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Top Public Programs by Class - The Best of the Best


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5 hours ago, Bobref said:

I understand the thought, but don’t agree with it. As a sports society, we have become so enamored of championships, that we tend to view anything short of that as a failure. Every year there are 6 champs — and over 300 non-champs. Championships are, in many ways, a crap shoot. Injuries, travel, weather, a lot of things can affect the ability to win a championship. I don’t think you meant it that way, but too many people have the “Ricky Bobby” mentality of “2nd place is just the first loser.” At the high school level at least, there is so much more to it than that.

Thank u and I concur

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On 6/13/2021 at 9:56 AM, DT said:

I deducted points from Pioneer due to poor facilities.  

Adams Central has one of the nicest grass fields regardless of class (do 4a and above have grass anymore??) in the state. We played there in the 2016 1A Semistate and after 14 weeks of games it was still beautiful. I would take a nice grass field over turf any day.

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1 hour ago, DT said:

I have great respect for Snider, one of the blue blood histroic programs in Indiana High School Football.  5 years ago I would have had them at #1.  I think we all see some program slippage at Snider, and the facilities issue is a longer term challenge.  

This is true. The past few years have seen some teams derailed due to kids being kids which usually didn't hurt as much..student athletes have to uphold the standards set before them n im sure every team goes through that. These next few years will be telling...those $200 handshakes could helps with facility upgrades if tippy n ziembo play their cards right 😁..dwenger was able to elevate their campus and maybe Snider could do the same. At one point I was told parking would be an issue..you don't build a stadium due to parking concerns??? Redo the whole setup n remodel the weight rooms again n boom..right on track..now if anyone could only get ahold of mr Woodson we'd be all set!

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1 hour ago, Justasportsfan said:

This is true. The past few years have seen some teams derailed due to kids being kids which usually didn't hurt as much..student athletes have to uphold the standards set before them n im sure every team goes through that. These next few years will be telling...those $200 handshakes could helps with facility upgrades if tippy n ziembo play their cards right 😁..dwenger was able to elevate their campus and maybe Snider could do the same. At one point I was told parking would be an issue..you don't build a stadium due to parking concerns??? Redo the whole setup n remodel the weight rooms again n boom..right on track..now if anyone could only get ahold of mr Woodson we'd be all set!

I certainly hope the taxpayers of Fort Wayne are not waiting on Rod Woodson or any other athlete to underwrite a facilities upgrade for their own children.  It is their responsibility to fund these needs and continue to make Fort Wayne a nice place to raise a family.  

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3 hours ago, DT said:

Top 3

Southridge as a 3A or as a 2A? I ask only because you also said this:

2 hours ago, DT said:

Agree

Top 3 

, which made me curious that maybe you saw Southridge and Gibson Southern as both being in the top 3 of 3A.  That would leave out Heritage Hills, who it could argued has had greater overall success in 3A than Gibson Southern and Southridge (historically and in recent years). 

Interesting topic.  

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31 minutes ago, tango said:

Southridge as a 3A or as a 2A? I ask only because you also said this:

, which made me curious that maybe you saw Southridge and Gibson Southern as both being in the top 3 of 3A.  That would leave out Heritage Hills, who it could argued has had greater overall success in 3A than Gibson Southern and Southridge (historically and in recent years). 

Interesting topic.  

I think it's important to look at his criteria:

What makes a high school football program the best, or elite?

In my view, its a combination of the following factors that contribute to overall high level success :

* Consistent, stable coaching staff

* High goal orientation 

* Alignment of feeder system throughout the program at all levels.

* High level of athletic talent in the building

* Multi sport participation encouraged

* Strong administrative support for football

* Top notch facilities

* High level of community support

* Alumni support and involvement

 

My top picks by class :

6A - Center Grove

5A - Zionsville

4A - New Palestine

3A - West Lafayette

2A - Western Boone

1A - Adams Central

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45 minutes ago, DT said:

I certainly hope the taxpayers of Fort Wayne are not waiting on Rod Woodson or any other athlete to underwrite a facilities upgrade for their own children.  

With the construction of Shields Field, Snider is now the only team in Allen County without their own stadium............yet they bring in more football revenue to FWCS than any other team. Not sure how that makes sense. 

Regarding your "slippage" comment, the only thing slipping is enrollment numbers and white collar families. Last year was rough and the year before that was subpar, but they had some darn good teams the four years prior. State champs in 2015. Not sure how they weren't the state champs in 2016. Colossal meltdown against an inferior Carmel team in 2017. And a pretty decent team that lost to the Greyhounds by 17 points in 2018. 

Let's see what happens in 2021 and 2022 before we write them off as a slipping program. My early prediction for this year is a good matchup at semi-state between Snider and Zionsville. The winner of that will have their hands full though. 

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3 hours ago, DT said:

I certainly hope the taxpayers of Fort Wayne are not waiting on Rod Woodson or any other athlete to underwrite a facilities upgrade for their own children.  It is their responsibility to fund these needs and continue to make Fort Wayne a nice place to raise a family.  

sounds so simple yet has yet to be accomplished. The tax payers may believe the status quo reigns true forever..banner program for decades yet no stadium..snider alum, athletes or not,  may be just waiting to cut the check..I know I am😉

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On 6/13/2021 at 4:14 PM, AG said:

Actually the fact that they continue to churn out great teams, despite having poor facilities, should give them some bonus points, if anything.

That might be your best post ever Andy. I swear to God it is!

