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How we fix Northern 6A football


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3 hours ago, temptation said:

Thank you.  Such a piss poor excuse from an outsider.

I know, the truth just sucks sometimes. I mean, if I lived in Central Indiana, I'd want to believe the worst team in the HCC is better than the best team in the SAC. I get it. You guys down south just keep playing pretend if it makes you feel better. 

Edited by BTF
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On 2/13/2021 at 2:12 PM, BTF said:

Homestead was bored to tears on that bus ride down to Indy en route to playing a 1-9 team. It showed on the field. The following week they outplayed the HCC's best team, Carmel, for a half without their best player on offense. 

Boy, take a few days off and you lose.  I hadn't realized Carmel was now in the HCC. Welcome Hounds!

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29 minutes ago, Staxawax said:

Boy, take a few days off and you lose.  I hadn't realized Carmel was now in the HCC. Welcome Hounds!

Congrats. I was wondering who was going to be the first to call me out on that error. 

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On 2/13/2021 at 1:37 PM, Gipper said:

improvement comes from within.

I suppose that is technically true. But the stimulus or motivation for that improvement can be external. Development of new rivalries with good teams can stimulate the drive to improve. How many times have we heard of a school playing an unfamiliar, difficult opponent in the playoffs, getting thumped, and then they they say something like, “it was a valuable experience because now we understand what it takes to get to the next level.” It’s true. New competition can drive improvement.

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2 hours ago, Bobref said:

I suppose that is technically true. But the stimulus or motivation for that improvement can be external. Development of new rivalries with good teams can stimulate the drive to improve. How many times have we heard of a school playing an unfamiliar, difficult opponent in the playoffs, getting thumped, and then they they say something like, “it was a valuable experience because now we understand what it takes to get to the next level.” It’s true. New competition can drive improvement.

If the goal is to win the state title then this will not suffice.  It may improve attendance and increase interest in certain regions of the state but the gap is growing between the “haves and have nots” in terms of enrollment and SES as it relates to Central Indiana and the rest of the state.

If you have a low SES, you’d better have an enrollment advantage.

if you have low enrollment compared to the rest of your class, you’d better have a competitive SES.

if you have neither, you are sunk.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, temptation said:

If the goal is to win the state title then this will not suffice.  It may improve attendance and increase interest in certain regions of the state but the gap is growing between the “haves and have nots” in terms of enrollment and SES as it relates to Central Indiana and the rest of the state.

If you have a low SES, you’d better have an enrollment advantage.

if you have low enrollment compared to the rest of your class, you’d better have a competitive SES.

if you have neither, you are sunk.

Success and improvement are functions of expectations. For probably 75% of the schools in the state, a state championship is an unrealistic expectation. Part of strategic improvement is setting realistic interim goals and checking them off one by one. A winning season, a conference championship, sectional titles, etc. There are many measuring sticks for improvement. We “fans” may not be interested in anything but rings, but that doesn’t mean the coaches or kids feel the same way. So, they’re not “sunk” by any realistic measuring stick.

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10 minutes ago, Bobref said:

Success and improvement are functions of expectations. For probably 75% of the schools in the state, a state championship is an unrealistic expectation. Part of strategic improvement is setting realistic interim goals and checking them off one by one. A winning season, a conference championship, sectional titles, etc. There are many measuring sticks for improvement. We “fans” may not be interested in anything but rings, but that doesn’t mean the coaches or kids feel the same way. So, they’re not “sunk” by any realistic measuring stick.

Valid point.  I was speaking specifically to competing state wide, but I see merit to your statement.

However, once you start checking off those smaller tangible goals, they become the expectation and boredom sets in.  People want more.
 

Edited by temptation
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On 2/13/2021 at 2:12 PM, BTF said:

Homestead was bored to tears on that bus ride down to Indy en route to playing a 1-9 team. It showed on the field. The following week they outplayed the HCC's best team, Carmel, for a half without their best player on offense. You central Indiana guys will bring that game up for years. 

That's not true. Per capita, Fort Wayne puts more players in the NFL than Indy.........it's a statistical fact. 

It was 14-7 Carmel at the half and the final was 31-7. Complete domination by Carmel. I watched that game as I was hoping Homestead could pull off the upset. Missing their best player wasn't the difference for the Spartans. It was the complete domination of Carmel's lines. The Hoosier Crossroads is a Conference made up of Homestead's and Carroll's. It's not really surprising when a bottom feeder of the HCC (Noblesville) can compete with an SAC school. 

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1 minute ago, Boilernation said:

It was 14-7 Carmel at the half and the final was 31-7. Complete domination by Carmel. I watched that game as I was hoping Homestead could pull off the upset. Missing their best player wasn't the difference for the Spartans. It was the complete domination of Carmel's lines. The Hoosier Crossroads is a Conference made up of Homestead's and Carroll's. It's not really surprising when a bottom feeder of the HCC (Noblesville) can compete with an SAC school. 

You didn't watch the first half, you are just going by a score. 

