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Muda69

The Problem with "Reparations"

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https://www.mediaite.com/news/chill-chill-chill-chill-congressional-hearing-explodes-as-witness-trashes-slavery-reparations-bill/

A congressional hearing erupted when Quillette writer Coleman Hughes trashed a bill to study slavery reparations as a “moral and political mistake,” forcing the chair of the hearing to tell the audience to “chill” several times.

The House Judiciary Committee’s Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties held a hearing Wednesday entitled “H.R. 40 and the Path to Restorative Justice,” at which witnesses testified about reparations for slavery. HR 40 is a bill which proposes a commission to study reparations.

Hughes testified for the minority and delivered a lengthy opening statement against the bill in question. After noting that “nothing I’m about to say is meant to minimize the horror and brutality of slavery and Jim Crow” and that he considers “our failure to pay reparations directly to freed slaves after the civil war to be one of the greatest injustices ever perpetrated by the US government,” he went in on the bill for four solid minutes.

The audience at the hearing booed Hughes after he said, “Black people don’t need another apology. We need safer neighborhoods and better schools. We need a less punitive criminal justice system. We need affordable health care. And none of these things can be achieved through reparations for slavery.”

“Nearly everyone close to me told me not to testify today,” Hughes noted, adding, “They told me that even though I have only ever voted for Democrats, I would be perceived as Republican and therefore hated by half the country. Others told me that by distancing myself from Republicans, I would end up angering the other half of the country. And the sad truth is that they were both right. That’s how suspicious we have become. Of one another. That’s how divided we are. As a nation

He went on to describe reparations as not just divisive, but an “insult” to “many black Americans by putting a price on the suffering of their ancestors, and we would turn the relationship between black Americans and white Americans from a coalition into a transaction.”

Hughes went on to say that, “Reparations by definition are only given to victims, so the moment you give me reparations, you’ve made me into a victim without my consent. Not just that, you’ve made 1/3 of black Americans who poll against reparations into victims without their consent, and black Americans have fought too long for the right to define themselves to be spoken for in such a condescending manner.”

“The question is not what America owes me by virtue of my ancestry, the question is what all Americans owe each other by virtue of being citizens of the same nation,” Hughes said. “And the obligation of citizenship is not transactional. It’s not contingent on ancestry. It never expires, and it can’t be paid off. For all these reasons, bill HR 40 is a moral and political mistake.”

As the audience booed Hughes, subcommittee Chairman Steve Cohen banged the gavel and said “Chill, chill, chill, chill!”

As the chamber quieted, Cohen added: “He was presumptive, but he still has a right to speak.”

SF agreed with Mr. Hughes......watch the video - he makes an incredibly compelling argument.......watch the reactions of the people off the left side of the camera (his right shoulder) - not happy.......Comical is the juvenile response in a Congressional hearing room.  Also comical is the Chair's attempt to restore order by banging his gavel and yelling "Chill, chill.." then categorizing the witness as "presumptive"......

 

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1 hour ago, swordfish said:

“The question is not what America owes me by virtue of my ancestry, the question is what all Americans owe each other by virtue of being citizens of the same nation,” Hughes said. “And the obligation of citizenship is not transactional. It’s not contingent on ancestry. It never expires, and it can’t be paid off. For all these reasons, bill HR 40 is a moral and political mistake.”

SF agreed with Mr. Hughes......watch the video - he makes an incredibly compelling argument.......watch the reactions of the people off the left side of the camera (his right shoulder) - not happy.......Comical is the juvenile response in a Congressional hearing room.  Also comical is the Chair's attempt to restore order by banging his gavel and yelling "Chill, chill.." then categorizing the witness as "presumptive"......

 

"Restorative Justice"  What a joke.

And this American doesn't "owe" other American citizens anything.   And the only real obligation I have is to keep my nose out of another American's affairs unless specifically asked to by that other American.  

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Yes - This is a meme....BUT Danny Glover DID testify before the same House Committee as Mr. Hughes.....

