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Duneland Should Consider Expansion to 12 Schools in Quest for Football Excellence


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8 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

You still haven't answered how condensing schedules and subsequently limiting scheduling opportunities better prepares 5A and 6A Northern teams in a state title pursuit? Merrillville, Valpo, Penn, etc are better off playing powerhouse Chicago schools/Indy powers than they are fellow DAC opponents. Cathedral, Naperville Central, Homewood-Flossmoor are much more similar to the Carmel's, Warren's, Center Grove's of the world than they are Chesterton, Portage, La Porte. 

In my view, this expanded DAC, which includes an open week for non con play, will encourage additional investment in member high school football programs, and ultimately increase the level of competiton "within" the conference.  That will eventually parlay into better post season results.  

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While I don't know the DAC scheduling practices....A lot of schools/conferences play their JV and/or Freshman games on Saturdays.  What happens to them?  The goal of high school football scheduli

In the DAC's current state? Why would they? Because at 12 members, its not feasibly possible for each school to play each other annually. And with too many dead weight programs currently in the

My gold standards are '06 Warren Central and '91 Ben Davis. Those two teams were exceptional. I don't know if we've seen the likes of them since or will see them again.

2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

And it turns out that it is really about helping Penn (along with the rest of the 5A and 6A Northern Schools) in a quest for a state title. If we're talking about re-aligning conferences to the point it prepares them accordingly for a title run, conference expansion under this proposal makes very little sense.

Take Merrillville, Valpo, Crown Point, and Michigan City, form a new six team new conference with Penn and Elkhart where you're playing five quality conference opponents in succession and it leaves you 4 open weeks. There's an open week or two to still schedule former DAC rivalries and then two to three open weeks to schedule regional powers from the Indy/Chicago/NW OH/Cincy area. 

Penn may have no difficulty finding non con opponents, but the others in your 6 team conference certainly would struggle to fill 4 open dates every year.  

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13 minutes ago, DT said:

In my view, this expanded DAC, which includes an open week for non con play, will encourage additional investment in member high school football programs, and ultimately increase the level of competiton "within" the conference.  That will eventually parlay into better post season results.  

There's no way you actually think expanding the DAC to more Northern schools better prepares them for better postseason results as was your original intent. Penn losing out on the opportunity to schedule both St. X and Cathedral (or likewise programs) does not better prepare them for a postseason run. 

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17 minutes ago, DT said:

Penn may have no difficulty finding non con opponents, but the others in your 6 team conference certainly would struggle to fill 4 open dates every year.  

How? If you split up the current DAC there's going to be more open weeks in the new conference alignment. Merrillville would still be able to schedule Michigan City/Lake Central/Portage whomever as they now have open weeks as well. 

Edited by Footballking16
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1 minute ago, Footballking16 said:

There's no way you actually think expanding the DAC to more Northern schools better prepares them for better postseason results as was your original intent   YES I DO. Penn losing out on the opportunity to schedule both St. X and Cathedral (or likewise programs) does not better prepare them for a postseason run.  They still have an open date for a PP

 

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13 minutes ago, DT said:

 

Lol.

I already went over this last night. Penn's 2021 schedule includes 6 teams that are better than any DAC team Penn stands to play under your new proposal with the exception of Elkhart and Valpo, who they already play every year anyway. Penn would only be able to keep one of: Cathedral/St. X/Mishawaka/Mishawaka Marian in your DAC expansion. All four of those programs are better than any team in Penn's new proposed DAC East alignment and under your crossover proposal would only play Merrillville every third year. Regardless of what you think, there's no way under any circumstance Penn benefits in your new DAC. None. 

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4 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Lol.

I already went over this last night. Penn's 2021 schedule includes 6 teams that are better than any DAC team Penn stands to play under your new proposal with the exception of Elkhart and Valpo, who they already play every year anyway. Penn would only be able to keep one of: Cathedral/St. X/Mishawaka/Mishawaka Marian in your DAC expansion. All four of those programs are better than any team in Penn's new proposed DAC East alignment and under your crossover proposal would only play Merrillville every third year. Regardless of what you think, there's no way under any circumstance Penn benefits in your new DAC. None. 

OK  We get it.  Thanks for your opinion

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

And it turns out that it is really about helping Penn (along with the rest of the 5A and 6A Northern Schools) in a quest for a state title. If we're talking about re-aligning conferences to the point it prepares them accordingly for a title run, conference expansion under this proposal makes very little sense.

Take Merrillville, Valpo, Crown Point, and Michigan City, form a new six team new conference with Penn and Elkhart where you're playing five quality conference opponents in succession and it leaves you 4 open weeks. There's an open week or two to still schedule former DAC rivalries and then two to three open weeks to schedule regional powers from the Indy/Chicago/NW OH/Cincy area. 

I agree with your stance that the issue tends to be quality as opposed to the quantity issue.  To an extent, it's kind of like I explain to high school / freshman when they are putting together their references for their resume.  I get so many kinds that will put six or seven references on the reference sheet and then tell me they have a strong list of references because they have so many.  To drive the point home, I ask them, what would happen if I call the first six people on their list and the line is busy and I get to the seventh and they answer and that's the only reference that I use ... how will it compare to the first one on their list?  The look on their face often tells me that Reference 7 isn't the one they want to hang their hat on and they trim that list.

