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Geez, I started this thread as “Long Gone”, as in 4 of 6 schools no longer exist.

He’s not as old as me, but I’m much better looking. 

Don’t discount Kevin Vanderbush’s impact on not only the Football program but all programs. 

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1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said:

I do, yes. 

... and they also packed their schedule with clods during the qualifier era. Dullaghan was smart to do it. I'd have done the same. 

I would not say they "packed their schedule" with clods. Part of the point system was strength of schedule. It was tougher to qualify in 3A, because you could not really play up. You had to either go undefeated, or maybe lose 1 game a year to qualify for the playoffs. Their out of conference schedule still had them playing teams like Warren Central, North Central, and Chatard; all solid teams back then. 

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1 hour ago, BDGiant93 said:

🤣 Laughable. But ok.

 

1 hour ago, Tanka Jahari said:

I've learned much from this discussion, but I still have some questions. Where's the best place to get a screw in Carmel now?

Louie's Bakery in Noblesville. Ask for a chocolate eclair.

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4 hours ago, BDGiant93 said:

Ok, we get it. You think Dick Dullaghan was a product of where he coached. I'm sure that's why he earned those college coaching jobs with Jim Young at Purdue and at Army.

Ben Davis' best year prior to his arrival was an 11-1 run to the Final Four in 1977 and a 7-0-1 campaign in 1950. From 1937-1983, BD had 11 winning seasons...total. The Giants, as a program, didn't go over .500 until 1997. 

But, yes...it was all enrollment. 

Anyway, my original point as to why Carmel made the playoffs was not just because they were a wealthy suburb but because they had a great football coach has been made. 

Don’t discount Kevin Vanderbush’s impact on not only the Football program but all programs. 

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1 hour ago, Irishman said:

Part of the point system was strength of schedule. It was tougher to qualify in 3A, because you could not really play up.

... and there were certain 2A coaches who were smart and played up, and I mean Jerry Brewer of course. 

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4 hours ago, DanteEstonia said:

I do, yes. 

... and they also packed their schedule with clods during the qualifier era. Dullaghan was smart to do it. I'd have done the same. 

I have had the great fortune of coaching against and working for Coach "D" at his Camps.  The man is a wealth of knowledge and is a great motivator.  He also has a great knack for handling personalities and making them all work together. He is a true leader.  Coach "D" was also the first guy to have in school weight classes.  It was because of him, that everybody else started getting them. He also started using Camps to improve his players in an era when summers were not open.  Anyone who does not think Coach "D" would have not been successful wherever he coached just doesn't understand what he has done for the game in our state.  The man is a legend and arguably the the catalyst behind the improvement of football in the whole state.  

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1 hour ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Don’t discount Kevin Vanderbush’s impact on not only the Football program but all programs. 

I would never ever discount Kevin. There's a reason why he's a Hall of Famer. He changed the way schools think about weight training. Coach Vanderbush came in with Coach D.

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24 minutes ago, Coach P said:

I have had the great fortune of coaching against and working for Coach "D" at his Camps.  The man is a wealth of knowledge and is a great motivator.  He also has a great knack for handling personalities and making them all work together. He is a true leader.  Coach "D" was also the first guy to have in school weight classes.  It was because of him, that everybody else started getting them. He also started using Camps to improve his players in an era when summers were not open.  Anyone who does not think Coach "D" would have not been successful wherever he coached just doesn't understand what he has done for the game in our state.  The man is a legend and arguably the the catalyst behind the improvement of football in the whole state.  

As I said, light years ahead of the game.  Thank you for high lighting all of his accomplishments.

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Picking up on Irishman's comment, I grew up in the NLC.  Warsaw (3A) could have gone 10-0 but playing all 2A schools kept them from ever getting to the playoffs in that old system.  When they did try to play a 3A school it seemed like it was FW Snider or Penn and that never went well for them

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4 hours ago, Irishman said:

I would not say they "packed their schedule" with clods. Part of the point system was strength of schedule. It was tougher to qualify in 3A, because you could not really play up. You had to either go undefeated, or maybe lose 1 game a year to qualify for the playoffs. Their out of conference schedule still had them playing teams like Warren Central, North Central, and Chatard; all solid teams back then. 