Image may contain: 1 person, meme and text

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https://pjmedia.com/trending/owens-on-reparations-how-about-the-democratic-party-pay-for-all-the-misery-it-brought-to-my-race/?fbclid=IwAR1sPCA2JoXUV6iCpRIs2uag6XNTq4TEwsD1ZvER-kIZ7NksWJ5_HexXiJI

"Let's pay restitution. How about the Democratic Party pay for all the misery brought to my race and those, after we learn our history, who decide to stay there, they should pay also. They're complicit. And every white American, Republican or Democrat, that feels guilty because of their white skin, you should need to pony up also -- that way we can get past this reparation and recognize that this country has given us greatness," Burgess said.

"Look at this panel. It doesn't matter how we think. It doesn't matter our color. We have become successful in this country like no other because of this great opportunity to live the American dream. Let's not steal that from our kids by telling them they can't do it," he added.

 

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Shouldn't only those in the confederate states have to come up with the reparations funding?  Us northerners should be off the hook for this shakedown.   

What if your family wasn't even here when slavery was going on?  Should those folks have to pay?

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1 hour ago, raiderx2 said:

Shouldn't only those in the confederate states have to come up with the reparations funding?  Us northerners should be off the hook for this shakedown.   

What if your family wasn't even here when slavery was going on?  Should those folks have to pay?

If you are a member of the Caucasian race you were implicit in the evil of slavery, the plight of the American indian,  placing Japanese Americans into camps during WW2,  etc. ,  and have to pay.  Reparations for blacks,  American indians,  Japanese,  Chinese, etc. all we will be paid via increases in the federal income tax for "whites only".   Seems to be simplest and most direct method, does it not?

 

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And this is why I'm against reparations. Not only the money, but it's just going to make racism worse.

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From the people I have talked with that support the concept of reparations, it has little to do with money and more to do with laws that are in place that put people of color at a disadvantage. There is also a hope to erase the mindset that leads to this kind of thing.

 

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perhaps McCartney got it right a long time ago........

Say you don't need no diamond ring 
And I'll be satisfied 
Tell me that you want those kind of things 
That money just can't buy 
I don't care too much for money 
For money can't buy me love

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12 hours ago, Irishman said:

From the people I have talked with that support the concept of reparations, it has little to do with money and more to do with laws that are in place that put people of color at a disadvantage. There is also a hope to erase the mindset that leads to this kind of thing.

 

82000F0E-7536-4DDC-9F44-43C3A8E9459D.jpeg

You are spot on in the analysis.  It's really not about the money.

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42 minutes ago, foxbat said:

You are spot on in the analysis.  It's really not about the money.

Yet money is part of the equation....at least with some

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https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/19/coleman_hughes_the_moment_you_give_someone_reparations_youve_made_them_into_a_victim.html

Quote

Columnist Coleman Hughes expressed his opposition to reparations for slavery at a House Judiciary subcommittee hearing Wednesday. Hughes, a writer for 'Quillette,' said the moment one is given reparations they are made a victim without their consent.
 

COLEMAN HUGHES: Black people don’t need another apology. We need safer neighborhoods and better schools. We need a less punitive criminal justice system. We need affordable health care. And none of these things can be achieved through reparations for slavery...

Reparations by definition are only given to victims, so the moment you give me reparations, you’ve made me into a victim without my consent. Not just that, you’ve made 1/3 of black Americans who poll against reparations into victims without their consent, and black Americans have fought too long for the right to define themselves to be spoken for in such a condescending manner.

But we are a society the seems to increasingly define itself by our victimhood, and what government can do, no what it has to do,  to right that wrong, even if it is a "microaggression".

 

 

18 hours ago, Irishman said:

From the people I have talked with that support the concept of reparations, it has little to do with money and more to do with laws that are in place that put people of color at a disadvantage. There is also a hope to erase the mindset that leads to this kind of thing.

 

So what Jim Crow laws are still actively in place in the United States of America?  Here in Indiana?

 

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12 hours ago, TrojanDad said:

Yet money is part of the equation....at least with some

There are some situations where money does apply, but it has been very rare that I have heard any talk of it. As far as where it would apply, there are contracts the US agreed to with Native American groups, that allowed their property to be mined for oil. The amounts were specific enough to say, we as a nation owe them. 