I like the idea of the compact 6-team conference that you mentioned and then a "power" sub-schedule.  Preferably those in that power sub-schedule are something that you don't see in the others on a regular basis ... air raid vs. pound-and-ground vs. Swiss Army knife, OH Catholics, etc.  Of course, it can also be a traditional rivalry game too.

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14 minutes ago, foxbat said:

I like the idea of the compact 6-team conference that you mentioned and then a "power" sub-schedule.  Preferably those in that power sub-schedule are something that you don't see in the others on a regular basis ... air raid vs. pound-and-ground vs. Swiss Army knife, OH Catholics, etc.  Of course, it can also be a traditional rivalry game too.

Yes. I don't buy for one second that Valpo, Merrillville, Crown Point, and Michigan City would "struggle" fielding opponents with four open weeks. They already schedule two as is in the current DAC landscape. There would be four old DAC opponents who now have open weeks as well and a rotating scheduling of old DAC rivals/opponents would make sense in a worst case scenario. There's 250+ high schools in the Chicagoland area, would not be an extraneous task in the least. There's also a ton of Indy area schools who would be glad to schedule said schools as well. 

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24 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Yes. I don't buy for one second that Valpo, Merrillville, Crown Point, and Michigan City would "struggle" fielding opponents with four open weeks. They already schedule two as is in the current DAC landscape. There would be four old DAC opponents who now have open weeks as well and a rotating scheduling of old DAC rivals/opponents would make sense in a worst case scenario. There's 250+ high schools in the Chicagoland area, would not be an extraneous task in the least. There's also a ton of Indy area schools who would be glad to schedule said schools as well. 

Maybe the DAC doesn't want to break up.  Maybe there is loyalty amongst the 8 existing members who have long ties playing meaningful games against each other.  You continue to tilt the conversation*tion towards what might be in Penn's best interest

Penn is a cog in the wheel, not the entire wheel

Our objective is to lift the entire north, not just a few select schools

Sharpening the Saw weekly will help achieve that objective

 

 

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20 minutes ago, DT said:

Maybe the DAC doesn't want to break up.  Maybe there is loyalty amongst the 8 existing members who have long ties playing meaningful games against each other.  You continue to tilt the conversation*tion towards what might be in Penn's best interest

Penn is a cog in the wheel, not the entire wheel

Our objective is to lift the entire north, not just a few select schools

Sharpening the Saw weekly will help achieve that objective

 

 

Your entire proposal hinges on Penn and Elkhart becoming new members lol. What incentive does Penn and Elkhart have to join the DAC under your new proposal alignment? The ONLY way the DAC comes out better is IF Penn and Elkhart join. You need to get Penn and Elkhart on board. Your proposal doesn't move the needle for Penn or Ellkhart.

If the DAC wants to remain loyal to its 8 existing members, then conference expansion to 12 teams really doesn't make much sense then does it?

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2 hours ago, DT said:

Really?

This isnt the NFL.  If playing one Saturday during the regular season destroys your game prep for the following week, perhaps you are in over your head already

Give me a break

Interesting how Catholic school supporters and alumni seem to have all the answers to public school challenges.  

 While I don't know the DAC scheduling practices....A lot of schools/conferences play their JV and/or Freshman games on Saturdays.  What happens to them? 

The goal of high school football scheduling isn't to create a great spectator sport (its a nice by product of good football and great community support). I just don't see how this advances the issue you are trying to champion...getting a big region school to LOS. Its a side topic to an interesting conversation about making the DAC football more on par with MIC/HCC/SAC etc.

Respectfully....I've been fortunate to coach in a very good conference on some very successful teams....being over our heads is most assuredly not the issue.  The issue is what allows our entire program to most successful from week to week, and playing our best football in October and November.  I suspect it would be VERY rare to find big school coaching staff who would WANT to play a full afternoon game on a Saturday for a regular season opponent.

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1 hour ago, US31 said:

 While I don't know the DAC scheduling practices....A lot of schools/conferences play their JV and/or Freshman games on Saturdays.  What happens to them? 

The goal of high school football scheduling isn't to create a great spectator sport (its a nice by product of good football and great community support). I just don't see how this advances the issue you are trying to champion...getting a big region school to LOS. Its a side topic to an interesting conversation about making the DAC football more on par with MIC/HCC/SAC etc.

Respectfully....I've been fortunate to coach in a very good conference on some very successful teams....being over our heads is most assuredly not the issue.  The issue is what allows our entire program to most successful from week to week, and playing our best football in October and November.  I suspect it would be VERY rare to find big school coaching staff who would WANT to play a full afternoon game on a Saturday for a regular season opponent.

The primary purpose of the Saturday nuetral site matchup was to reduce travel.  Michigan City has a great facility and is a good halfway meeting point for the outermost schools in the conference.  