Which is exactly what happened in 1976. Carmel was state runner up in 1975 and Mark Herrmann returned for his senior season with a pre-season #1 ranking. He was forced out opening night vs North Central with a sprained ankle. Carmel lost the game. They finished 9-1 and missed the playoffs, even though most considered them the best team.

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5 hours ago, Irishman said:

I would not say they "packed their schedule" with clods. Part of the point system was strength of schedule. It was tougher to qualify in 3A, because you could not really play up. You had to either go undefeated, or maybe lose 1 game a year to qualify for the playoffs. Their out of conference schedule still had them playing teams like Warren Central, North Central, and Chatard; all solid teams back then. 

That being said-

Year Champion (Record)
1971 Kokomo Haworth (3-0)
1972 Muncie North (3-0)
1973 Muncie North (3-0)
1974 Muncie North (3-1) & Muncie South (3-1)
1975 Kokomo Haworth (4-0)
1976 Carmel (5-0)
1977 Carmel (5-0)
1978 Carmel (5-0)
1979 Carmel (4-1) & Huntington North (4-1)
1980 Carmel (5-0)
1981 Carmel (5-0)
1982 Carmel (5-0)
1983 Carmel (5-0)
1984 Carmel (4-0)
1985 Carmel (5-0)
1986 Carmel (5-0)
1987 Noblesville (5-0)
1988 Huntington North (5-0)
1989 Carmel (5-0)
1990 Carmel (5-0)
1991 Carmel (5-0)
1992 Carmel (4-1), Connersville (4-1), Huntington North (4-1) & Muncie South (4-1)
1993 Carmel (5-0)
1994 Carmel (5-0)
1995 Carmel (5-0)
1996 Carmel (5-0)
1997 Noblesville (5-0)

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3 minutes ago, DE said:

I wonder if Dante has any plans to  bring his talents back to Indiana.  Maybe take over a BNL program???

I get by DEs confused.  Was he the one not hired by KV?

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9 minutes ago, Robert said:

I get by DEs confused.  Was he the one not hired by KV?

Is that English?

I work at KV.  So yes, I was hired.  

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1 minute ago, DE said:

Is that English?

I work at KV.  So yes, I was hired.  

Looks like a typo, so yes it was English with a typo.  I get my DEs confused.  So neither of you were hired as head coach at KV.  Got it.  

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1 hour ago, DanteEstonia said:

That being said-

Year Champion (Record)
1971 Kokomo Haworth (3-0)
1972 Muncie North (3-0)
1973 Muncie North (3-0)
1974 Muncie North (3-1) & Muncie South (3-1)
1975 Kokomo Haworth (4-0)
1976 Carmel (5-0)
1977 Carmel (5-0)
1978 Carmel (5-0)
1979 Carmel (4-1) & Huntington North (4-1)
1980 Carmel (5-0)
1981 Carmel (5-0)
1982 Carmel (5-0)
1983 Carmel (5-0)
1984 Carmel (4-0)
1985 Carmel (5-0)
1986 Carmel (5-0)
1987 Noblesville (5-0)
1988 Huntington North (5-0)
1989 Carmel (5-0)
1990 Carmel (5-0)
1991 Carmel (5-0)
1992 Carmel (4-1), Connersville (4-1), Huntington North (4-1) & Muncie South (4-1)
1993 Carmel (5-0)
1994 Carmel (5-0)
1995 Carmel (5-0)
1996 Carmel (5-0)
1997 Noblesville (5-0)

Ok...so that MAY account for HALF the schedule. And your original point, as weak as it was, was based on qualifying for the playoffs. That ended prior to the 1985 season. Add to that they were put in a cluster in 1983 and 1984....not really under their control what cluster they were in. AND, My focus was the OUT of conference schedule. 