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8 hours ago, Irishman said:

There are some situations where money does apply, but it has been very rare that I have heard any talk of it. As far as where it would apply, there are contracts the US agreed to with Native American groups, that allowed their property to be mined for oil. The amounts were specific enough to say, we as a nation owe them. 

I don’t see that example as much as a reparation. Are you sure that wouldn’t occur regardless who owned the property?

That wasn’t my point...some people say it’s not about the money....while at the same time, they want the cash. 

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On 6/21/2019 at 12:39 PM, raiderx2 said:

Shouldn't only those in the confederate states have to come up with the reparations funding?  Us northerners should be off the hook for this shakedown.   

What if your family wasn't even here when slavery was going on?  Should those folks have to pay?

Nothing geographical about it......If you are white.........You are white......

Not that "reverse" racism can ever exist however.......at least according to the academics on the GID......

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1 hour ago, swordfish said:

Nothing geographical about it......If you are white.........You are white......

Not that "reverse" racism can ever exist however.......at least according to the academics on the GID......

In every discussion I have heard, the reparations would be paid by the U.S. federal government, not by any specific individuals of any certain race (or who live in any certain area of the country, etc.). The federal government would be paying compensation to surviving relatives of people the U.S. government victimized by systematically denying them basic human rights, like the right to liberty, self-determination, etc.  

I am puzzled how anyone could intepret that as "racist" toward white Americans? Can you help me understand your logic in suggesting that?

 

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6 minutes ago, Wabash82 said:

I am puzzled how anyone could intepret that as "racist" toward white Americans? Can you help me understand your logic in suggesting that?

 

Simple racist answer from an apparently racist poster (SF) to the question posed by Raiderx2......

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8 minutes ago, Wabash82 said:

In every discussion I have heard, the reparations would be paid by the U.S. federal government, not by any specific individuals of any certain race (or who live in any certain area of the country, etc.). The federal government would be paying compensation to surviving relatives of people the U.S. government victimized by systematically denying them basic human rights, like the right to liberty, self-determination, etc.  

And how exactly at the end of the day is the majority of U.S. federal government spending funded?   I guess those receiving reparation payments would in effect getting part of their paid federal income taxes back,  assuming they had taxable income.     "Free" money!  And why should the descendants of citizens from non-slave owning states be forced to pay for reparations via their federal income taxes? 

No,  this whole reparations "discussion" is a ploy by democrats to ensure that African Americans keep voting Democrat.    After all,  African Americans are no longer the largest racial minority in the U.S.A,  Hispanic/Latino Americans are.

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25 minutes ago, Wabash82 said:

In every discussion I have heard, the reparations would be paid by the U.S. federal government, not by any specific individuals of any certain race (or who live in any certain area of the country, etc.). The federal government would be paying compensation to surviving relatives of people the U.S. government victimized by systematically denying them basic human rights, like the right to liberty, self-determination, etc.  

 

 

 

BTW - So if this is not about race......Are you advocating reparations for LGBTQ citizens as well......?

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1 hour ago, swordfish said:

 

BTW - So if this is not about race......Are you advocating reparations for LGBTQ citizens as well......?

If someone puts together the evidence to establish the cause and effect relationship, I personally would consider it.

 

1 hour ago, swordfish said:

Simple racist answer from an apparently racist poster (SF) to the question posed by Raiderx2......

I'm not sure how to have a discussion if you are so defensive. Why do you feel like this idea (reparations) is some sort of personal reflection on you? 

1 hour ago, Muda69 said:

And how exactly at the end of the day is the majority of U.S. federal government spending funded?   I guess those receiving reparation payments would in effect getting part of their paid federal income taxes back,  assuming they had taxable income.     "Free" money!  And why should the descendants of citizens from non-slave owning states be forced to pay for reparations via their federal income taxes? 

 

Is it somehow a novel notion to you that some of the things your federal taxes fund are programs that don't benefit you directly? Or that there may be federal programs that benefit you that other people who don't benefit from tjose programs pay taxes to help fund them?   

Why in this particular case is that concept any more offensive? 

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17 minutes ago, Wabash82 said:

If someone puts together the evidence to establish the cause and effect relationship, I personally would consider it.

 

Do you have evidence with consensus that reparations are indeed effective?

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