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Automatic touchbacks


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3 minutes ago, Trojanmp52 said:

How is it a player safety issues when you can run from then the one yard line but not a foot deep 

Because you can run from 8 yards deep and the opposing team has a further running start and it’s a high speed collision that’s my only guess?

I hate a lot of myself for example defensive PI should be a spot foul and the receiver and qb should get stats for those.

 

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of the 300+ High School teams in Indiana 

How many teams have a kicker who can actually kick it in the EZ 100% of the time let alone kick it 8 yards deep to run out in the first place? 

 

 

My money is on less than 20% teams 

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1 hour ago, Coach Nowlin said:

of the 300+ High School teams in Indiana 

How many teams have a kicker who can actually kick it in the EZ 100% of the time let alone kick it 8 yards deep to run out in the first place? 

 

 

My money is on less than 20% teams 

What is the reason for it being a touchback? Rewarding the kicker, player safety, or some other reason?

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7 hours ago, Whiting89 said:

What is the reason for it being a touchback? Rewarding the kicker, player safety, or some other reason?

I strongly doubt that it was originally a safety concern, since the rule was in place long before the current trend toward “risk minimization.” More likely a “reward” for the kicker, since it used to be quite uncommon for a high school kicker to reach the end zone. 

Now, however, safety concerns would probably squelch any attempt to change the rule.

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13 hours ago, Bobref said:

I strongly doubt that it was originally a safety concern, since the rule was in place long before the current trend toward “risk minimization.” More likely a “reward” for the kicker, since it used to be quite uncommon for a high school kicker to reach the end zone. 

Now, however, safety concerns would probably squelch any attempt to change the rule.

I believe you are correct. Another thing the NFHS rules committee is big on is keeping the rules as simple as possible. Unlike the NFL and NCAA the NFHS has a wider variety of ability of officials. Learning all rules is complex so if they can keep things simple they will prefer. That doesn't mean all rules are simple, but if there is a way to keep things simple they will do it. In this case, any time a kick crosses the goal line plane it's a touchback and the ball is dead. In NCAA and NFL there are many other factors to consider (touched by receiving team, airborne vs. touching in EZ, free kick vs. scrimmage kick, etc.). Most levels are trying to reduce the number of kick returns so anything they can do to reduce the number will probably be strongly considered. Allowing returners to bring a ball out of the end zone would increase the number of returns.

That being said, I think a returner should be able to bring a kick out of the end zone.

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On 5/8/2021 at 7:23 PM, Coach Nowlin said:

of the 300+ High School teams in Indiana 

How many teams have a kicker who can actually kick it in the EZ 100% of the time let alone kick it 8 yards deep to run out in the first place? 

My money is on less than 20% teams 

Significantly less than 20%.

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14 hours ago, Trojanmp52 said:

Do you think they will in time follow college as you can far catch in side the 10 I think and get it at the 25

In NCAA you can fair catch anywhere inside the 25 and get it at the 25. It has reduced the number of returns in college, especially on kicks into the corner. I can see the NFHS rules committee adopting it if they want to reduce the number of touchbacks on kicks. They addressed a safety aspect by providing less of a running start, but almost every kickoff is returned in HS football unlike other levels where touchbacks were already much more common. I've never seen any actual evidence of a larger number or more serious injuries happening on kick returns compared to other plays, but it does make sense. Real data would be helpful though.

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On 5/8/2021 at 12:19 PM, Trojanmp52 said:

Should kickoffs be allowed to be run out of the endzone?  I have seen kids try to make some crazy catches over the years to keep the ball in play.  

I've always viewed the automatic touchback as a reward for a team developing (or simply, "having") a kicker who can boot it into the endzone. Definitely a gamechanger for a team if you have a kicker who can consistently do that. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The ref's call on whether or not the player/ball is in our out of the endzone gets more complicated with the player's decision to down the ball or run it out. It will create more controversy since it could have a major impact on a game.

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1 minute ago, JeffO2 said:

The ref's call on whether or not the player/ball is in our out of the endzone gets more complicated with the player's decision to down the ball or run it out. It will create more controversy since it could have a major impact on a game.

Not sure I understand what you mean.The determination whether it is a touchback is made before the player either runs it out or downs it. One doesn’t have anything to do with the other.

