Jump to content

Hypothetical - What happens if the NCC breaks apart?


Recommended Posts

12 hours ago, Bears62 said:

Yes, all 3 have had their moments in recent times. I believe Harrison has consistently won the NCC award for overall performance across all sports for both boys and girls each year so it’s not like these 3 schools wouldn’t add depth to other conferences if they were to join. An unlucky location really holds them back

Very true, a little better than Terre Haute but not by much.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 70
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Thats where we differ.  I dont consider Greenwood, with 1200 students, to be a large school.  I do consider Center Grove, with 2500 students and right down the road, to indeed be a large school.  

How long will it take before Jeff starts getting criticized for playing in a small school conference? About one season This set up does nothing more  to prep them for Center Grove and Carmel

I still cannot believe Tech is in this conference. Tech needs to make the move to conference Indiana. 

I will give @DT credit for this thread. It does get a lot of us thinking about what the NCC could look like if things were to change.  The Schools to the west in the NCC all seem to be trending upward in football so that shift could be good for them, I would just hate to see certain rivalries die, like Kokomo vs. Marion. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Gipper said:

Very true, a little better than Terre Haute but not by much.

The difference is that Tippecanoe County has enough people to have more than two schools, and those schools could be the founding members of their own conference. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

Why?  Is this the old 'city speed' argument again?

 

Demographics and recent history. If you’ve watched these 2 play at all within the last 5 seasons, then u should understand. Harrison has not had better athletes than Jeff, instead they win by being disciplined. Hell they run the triple option.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bears62 said:

Demographics and recent history. If you’ve watched these 2 play at all within the last 5 seasons, then u should understand. Harrison has not had better athletes than Jeff, instead they win by being disciplined. Hell they run the triple option.

Thank you for answering "yes".

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, Bears62 said:

Fair, but if we’re being real about it, Jeff or Harrison will most likely never be able to field teams to beat a Carmel or CG type of football team. Jeff is at the bottom of 6a and Harrison is at the top of 5a in terms of students, it would take a special group of players to take down one of the big Indy dogs. And that’s no knock on them, they hover right around 2000-2100 students which is significantly less than the contenders in 6a every year. And I disagree  that Harrison is closing the gap on Jeff. They’ve had close games with them the past 3 years or so, but just because they are growing in students doesn’t mean anything when it comes to on-field performance. Jeff is more than likely going to continue to have better athletes than Harrison. If Coach Shanley were to leave, then I could easily see Harrison overtaking them, they have a great program. The best thing that could happen for the Lafayette schools would be that the MIC and HCC see massive realignment between their schools that leaves the HCC with spots to fill.

Just curious as to the reasoning for this viewpoint.  Lafayette/West Lafayette isn't that big of an area where you can sometimes argue that there is an area of a really big city that produces better/stronger/faster athletes.  For the most part, there really isn't a lot of movement between the schools with regard to athletics ... save for one fairly well-known one in the area where he played Harrison ball then ended up at Jeff and then bolted further north in the state.  The schools are pretty close to comparable in size.  I could certainly agree with that view point if you were, for example, comparing 1A LCC to 6A Jeff or even 3A West Lafayette to 6A Jeff due to the numbers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Muda69 said:

IMO any grade 9-12 school with over 1000 students is considers "large".

 

 

Thats where we differ.  I dont consider Greenwood, with 1200 students, to be a large school.  I do consider Center Grove, with 2500 students and right down the road, to indeed be a large school.  

Its quite simple in my view :

1A/2A   small school

3A/4A   medium school

5A/6A   large school

 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, foxbat said:

Just curious as to the reasoning for this viewpoint.  Lafayette/West Lafayette isn't that big of an area where you can sometimes argue that there is an area of a really big city that produces better/stronger/faster athletes.  For the most part, there really isn't a lot of movement between the schools with regard to athletics ... save for one fairly well-known one in the area where he played Harrison ball then ended up at Jeff and then bolted further north in the state.  The schools are pretty close to comparable in size.  I could certainly agree with that view point if you were, for example, comparing 1A LCC to 6A Jeff or even 3A West Lafayette to 6A Jeff due to the numbers. 

There is a large demographic difference between Jeff and Harrison

Jeff is located in the "inner city" and has the following racial makeup :

White  49%    Hispanic 30%   Black  15%   Other 6%

Harrison is located on the city outskirts in the suburbs and has the following racial makeup:

White  79%  Hispanic  11%   Black  4%   Other 6%

When someone says one school has better athletes than another, this is the data they are referring to

Blacks play at and excel in football at a significantly higher rate than do whites    Jeff has more than 3 times the number of black students as a percent to total enrollment than does Harrison.

These are the facts and the publicly posted data.

 

 

9 minutes ago, DT said:

Thats where we differ.  I dont consider Greenwood, with 1200 students, to be a large school.  I do consider Center Grove, with 2500 students and right down the road, to indeed be a large school.  

