Muda69 Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/14/indiana-general-assembly-lawmaker-wants-civics-test-graduation/2570275002/ Quote For years, the refrain coming from teachers, parents and just about everyone else in the education world has been "less testing." That's easier said than done, but the Indiana State Board of Education adopted new high school graduation requirements last year to do just that. A proposal pending at the Statehouse, though, would add a new test to those requirements. Senate Bill 132 would require students to pass the same United States civics test issued to new citizens. It quizzes them on basic knowledge of U.S. government and history, like the first president and the branches of government. While the bill's proponents argue that it will help address a woeful lack of basic civics knowledge in the U.S. — pointing to popular late-night comic skits showing "man on the street" interviews of people flubbing basic questions and surveys of college students unable to name the vice president — critics say it's unnecessary testing of material that students are already being taught. ... Sen. Dennis Kruse, R-Auburn, argued during a meeting of the Senate education committee last week that the test wouldn't be that burdensome. Kruse said it takes most people less than 30 minutes to complete the test, which students could start taking in the eighth grade, and the average person passes it by their third attempt. "We have a deficiency in government and civics knowledge in America today," he said, "and I think it's getting worse." Among those in support of Kruse's bill: a college professor, several of the state's leading conservative lobbying groups and veterans. Nearly every statewide education association has opposed the bill, arguing that nearly all of the questions on the test are addressed through Indiana's K-12 academic standards and that high schools are in the midst of adjusting to drastic changes to graduation requirements. The state overhauled its high school graduation standards last year, adding new academic and extracurricular requirements while looking for ways to reduce testing. In adopting the new standards, the State Board of Education moved away from requiring students to pass an exam for graduation, instead favoring completion of a college- or career-oriented pathway of courses and activities. "The intent is laudable," said John Elcesser, executive director of the Indiana Non-Public Education Association. "I'm not sure this is the best vehicle to accomplish it." .... Another laughable bill proposed by Mr. Kruse. He usually pulls this at least once a session. But that begs the question, why do the individuals graduating from today's government schools seem to have less basic knowledge of U.S. government and history than those who take the United States civics test issued to new citizens? Why are government schools failing in this regard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Unfortunately a myriad of laughable legislation, not the least of which the governor campaigning for hate crime legislation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 37 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: Unfortunately a myriad of laughable legislation, not the least of which the governor campaigning for hate crime legislation. Agreed. Not needed. There are already laws on the books, a "hate crime" designation is just feel good claptrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 15 hours ago, Muda69 said: But that begs the question, why do the individuals graduating from today's government schools seem to have less basic knowledge of U.S. government and history than those who take the United States civics test issued to new citizens? Why are government schools failing in this regard? Bad curriculum and biased teachers, perhaps? Although your stories of Mr. Beal indicate that the problem is a very old one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 8 hours ago, DanteEstonia said: Bad curriculum and biased teachers, perhaps? Although your stories of Mr. Beal indicate that the problem is a very old one. Surely a bad curriculum and biased teachers can't happen in government schools with union teachers. All they care about is the very best for the children, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/16/2019 at 4:41 AM, Muda69 said: Surely a bad curriculum and biased teachers can't happen in government schools with union teachers. Everywhere I’ve worked, management chose the curriculum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Judging by how bad everyone in Indiana knows government, it would probably be best if some sort of change was done. When I went to BNL, government was a half-year course. Is that still the case statewide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 8 hours ago, DanteEstonia said: Judging by how bad everyone in Indiana knows government, it would probably be best if some sort of change was done. When I went to BNL, government was a half-year course. Is that still the case statewide? My government class in the 1980's was all year, and required for graduation. 