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3 minutes ago, Boilernation said:

It was 14-7 Carmel at the half and the final was 31-7. Complete domination by Carmel. I watched that game as I was hoping Homestead could pull off the upset. Missing their best player wasn't the difference for the Spartans. It was the complete domination of Carmel's lines. The Hoosier Crossroads is a Conference made up of Homestead's and Carroll's. It's not really surprising when a bottom feeder of the HCC (Noblesville) can compete with an SAC school. 

Plus there’s something to be said about schedule strength.  No fault of Homestead’s whatsoever but they were not going to show Noblesville anything they had not seen on a regular basis during the regular season.

Homestead gets a couple of Fridays off playing in the SAC, an opportunity not afforded to HCC schools.

1 minute ago, BTF said:

You didn't watch the first half, you are just going by a score. 

You weren’t on the bus, just searching for an excuse.

See how this works?

Edited by temptation
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I'm done with this conversation. You guys brought it up and I made a case. I will end with this:

HCC would probably win head to head (will never know)

SAC is probably better pound for pound (speculation)

Both conferences play darn good football. 

Much respect for HCC and their continual climb toward Central Indiana supremacy. 

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4 minutes ago, BTF said:

You didn't watch the first half, you are just going by a score. 

I watched the entire game. Homestead moved the ball in the 1st half, but couldn't force their will Carmel's D when it mattered. Carmel ran the ball down Homestead's throats. Like I said. Carmel's domination typically starts at their line play.

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On 2/12/2021 at 10:59 AM, BigBH said:

5. Football and Track

Center Grove is the model for the 21st Century High School Football Program in Indiana, and for the country as well.  The connection between the football and track programs is huge.  Northern staffs should look for ways to strengthen their relationship with their respective track programs.  Having one HC run both programs is a clear winning formula at CG.


Spot on here DT....I will add most of the athletic skill kids in the Indy area do not consider track anymore since 7 on 7 has become the must thing to do.  The bigger school track teams will sprinkle in weekend travel meets which will conflict with the 7 on 7 travel schedule.  Back in the day the lineman threw the shot/disk and skilled kids ran sprints....those days are on life support.

How is track helping Center Grove in football specifically?  I would like to hear more on that topic in detail.

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22 minutes ago, temptation said:

Plus there’s something to be said about schedule strength.  No fault of Homestead’s whatsoever but they were not going to show Noblesville anything they had not seen on a regular basis during the regular season.

Homestead gets a couple of Fridays off playing in the SAC, an opportunity not afforded to HCC schools.

You weren’t on the bus, just searching for an excuse.

See how this works?

Chatard struggled against Concordia in the playoffs. Would Chatard struggle to finish 5th in the SAC?

Please don't bring the Homestead game up again. 

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17 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

How is track helping Center Grove in football specifically?  I would like to hear more on that topic in detail.

I’ll speculate and probably step out of my lane (pun intended).

Having one guy in charge of both programs makes it a 365 day per year ordeal.  You can see your athletes nearly on a daily basis without violating any IHSAA protocols and work with them to improve their athletic profile.

I’ve met many egocentric coaches (more so in football than track) who brainwash the “specialization” nonsense along with threatening fall playing time.  I feel it’s gotten worse with the evolution of spring 7 on 7.  Man kids feel like they are missing out and falling behind if they play a spring sport...and it’s hard to do both effectively.

From purely a physiological standpoint, there is never anything wrong with improving your speed, strength, agility, reaction time, etc from participation in track and field in the spring.  It’s only going to help you in the fall.

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4 minutes ago, temptation said:

Thought you were done?

Just thought of that, had to mention it after thinking about your "see how that works" comment. 

I'm just not going to banter back and forth for too long. I think the HCC is a great conference.

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2 minutes ago, temptation said:

I’ll speculate and probably step out of my lane (pun intended).

Having one guy in charge of both programs makes it a 365 day per year ordeal.  You can see your athletes nearly on a daily basis without violating any IHSAA protocols and work with them to improve their athletic profile.

I’ve met many egocentric coaches (more so in football than track) who brainwash the “specialization” nonsense along with threatening fall playing time.  I feel it’s gotten worse with the evolution of spring 7 on 7.  Man kids feel like they are missing out and falling behind if they play a spring sport...and it’s hard to do both effectively.

From purely a physiological standpoint, there is never anything wrong with improving your speed, strength, agility, reaction time, etc from participation in track and field in the spring.  It’s only going to help you in the fall.

Thank you.  So playing a bit of devils advocate here, it really only works (or at least works best) when the football coach is the track coach?

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1 minute ago, temptation said:

And the SAC is a good one.

Your thinking too much in terms of enrollment. Think pound for pound. The SAC and HCC are on equal footing. Six SAC teams have won state for crying out loud. Seven have been to the finals. 

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4 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Thank you.  So playing a bit of devils advocate here, it really only works (or at least works best) when the football coach is the track coach?

Or has a great relationship with the track coach and both are LEGITIMATELY involved for the right reasons.  

I’ve seen all three sides:

1.  The two programs work (in either situation described above) flawlessly together.

2.  The two butt heads and kids suffer.

3.  The two talk out of both sides of their mouths yet their actions speak differently.

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