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On 6/14/2021 at 12:32 PM, FarmerFran said:

Adams Central has one of the nicest grass fields regardless of class (do 4a and above have grass anymore??) in the state. We played there in the 2016 1A Semistate and after 14 weeks of games it was still beautiful. I would take a nice grass field over turf any day.

The great monsoon semistate of 2016! Most miserable weather conditions I've ever experienced for a sporting event!

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On 6/16/2021 at 10:31 AM, FlyingHigh said:

The great monsoon semistate of 2016! Most miserable weather conditions I've ever experienced for a sporting event!

I'll take the blame for that one! During our Regional game at Southwood I made the comment that I hoped a monsoon hit next week if we won (hoping LCC was going to win vs Pioneer). It was pretty nice until that nasty storm blew in. It went from seasonable and dry to monsoon and cold. I remember being numb as I was soaked through even with some rain gear and freezing cold. Still think about how a game vs LCC who passed a ton would have played out in those conditions. 

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On 6/13/2021 at 9:00 AM, DT said:

What makes a high school football program the best, or elite?

In my view, its a combination of the following factors that contribute to overall high level success :

* Consistent, stable coaching staff

* High goal orientation 

* Alignment of feeder system throughout the program at all levels.

* High level of athletic talent in the building

* Multi sport participation encouraged

* Strong administrative support for football

* Top notch facilities

* High level of community support

* Alumni support and involvement

Warsaw is certainly TRYING to get up in 6A, especailly when it comes to the factors you listed above. Just need to see the results continue to increase on the field! A Hall of Fame head coach, high goals (certainly exhibited by recent scheduling updates), and excellent alignment from the Young Tiger football program and middle school programs. Add to it the new fieldhouse they have at the high school, facilities and administrative support is obvious.

Only thing missing at times is the talent in the building, and IMO multisport participation seems to have decreased in recent years. Back in the early 2000s, the basketball, wrestling, baseball and track & field teams were dominated by football players. These days, it does not feel as prominent (I could certainly be wrong here as it is an observation and not based on statistics).

In the right year, I truly believe Warsaw could win a Regional title within the next 5 years, but it will take a special group of kids. Will they ever actually compete to represent 6A Norh at Lucas Oil? That might be too tall a task, but I hope I am wrong at some point in my lifetime!

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Warsaw is certainly TRYING to get up in 6A, especailly when it comes to the factors you listed above. Just need to see the results continue to increase on the field! A Hall of Fame head coach, high goals (certainly exhibited by recent scheduling updates), and excellent alignment from the Young Tiger football program and middle school programs. Add to it the new fieldhouse they have at the high school, facilities and administrative support is obvious.

Only thing missing at times is the talent in the building, and IMO multisport participation seems to have decreased in recent years. Back in the early 2000s, the basketball, wrestling, baseball and track & field teams were dominated by football players. These days, it does not feel as prominent (I could certainly be wrong here as it is an observation and not based on statistics).

In the right year, I truly believe Warsaw could win a Regional title within the next 5 years, but it will take a special group of kids. Will they ever actually compete to represent 6A Norh at Lucas Oil? That might be too tall a task, but I hope I am wrong at some point in my lifetime!

The weak conference schedule is going to hold the Warsaw program back.  The NLC schools, with the exception of newcomer Mishawaka, have fallen back.  Coach C is doing what he can to beef up the non con schedule, buts its just one game, and it comes early in the season, not when it is needed to prep for the tournament.  Warsaw has a hard ceiling on its program, unless it falls into 5A at some point in the future.

Ive suggested the IHSAA reclass 6A to Top 24 schools.  That would push Warsaw into 5A, where they become a state title contender.

 

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2 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said:

Warsaw is certainly TRYING to get up in 6A, especailly when it comes to the factors you listed above. Just need to see the results continue to increase on the field! A Hall of Fame head coach, high goals (certainly exhibited by recent scheduling updates), and excellent alignment from the Young Tiger football program and middle school programs. Add to it the new fieldhouse they have at the high school, facilities and administrative support is obvious.

Only thing missing at times is the talent in the building, and IMO multisport participation seems to have decreased in recent years. Back in the early 2000s, the basketball, wrestling, baseball and track & field teams were dominated by football players. These days, it does not feel as prominent (I could certainly be wrong here as it is an observation and not based on statistics).

In the right year, I truly believe Warsaw could win a Regional title within the next 5 years, but it will take a special group of kids. Will they ever actually compete to represent 6A Norh at Lucas Oil? That might be too tall a task, but I hope I am wrong at some point in my lifetime!

I've got my money on the Tigers. Regional title within the next three years. State representative within the next five? I think it's possible. Westfield doesn't have the north in their back pocket by any means. 

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

I've got my money on the Tigers. Regional title within the next three years. State representative within the next five? I think it's possible. Westfield doesn't have the north in their back pocket by any means. 

We will see... Merrillville, Penn, Elkhart, Carroll, Homestead, Lafayette Jeff, Westfield and CARMEL (when/if they are in the north) and Snider (when/if they are in 6A) are all programs I would put ahead of or at the same level of Warsaw right now in 6A North. Obviously Carmel is head and shoulders above all programs in 6A North. If they stay south, there are 8-10 of those teams that will wrestle for that representative spot year in and year out.

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1 hour ago, BTF said:

I've got my money on the Tigers. Regional title within the next three years. State representative within the next five? I think it's possible. Westfield doesn't have the north in their back pocket by any means. 

Until Cathedral gets bumped to 6A and Carmel moves back north. 

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1 hour ago, Footballking16 said:

Until Cathedral gets bumped to 6A and Carmel moves back north. 

With an enrollment of 5000 students, the Greyhounds will ALWAYS be the favorite up north.

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