11 hours ago, DanteEstonia said: Everywhere I’ve worked, management chose the curriculum. By "management" you means the State government, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 42 minutes ago, Muda69 said: By "management" you means the State government, correct? Principal and/or district office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 13 hours ago, DanteEstonia said: Judging by how bad everyone in Indiana knows government, it would probably be best if some sort of change was done. When I went to BNL, government was a half-year course. Is that still the case statewide? I had a full year, and it was required for graduation. Unfortunately since it was after advanced weights and before lunch, I typically slept through most of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 14 hours ago, DanteEstonia said: Judging by how bad everyone in Indiana knows government, it would probably be best if some sort of change was done. When I went to BNL, government was a half-year course. Is that still the case statewide? Government is one semester, Economics is one semester. Same as it's been since the early 70's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 45 minutes ago, gonzoron said: Government is one semester, Economics is one semester. Same as it's been since the early 70's. We had a year of both back in the early 80's at Seymour. As I recall Guvment was mandatory. You had our option of Econ, Sociology, or Psychology. History was also a year long deal as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 22 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: We had a year of both back in the early 80's at Seymour. I would have slept through that too. I went to sleep in Econ after the teaching part of the class was over and we had "study time". Had to rest up for my 3-11 full time janitor gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nowlin Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 check out new law starting next year with incoming Freshman, but schools can opt in now; I know we did: Graduation Pathways: I like it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 31 minutes ago, Coach Nowlin said: check out new law starting next year with incoming Freshman, but schools can opt in now; I know we did: Graduation Pathways: I like it https://www.doe.in.gov/sites/default/files/student-assistance/grad-reqs-2019-2022-cohorts-final.pdf Oh, boy. Muda in 5, 4, 3, 2, ............................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 On 1/15/2019 at 7:54 AM, Muda69 said: https://www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/14/indiana-general-assembly-lawmaker-wants-civics-test-graduation/2570275002/ Another laughable bill proposed by Mr. Kruse. He usually pulls this at least once a session. But that begs the question, why do the individuals graduating from today's government schools seem to have less basic knowledge of U.S. government and history than those who take the United States civics test issued to new citizens? Why are government schools failing in this regard? Two different pools of folks with two very different driving forces. For those taking the citizen test, there's a lot riding on it from their perspective. It might be a different comparative result if citizenship wasn't a birthright guarantee. If all people born in the US had temporary status until they graduate from high school and then they had to take the new citizen civics test to be granted permanent US citizenship, you'd probably see those numbers be closer in line to rates of non-citizens seeking US citizenship. For most natural-born citizens at high school age, citizenship is a given and government class is just that ... just another class. On 1/18/2019 at 12:36 PM, gonzoron said: Government is one semester, Economics is one semester. Same as it's been since the early 70's. Back in the day, early 80s in Texas, we had a trimester setup, so we ended up with two trimesters of government and one trimester of econ in the senior year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Coach Nowlin said: check out new law starting next year with incoming Freshman, but schools can opt in now; I know we did: Graduation Pathways: I like it Talk to the special ed teachers in your district. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteEstonia Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 How does Indiana’s GQE compare to the ASVAB? Nevada requires the ASVAB for graduation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Nowlin Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 ASVAB will be part of the new pathways in Indiana 4 hours ago, Irishman said: Talk to the special ed teachers in your district. Volunteer hours count towards a pathway, is that not attainable ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, Coach Nowlin said: ASVAB will be part of the new pathways in Indiana Volunteer hours count towards a pathway, is that not attainable ? It is. But the pathways and changes in classifying special ed students is forcing more certifcate kids into core 40 classes as well as standardized testing for school grades and our evals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishman Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 From a sped teacher in our building Basic skills juniors and seniors now have to take ISTEP. They are only in elective classes yet have to take the English LA and Math portion of the ISTEP even though they are enrolled in functional skills math and English. Let’s remember these are the kids that since they entered elementary school, we knew they would be counted as failures against our graduation rates, by law. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaSalle Lions 1976 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 As a life skills teacher, we have some too. the IAM test only takes 1% of the students. We have about 2% so half have to take ISTEP. Go figure 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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