Its quite simple in my view :

1A/2A   small school

3A/4A   medium school

5A/6A   large school

 

You are from small town Maconaquah.  .  I'm from the Chicago suburbs.  .  Our senses of big and small may not be in alignment

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, DT said:

Thats where we differ.  I dont consider Greenwood, with 1200 students, to be a large school.  I do consider Center Grove, with 2500 students and right down the road, to indeed be a large school.  

Its quite simple in my view :

1A/2A   small school

3A/4A   medium school

5A/6A   large school

 

How come you don't have Greenwood contract, Mr. P.?  They could then be absorbed into Center Grove and be called Center Greengrove Wood Trojanman and Trojanwoman (for you that get triggggggered by pronouns).

Enrollment of 3,700.  UNSTOPPABLE!

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, DE said:

How come you don't have Greenwood contract, Mr. P.?  They could then be absorbed into Center Grove and be called Center Greengrove Wood Trojanman and Trojanwoman (for you that get triggggggered by pronouns).

Enrollment of 3,700.  UNSTOPPABLE!

I get great enjoyment watching a football machine at a school with 2500 students pound opposing schools with 3000, 4000 and 5000 student enrollments into the dirt.  

Its a thing of beauty and should be watched and embraced by all as it is currently at its all time peak.  All of the great dynasties came to an end.  

Gary in the 20s and 30s

East Chicago Roosevelt in the 40s and 50s

The Duneland Conference in the 70s

Penn/Ben Davis/Hobart/Sheriden in the 80s and 90s

All eventually came to an end.  The only enduring dynasties are the Catholic ones.  Chatard, Cathedral, Roncalli, Luers, Dwenger

Cgs time will come to an end as well.

Enjoy it while its here   The 2020 Trojans were one of Indianas all time best.  2021 should be even better

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, DT said:

I get great enjoyment watching a football machine at a school with 2500 students pound opposing schools with 3000, 4000 and 5000 student enrollments into the dirt.  

Its a thing of beauty and should be watched and embraced by all as it is currently at its all time peak.  All of the great dynasties came to an end.  

Gary in the 20s and 30s

East Chicago Roosevelt in the 40s and 50s

The Duneland Conference in the 70s

Penn/Ben Davis/Hobart/Sheriden in the 80s and 90s

All eventually came to an end.  The only enduring dynasties are the Catholic ones.  Chatard, Cathedral, Roncalli, Luers, Dwenger

Cgs time will come to an end as well.

Enjoy it while its here   The 2020 Trojans were one of Indianas all time best.  2021 should be even better

 

I hope you knew I was kidding....you know, with the name mash up and all.  😉

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, DE said:

I hope you knew I was kidding....you know, with the name mash up and all.  😉

Yes, you are rarely to be taken seriously

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, DT said:

There is a large demographic difference between Jeff and Harrison

Jeff is located in the "inner city" and has the following racial makeup :

White  49%    Hispanic 30%   Black  15%   Other 6%

Harrison is located on the city outskirts in the suburbs and has the following racial makeup:

White  79%  Hispanic  11%   Black  4%   Other 6%

When someone says one school has better athletes than another, this is the data they are referring to

Blacks play at and excel in football at a significantly higher rate than do whites    Jeff has more than 3 times the number of black students as a percent to total enrollment than does Harrison.

These are the facts and the publicly posted data.

 

 

You are from small town Maconaquah.  .  I'm from the Chicago suburbs.  .  Our senses of big and small may not be in alignment

I think you are attributing 1) way too much success due to racial make-up and 2) way too much reliance on 15% of a team to "make-up" for the "watering down" of rest of the team. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, foxbat said:

I think you are attributing 1) way too much success due to racial make-up and 2) way too much reliance on 15% of a team to "make-up" for the "watering down" of rest of the team. 

 

How else would you interpret the data?  I have no issue with you disagreeing with my conclusions, but geez, give me something to work with bro.

Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, DE said:

How come you don't have Greenwood contract, Mr. P.?

For the record, I would merge Greenwood Community Schools and Clark-Pleasant Community Schools, since the kids who live in northern Clark Township are closer to Greenwood than Whiteland. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, DT said:

Yes, you are rarely to be taken seriously

Bazinga, Mr. P.

So I take it by your witty comeback, that you completely missed it.  Got it.

Now back to your daily "take my ball and go home" rants.  Oh wait, that will only last a few minutes.  😉

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, DT said:

How else would you interpret the data?  I have no issue with you disagreeing with my conclusions, but geez, give me something to work with bro.

Center Grove, Westfield, Arsenal Tech, and Crispus Attucks, for starters, say that those numbers don't matter as much as you are implying that they do. 