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On 5/11/2021 at 9:22 AM, JustRules said:

 I've never seen any actual evidence of a larger number or more serious injuries happening on kick returns compared to other plays, but it does make sense. Real data would be helpful though.

Kickoffs are more dangerous from a concussion standpoint and rule changes at other levels have reduced the prevalence of concussions.  There is research and data to back this up.

https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2018/october/preventing-concussions-football

I'm all in favor of rule changes that make kickoffs (and the game in general) safer, but still allow the ability of a receiving team to attempt a return or a kicking team to attempt an onside kick. 

I would suggest one tweak to the automatic touchback rule.  If the receiving team catches the ball in the endzone on a kickoff they can return the kick (this at least preserves the ability to return in a late game situation).  However, if the kicked ball touches the ground either in the endzone or it bounces into the endzone it is immediately a touchback.  Just a thought.

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40 minutes ago, slicer28 said:

Kickoffs are more dangerous from a concussion standpoint and rule changes at other levels have reduced the prevalence of concussions.  There is research and data to back this up.

https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2018/october/preventing-concussions-football

I'm all in favor of rule changes that make kickoffs (and the game in general) safer, but still allow the ability of a receiving team to attempt a return or a kicking team to attempt an onside kick. 

I would suggest one tweak to the automatic touchback rule.  If the receiving team catches the ball in the endzone on a kickoff they can return the kick (this at least preserves the ability to return in a late game situation).  However, if the kicked ball touches the ground either in the endzone or it bounces into the endzone it is immediately a touchback.  Just a thought.

I understand the desire to reduce the number of kickoff returns as part of.a risk minimization strategy. But why do that using arbitrary requirements like whether the kick has been grounded, before or after crossing the plane? If that’s what you’re trying to accomplish, just change the rule to allow each team to elect to make 1 kickoff return per game. Every other time they just get the ball 1st down on the 25.

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I had a crazy idea,  before the kickoff the coach can tell the referee that if the ball is inside the 10 we will take it as a touchback at the 20.  If the coach says play it out ic can be returned out of the endzone if the returner chose to do so.

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6 hours ago, Bobref said:

I understand the desire to reduce the number of kickoff returns as part of.a risk minimization strategy. But why do that using arbitrary requirements like whether the kick has been grounded, before or after crossing the plane? If that’s what you’re trying to accomplish, just change the rule to allow each team to elect to make 1 kickoff return per game. Every other time they just get the ball 1st down on the 25.

I get that you are trying to remove what could become a judgement call for an official, but there is already an arbitrary requirement of a ball going out of bounds on a kickoff and a penalty being assessed.  It's basically the same premise, if the ball touches the ground in the endzone it's dead and a touchback is called.  

Either way, it's just a suggestion to maintain the kickoff as part of the game.

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8 hours ago, slicer28 said:

I would suggest one tweak to the automatic touchback rule.  If the receiving team catches the ball in the endzone on a kickoff they can return the kick (this at least preserves the ability to return in a late game situation).  However, if the kicked ball touches the ground either in the endzone or it bounces into the endzone it is immediately a touchback.  Just a thought.

This is similar to the NCAA rule. The slight difference is if the ball touches the ground in the end zone prior to being touched by a receiving team member, it's an automatic touchback. If the return team player muffs it in the end zone or or field of play and it goes into the end zone, it's still a live ball and can be downed for a touchback. That's what I would prefer if given the ability to write the rule.

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Always said it would be nice to find a unicorn type of kicker that puts it on the one and has hang time for his guys to wait for it to be caught.

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On 5/14/2021 at 11:20 AM, Coach McDonald said:

I've always viewed the automatic touchback as a reward for a team developing (or simply, "having") a kicker who can boot it into the endzone. Definitely a gamechanger for a team if you have a kicker who can consistently do that. 

Warsaw has definitely been blessed the last 15 years in the kicking department with Rogers, Franco and the Mevis brothers. I definitely always viewed it as a gamechanger for having/developing a kicker who can do this. Consistently making the opposing team start at the 20 yard line each possession is a huge competitive advantage IMO.

However, I also realize that it is very unlikely (that others have said here) that most schools are blessed with a kid who has this kind of leg strength and for the desire of trying to keep the young men safe, adding a fair-catch rule like NCAA would be a good thing to see.

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