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2 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Your entire proposal hinges on Penn and Elkhart becoming new members lol. What incentive does Penn and Elkhart have to join the DAC under your new proposal alignment? The ONLY way the DAC comes out better is IF Penn and Elkhart join. You need to get Penn and Elkhart on board. Your proposal doesn't move the needle for Penn or Ellkhart.

If the DAC wants to remain loyal to its 8 existing members, then conference expansion to 12 teams really doesn't make much sense then does it?

Are you under the perception that Penn and Elkhart have no interest in joining The DAC?

Why would adding 3 state ranked programs to the DAC alienate existing conference members, assuming the goal is to push a DAC school to a  6A state championship?

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24 minutes ago, DT said:

Are you under the perception that Penn and Elkhart have no interest in joining The DAC?

In the DAC's current state? Why would they?

24 minutes ago, DT said:

Why would adding 3 state ranked programs to the DAC alienate existing conference members, assuming the goal is to push a DAC school to a  6A state championship?

Because at 12 members, its not feasibly possible for each school to play each other annually. And with too many dead weight programs currently in the DAC, it eliminates potential scheduling flexibility down the road. A conference consisting of the 12 schools you mentioned doesn't prepare the best 6A teams (in the DAC) for a state title run. The caliber of opponent is severely lacking. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that? A super DAC conference hinders schools like Merrillville, Penn, and Elkhart due to lack of weekly competition. 

Edited by Footballking16
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Does anyone think that the NIC is the best fit for Elkhart and Penn now?

Maybe all the 6a DAC along with Elkhart, Penn, and Warsaw make a new conference.

Then Marian, St. Joe, and Jimtown join the NLC.  Glenn and New Prairie can go with their old NSC teams.

Could be the best for everyone

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20 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Does anyone think that the NIC is the best fit for Elkhart and Penn now?

Maybe all the 6a DAC along with Elkhart, Penn, and Warsaw make a new conference.

Then Marian, St. Joe, and Jimtown join the NLC.  Glenn and New Prairie can go with their old NSC teams.

Could be the best for everyone

Warsaw in a conference with Lake Central and Crown Point?  Cmon dude

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45 minutes ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Does anyone think that the NIC is the best fit for Elkhart and Penn now?

Maybe all the 6a DAC along with Elkhart, Penn, and Warsaw make a new conference.

Then Marian, St. Joe, and Jimtown join the NLC.  Glenn and New Prairie can go with their old NSC teams.

Could be the best for everyone

If Penn and Elkhart stay away from the DAC (not so sure they’re even considering it despite an ongoing a thread) a new conference of:

Penn

Elkhart

Warsaw

Snider

Homestead

Carroll

Dwenger??

makes a ton of sense. Would instantly become the premier big class conference in Northern Indiana.

Edited by Footballking16
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Posted (edited)

First the Cathedral guy wants to chime in on poverty and now he wants to play resident expert on conference affiliation/scheduling?

Man, 2021 is just as wild as 2020 was...

Edited by temptation
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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, temptation said:

First the Cathedral guy wants to chime in on poverty and now he wants to play resident expert on conference affiliation/scheduling?

Man, 2021 is just as wild as 2020 was...

Yawn.

Edited by Footballking16
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12 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Does anyone think that the NIC is the best fit for Elkhart and Penn now?

Maybe all the 6a DAC along with Elkhart, Penn, and Warsaw make a new conference.

Then Marian, St. Joe, and Jimtown join the NLC.  Glenn and New Prairie can go with their old NSC teams.

Could be the best for everyone

I don't think the old NSC teams want anything to do with Glenn and New Prairie. If they did the conference would never of disbanded.

 

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9 minutes ago, MarshallCounty said:

I don't think the old NSC teams want anything to do with Glenn and New Prairie. If they did the conference would never of disbanded.

 

I agree with that and think the old NSC teams have made a pretty clean break.   As for the DAC, the time zone issue is a thing and we all must remember football is just one of may sports to be considered.

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21 hours ago, Footballking16 said:

Your entire proposal hinges on Penn and Elkhart becoming new members lol. What incentive does Penn and Elkhart have to join the DAC under your new proposal alignment? The ONLY way the DAC comes out better is IF Penn and Elkhart join. You need to get Penn and Elkhart on board. Your proposal doesn't move the needle for Penn or Ellkhart.

If the DAC wants to remain loyal to its 8 existing members, then conference expansion to 12 teams really doesn't make much sense then does it?

Or if the DAC does need to expand, although I don't think it does, they could stay local by adding teams such as Hammond Central, Hobart, Lowell, and Munster.

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14 hours ago, LaSalle Lions 1976 said:

Does anyone think that the NIC is the best fit for Elkhart and Penn now?

Maybe all the 6a DAC along with Elkhart, Penn, and Warsaw make a new conference.

Then Marian, St. Joe, and Jimtown join the NLC.  Glenn and New Prairie can go with their old NSC teams.

Could be the best for everyone

This....people that aren't familiar with North Central Indiana don't realize what a Frankenstein's monster the NIC has become.  Penn and Elkhart really don't "fit" anymore.  I think several members of the current NIC would welcome a move by P & E to the DAC. 

Here...I'll start the hashtag #PandE2DAC

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