Probably should have quit while you were behind though. 

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19 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Ok...so that MAY account for HALF the schedule. And your original point, as weak as it was, was based on qualifying for the playoffs. That ended prior to the 1985 season. Add to that they were put in a cluster in 1983 and 1984....not really under their control what cluster they were in. AND, My focus was the OUT of conference schedule. 

Probably should have quit while you were behind though. 

He ain't no quitter.

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57 minutes ago, Irishman said:

Ok...so that MAY account for HALF the schedule. And your original point, as weak as it was, was based on qualifying for the playoffs. That ended prior to the 1985 season. Add to that they were put in a cluster in 1983 and 1984....not really under their control what cluster they were in. AND, My focus was the OUT of conference schedule. 

Probably should have quit while you were behind though. 

http://www.almanacsports.com/football/schedule.php?team=CAR&season=1977

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1 hour ago, Irishman said:

Add to that they were put in a cluster in 1983 and 1984

Carmel Greyhounds

All-State Players - Coaches - History

1983 Results

189218931894189518961897189818991900190119021903190419051906190719081909191019111912191319141915191619171918191919201921192219231924192519261927192819291930193119321933193419351936193719381939194019411942194319441945194619471948194919501951195219531954195519561957195819591960196119621963196419651966196719681969197019711972197319741975197619771978197919801981198219831984198519861987198819891990199119921993199419951996199719981999200020012002200320042005200620072008200920102011201220132014201520162017201820192020   
Date  Opponent  Score
Aug. 19  Muncie North @ Win 36-8
Aug. 26  North Central (Indianapolis) Loss 6-14
Sep. 2  Anderson Madison-Heights @ Win 28-0
Sep. 9  Kokomo Haworth @ Win 35-7
Sep. 16  Warren Central Win 20-0
Sep. 23  Noblesville Win 14-6
Sep. 30  Muncie South @ Win 28-0
Oct. 7  Lafayette Jefferson Win 14-0
Oct. 14  Huntington North @ Win 33-14
Oct. 19  Ben Davis Win 7-0
Oct. 28  Anderson Highland Loss 14-34
@ - Olympic conference game

Conference Standings

The wind went out of Carmel's sail in the cluster era; WC picked up at that point. 

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35 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said:

Am I the only one seeing the irony of a stat boi questioning a HOF coach?

I can't believe someone is arguing AGAINST how great of a coach DD was/is....

 

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Just now, DanteEstonia said:

Carmel Greyhounds

All-State Players - Coaches - History

1983 Results

189218931894189518961897189818991900190119021903190419051906190719081909191019111912191319141915191619171918191919201921192219231924192519261927192819291930193119321933193419351936193719381939194019411942194319441945194619471948194919501951195219531954195519561957195819591960196119621963196419651966196719681969197019711972197319741975197619771978197919801981198219831984198519861987198819891990199119921993199419951996199719981999200020012002200320042005200620072008200920102011201220132014201520162017201820192020   
Date  Opponent  Score
Aug. 19  Muncie North @ Win 36-8
Aug. 26  North Central (Indianapolis) Loss 6-14
Sep. 2  Anderson Madison-Heights @ Win 28-0
Sep. 9  Kokomo Haworth @ Win 35-7
Sep. 16  Warren Central Win 20-0
Sep. 23  Noblesville Win 14-6
Sep. 30  Muncie South @ Win 28-0
Oct. 7  Lafayette Jefferson Win 14-0
Oct. 14  Huntington North @ Win 33-14
Oct. 19  Ben Davis Win 7-0
Oct. 28  Anderson Highland Loss 14-34
@ - Olympic conference game

Conference Standings

????? Ok, they were still in a conference, but every team was put into a cluster with a few teams; Conferences were not a consideration when the clusters were put together. If you won your cluster, you went to the playoffs in 83 and 84. Not sure what your point is, or even what you are attempting with the post; but seriously, let it go. Your point was not a good one; and yet you dig in even further. 

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