I think it's way too simplistic to state that a team has "better athletes" just because of the racial make-up of their team.  Is there a higher representation of Blacks in football in Indiana compared to the general population? Sure.  Does that mean that they are better athletes than Whites?  I wouldn't make that conjecture as a sweeping statement. The numbers don't always tell the context and correlation, even though I'm not seeing it in this case for the general case, doesn't equate to causation. 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, foxbat said:

Just curious as to the reasoning for this viewpoint.  Lafayette/West Lafayette isn't that big of an area where you can sometimes argue that there is an area of a really big city that produces better/stronger/faster athletes.  For the most part, there really isn't a lot of movement between the schools with regard to athletics ... save for one fairly well-known one in the area where he played Harrison ball then ended up at Jeff and then bolted further north in the state.  The schools are pretty close to comparable in size.  I could certainly agree with that view point if you were, for example, comparing 1A LCC to 6A Jeff or even 3A West Lafayette to 6A Jeff due to the numbers. 

I agree with you that Lafayette/West Lafayette isn’t big enough to have different types of athletes across different parts of the cities. Though i do find it interesting that West Side has had great success and undoubtedly fielded the best team out of any of the schools during certain years despite the population discrepancy and not ideal demographics for a football team. But I truly believe Jeff has had/will continue to have better athletes due to a combination of the demographics and the fact that Harrison has a really good soccer program that steals some athletes away. Soccer and Wrestling are right up there with football as far as how big a deal they are to the school. And dating back at least a decade, Jeff has dominated the area in sprint events in track and field within the area. Harrison, West Side and Mcc all have have found more success in distance events.

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bears62 said:

I agree with you that Lafayette/West Lafayette isn’t big enough to have different types of athletes across different parts of the cities. Though i do find it interesting that West Side has had great success and undoubtedly fielded the best team out of any of the schools during certain years despite the population discrepancy and not ideal demographics for a football team. But I truly believe Jeff has had/will continue to have better athletes due to a combination of the demographics and the fact that Harrison has a really good soccer program that steals some athletes away. Soccer and Wrestling are right up there with football as far as how big a deal they are to the school. And dating back at least a decade, Jeff has dominated the area in sprint events in track and field within the area. Harrison, West Side and Mcc all have have found more success in distance events.

The prosecution rests

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, foxbat said:

Center Grove, Westfield, Arsenal Tech, and Crispus Attucks, for starters, say that those numbers don't matter as much as you are implying that they do. 

I think it's way too simplistic to state that a team has "better athletes" just because of the racial make-up of their team.  Is there a higher representation of Blacks in football in Indiana compared to the general population? Sure.  Does that mean that they are better athletes than Whites?  I wouldn't make that conjecture as a sweeping statement. The numbers don't always tell the context and correlation, even though I'm not seeing it in this case for the general case, doesn't equate to causation. 

 

 

 

 

For the record, I was not the poster who made the statement about one school having better athletes than the other.  I simply provided the data that supports this generalised statement.

On the other, I do take the facts and the suppoprtying data and come to my own conclusion.  I would agree that Jeff produces more and higher end athletic talent than does Harrison.  This does not always equate to winning.  I.E the Center Grove vs Ben Davis and Center Grove vs Warren Central examples.   But the fact is that Jeff has a higher percentage of black athletes on the roster, black athletes historically outperform white athletes on the field of play, and Jeff is the dominant player in track and field.  I may or may not be right, but those are my beliefs relative to the subject matter

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Bears62 said:

I agree with you that Lafayette/West Lafayette isn’t big enough to have different types of athletes across different parts of the cities. Though i do find it interesting that West Side has had great success and undoubtedly fielded the best team out of any of the schools during certain years despite the population discrepancy and not ideal demographics for a football team. But I truly believe Jeff has had/will continue to have better athletes due to a combination of the demographics and the fact that Harrison has a really good soccer program that steals some athletes away. Soccer and Wrestling are right up there with football as far as how big a deal they are to the school. And dating back at least a decade, Jeff has dominated the area in sprint events in track and field within the area. Harrison, West Side and Mcc all have have found more success in distance events.

This certainly used to be the trend, but it may, potentially, be in flux if recent standings hold as a trend.

Harrison has been the NCC champ in track twice: 2018 and 2019 ... although the state finals were not held last year.  Jeff also has two titles in track: 1972 and 2002.  Cross country has Harrison with two: 2018 and 2019 and Jeff with six ... its most recent two coming in 2014 and 2015.

In looking at state finals, 2018 was the last set as 19-20 was cancelled because of COVID.  Results there are interesting:

For regionals:

  • 100-meter dash finals: Harrison 5th, Jeff 6th
  • 110-meter hurdles final - Harrison 3rd and 8th, Jeff no place
  • 200-meter dash - Jeff 3rd, Harrison no place
  • 1600-meter run - Harrison 2nd and 3rd, Jeff no place
  • 4x100-meter relay - Harrison 2nd, Jeff 6th
  • 400-meter dash - Harrison 10th, Jeff no place
  • 300-meter hurdles - Harrison 10th, Jeff no place
  • 800-meter run - Harrison 1st, Jeff no place
  • 3200-meter run - Harrison 3rd and 8th, Jeff no place
  • 4x400 relay - Harrison 6th, Jeff no place

I didn't pull state yet ... running off to work.  Will take a look, but the times they may be a changin'.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...