games from CP. That's why its a great matchup.  It doesnt mean CP is bad. It means Lowell is good.

A rivalry.   If you were there, you'd be painting your face, wearing those overalls and shucking that corn.....you know you would.

Jordan Jusevitch (6) and Mitch Wildman (24) 2.jpg

Edited by oldunclemark
spelling
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

The championship mentality you site is interesting.   I know you know that a state title is a lot more realisitic goal in 4A than it is in 6A

But you suggest that teams that dont win state dont really want to, are athletically inferior or are mentally weak..   I dont know.

I think multiple sectionals (Lowell won 5 in a row a few years back) is more important to a program than one state run...more boys got that trophy...more kids watch the winning.    The question still stands. Would you trade one state title run for 5 consecutive sectionals.

 

 

Those two photos (above) are from different years but you are right, Lowell has won their fair share of games from CP. That's why its a great matchup.  It doesnt mean CP is bad. It means Lowell is good.

A rivalry.   If you were there, you'd be painting your face, wearing those overalls and shucking that corn.....you know you would.

Jordan Jusevitch (6) and Mitch Wildman (24) 2.jpg

I played in a great rivalry - Highland vs Munster in the late 70s.  It was the biggest game in the Region back then, unless Merrillville was playing a big game that night.  

I do believe this "championship mentality" does exist.  It mnakes no sense for kids at Highland, Munster, KV, Gavit, Clark, ECC, Hammond, Noll, Chesterton, Portage, LC, CP, Lake Station, RF, Calumet, BG, Whiting, etc etc etc to be running around talking about winning state championships during the offseason.  Those schools have not been in the running.  They dont have the mentality or the resources to compete at the highest level.

There is nothing wrong with that.  Setting a goal to beat Hobart _0-18 lifetime) , win the conference championship and win a sectional would be huge for Highland.  

Hobart, Andrean an Lowell natutrally think bigger because tghey have been to the dance many times.  Valpo and Merrillville are livig on past glory but never give up the hope that they could someday break thru.

Crown Point has not had a champuionship mentality.

I believe the building blocks are being put into place to establish that mentality.  It will not develop over night.  It will take multiple DAC titles, dominance over Valpo and MV, a few semi state runs and steady development of D1 players.  This is how the central Indiana powers do it.  This is how Center Grove does it.  

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, DT said:

I played in a great rivalry - Highland vs Munster in the late 70s.  It was the biggest game in the Region back then, unless Merrillville was playing a big game that night.  

I do believe this "championship mentality" does exist.  It mnakes no sense for kids at Highland, Munster, KV, Gavit, Clark, ECC, Hammond, Noll, Chesterton, Portage, LC, CP, Lake Station, RF, Calumet, BG, Whiting, etc etc etc to be running around talking about winning state championships during the offseason.  Those schools have not been in the running.  They dont have the mentality or the resources to compete at the highest level.

There is nothing wrong with that.  Setting a goal to beat Hobart _0-18 lifetime) , win the conference championship and win a sectional would be huge for Highland.  

Hobart, Andrean an Lowell natutrally think bigger because tghey have been to the dance many times.  Valpo and Merrillville are livig on past glory but never give up the hope that they could someday break thru.

Crown Point has not had a champuionship mentality.

I believe the building blocks are being put into place to establish that mentality.  It will not develop over night.  It will take multiple DAC titles, dominance over Valpo and MV, a few semi state runs and steady development of D1 players.  This is how the central Indiana powers do it.  This is how Center Grove does it.  

 

CP's never going to dominate Merrillville and Valparaiso. Those are football powers. The Bulldogs beat Merrillville for sectional titles in 2016, 2017 and 2018 but they certainly didnt dominate them.

I just dont think there's any comparison between Crown Point and suburban Indianapolis.  

And my larger point is that when the season begins, all teams in all sports wat to win the sectional. More realistic for some than for others but realistic for all. You win your conference or your sectional most every year (and send some kids to college at ANY level) and you have a 100% success program.

You do not need to win state for your program to be great.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

CP's never going to dominate Merrillville and Valparaiso. Those are football powers. The Bulldogs beat Merrillville for sectional titles in 2016, 2017 and 2018 but they certainly didnt dominate them.

I just dont think there's any comparison between Crown Point and suburban Indianapolis.  

And my larger point is that when the season begins, all teams in all sports wat to win the sectional. More realistic for some than for others but realistic for all. You win your conference or your sectional most every year (and send some kids to college at ANY level) and you have a 100% success program.

You do not need to win state for your program to be great.

 

Again, we are talking about elevating the Crown Point football program.  The new staff will not be satisfied sith an occasional DAC title and a sectional or even a regional.  They will come out full guns blazing and start acting like a mega school with 3000 students.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DT said:

Again, we are talking about elevating the Crown Point football program.  The new staff will not be satisfied sith an occasional DAC title and a sectional or even a regional.  They will come out full guns blazing and start acting like a mega school with 3000 students.  

What about Tampa bay quieting the roar at Green Bay? Defense wins championships. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, DT said:

Again, we are talking about elevating the Crown Point football program.  The new staff will not be satisfied sith an occasional DAC title and a sectional or even a regional.  They will come out full guns blazing and start acting like a mega school with 3000 students.  

I'm assuming the new staff must be made up of only two.....a Master & an apprentice.

DARTH MAUL AND DARTH SIDIOUS | Star wars original art, Star wars pictures,  Star wars art

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes...."

Obi-Wan Kenobi

 

/nerdrant/ off🤓

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, DT said:

What is Crown Points minority enrollment percentage as compared to Center Grove?

Crown Point - 76.6% White:  : https://inview.doe.in.gov/schools/1046603901/population

Center Grove- 84.1% White: https://inview.doe.in.gov/schools/1042053437/population

The free/reduced lunches and textbook numbers for both schools are very close, 19.4% for CP and 16.3% for CG.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Muda69 said:

Crown Point - 76.6% White:  : https://inview.doe.in.gov/schools/1046603901/population

Center Grove- 84.1% White: https://inview.doe.in.gov/schools/1042053437/population

The free/reduced lunches and textbook numbers for both schools are very close, 19.4% for CP and 16.3% for CG.

 

That minority representation number bodes well for CP.  They will need black athletes to compete with the size and speed they will encounter as they move deeper into the tournament

The Bulldogs have played rival Merrillville very close over thew past several years.  They've encounter elite speed at the local level.   Downstate is another story

1 minute ago, DT said:

That minority representation number bodes well for CP.  They will need black athletes to compete with the size and speed they will encounter as they move deeper into the tournament

The Bulldogs have played rival Merrillville very close over thew past several years.  They've encounter elite speed at the local level.   Downstate is another story

I thought CP was over 90% white.  The community demographics are in flux.  

  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, DT said:

What is Crown Points minority enrollment percentage as compared to Center Grove?

Why does this matter?

1 hour ago, DT said:

That minority representation number bodes well for CP.  They will need black athletes to compete with the size and speed they will encounter as they move deeper into the tournament

The Bulldogs have played rival Merrillville very close over thew past several years.  They've encounter elite speed at the local level.   Downstate is another story

I thought CP was over 90% white.  The community demographics are in flux.  

Unreal, even for you. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, DE said:

Serious?

 

 

10 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said:

Trend very lightly 

Noted

Edited by BTF
correction
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...