Jump to content
Head Coach Openings 2024 ×
  • Current Donation Goals

    • Raised $2,716 of $3,600 target

Hoosier High School Football - Class 4A Pre Season Dandy Dozen


Guest DT

Recommended Posts

On 6/27/2021 at 8:19 PM, DT said:

Fact is , 4A North is very weak.

 

When your state championship representative gets run off the field by 6 touchdowns , youve got problems with your bracket strength.

 

f

Public school - private school.

If Chatard was in 3A, 3A in the north would be weak, too..right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/25/2021 at 6:22 PM, oldtimeqb said:

I will rephrase my tongue-in-cheek comment. One P/P team will eliminated quickly from the tournament, which I think is the IHSAA’s intent.

The unintended consequences like you have mentioned are why I agree it would be a bad thing for football in the state. 

As it is, Chatard must win sectional in 2021 and 2022 or win a regional in one of those years or they would return to 3A. 

Count me a fellow conspiracist as well simply applying Occam's Razor.   Heck....I was (apparently)right about the aliens too. 

 https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/pentagon-ufo-report-what-we-know.html

Edited by Lysander
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Public school - private school.

If Chatard was in 3A, 3A in the north would be weak, too..right?

3A in the North last year (2020) at the very top was doubtlessly better than 4A or 5A  (and would have competed with Westfield in the 6A North Championship based on the clear Chatard victory v. Merrillville)......VERY arguably 3A was better than 4A overall. 

Still, depends whether you look at class overall or just the top couple of teams in each class. 

Chatard is likely going to take its lumps this year as a 3A school playing a Top 10 schedule (please check their schedule for any doubters). 

If they win against Roncalli EITHER game it will be a minor miracle.

Roncalli is a Top 5 Team all Classes this year.  Elsewhere I read of 5-6 D1 players for Roncalli (it appears they are quite DISTANTLY approaching the annual Cathedral numbers of D1 players...yet still somehow still falling short of the 8-9, seemingly annual, D1 players for the Cathedral squad who somehow always seem to always struggle to  "DO MORE WITH LESS"...say a prayer for the Cathedral folk).

I'm not sure Chatard has EVER has ever peaked at more than 2 D1 players at any given time....perhaps twice in 30 years.  

Just poor Catholic CYO kids trying to get by....seemingly headed on an express train back to 3A.

Thanks IHSAA for the expected pairings.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Lysander said:

3A in the North last year (2020) at the very top was doubtlessly better than 4A or 5A  (and would have competed with Westfield in the 6A North Championship based on the clear Chatard victory v. Merrillville)......VERY arguably 3A was better than 4A overall. 

Still, depends whether you look at class overall or just the top couple of teams in each class. 

Chatard is likely going to take its lumps this year as a 3A school playing a Top 10 schedule (please check their schedule for any doubters). 

If they win against Roncalli EITHER game it will be a minor miracle.

Roncalli is a Top 5 Team all Classes this year.  Elsewhere I read of 5-6 D1 players for Roncalli (it appears they are quite DISTANTLY approaching the annual Cathedral numbers of D1 players...yet still somehow still falling short of the 8-9, seemingly annual, D1 players for the Cathedral squad who somehow always seem to always struggle to  "DO MORE WITH LESS"...say a prayer for the Cathedral folk).

I'm not sure Chatard has EVER has ever peaked at more than 2 D1 players at any given time....perhaps twice in 30 years.  

Just poor Catholic CYO kids trying to get by....seemingly headed on an express train back to 3A.

Thanks IHSAA for the expected pairings.

Chatard has the option to petition the IHSAA to remain in 4A   Reference the Mishawaka precedent

At this point in Chatards glorious history, shouldnt quality (4A blue ring) outshine quantity (3A blue ring)?

As high school freshman, many Chatard kids are honing their skills at specific positions, running complex offensive and defensive schemes, and working on speed and strength development.

As high school freshman, many public school kids are learning a 3 point stance and how to stand up straight in a huddle.

Lets not lose too much sleep over the perceived challenges facing the power privates.  Its a mirage.  Always has been.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by DT
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DT said:

Chatard has the option to petition the IHSAA to remain in 4A   Reference the Mishawaka precedent

Mishawka petitioned to remain in 5A as the SF had not run its full cycle and 5A was watered down due to the IHSAA implementing a 6th class. The route to a state final in 5A was easier than in 4A. Nothing noble about it.

1 hour ago, DT said:

At this point in Chatards glorious history, shouldnt quality (4A blue ring) outshine quantity (3A blue ring)?

Due to the SF, 4A has consistently been the "weakest" class top to bottom as many traditional powers (Cathedral and Dwenger) are playing up a class, sometimes two, as has newcomer New Palestine from their true classification. Chatard's path to a state title last year was much tougher than Roncalli's, not to mention the 3A champ beat the 4A champ by 3 TD's earlier in the year. 

 

1 hour ago, DT said:

As high school freshman, many Chatard kids are honing their skills at specific positions, running complex offensive and defensive schemes, and working on speed and strength development.

As high school freshman, many public school kids are learning a 3 point stance and how to stand up straight in a huddle.

Irrelevant really. Chatard will play more P/P's in the state tournament as a 3A school (and better ones) than they would in 4A, especially with Roncalli bumping up a class. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, DT said:

Chatard has the option to petition the IHSAA to remain in 4A   Reference the Mishawaka precedent

At this point in Chatards glorious history, shouldnt quality (4A blue ring) outshine quantity (3A blue ring)?

As high school freshman, many Chatard kids are honing their skills at specific positions, running complex offensive and defensive schemes, and working on speed and strength development.

As high school freshman, many public school kids are learning a 3 point stance and how to stand up straight in a huddle.

Lets not lose too much sleep over the perceived challenges facing the power privates.  Its a mirage.  Always has been.

 

 

 

 

 

The actual reality is that 3A has been the power class (“pound for pound” as they say) and where the competition could be found for the last several years since almost all the noteworthy 4A teams moved up in the prior best class (“pound for pound”).

Chatard’s last 2 teams could well possibly have “clawed and scraped UNBOWED ” (important words, btw) into the State Championship in most ANY class.  

But, they are what they are…a bunch of disparate, EXTREMELY disciplined North Side CYO kids who didn’t succumb to the Cathedral All-Star BS and decided to stand on their own two feet and be their own person.  

They outplayed a loaded (5-12 D1 players depending on any given “”expert” pounding their chest about their greatness) Merrillville team quite handily and even seemed to even appear more athletic (they weren’t…by most any measure).

To be clear, this is a school with 300-325 boys in total.  They are not ALL football players by a long stretch yet they ranked 6th All Classes last year in 2020 (and, frankly, we’re a lot better in 2019).  Carmel literally has 3,000 boys.

I’m damn proud of these kids and although this might be a bit of a rebuilding year they might well shock the world just like last year.  

Who’s to say.?

They owe no apologies


 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Lysander said:

The actual reality is that 3A has been the power class (“pound for pound” as they say) and where the competition could be found for the last several years since almost all the noteworthy 4A teams moved up in the prior best class (“pound for pound”).

Chatard’s last 2 teams could well possibly have “clawed and scraped UNBOWED ” (important words, btw) into the State Championship in most ANY class.  

But, they are what they are…a bunch of disparate, EXTREMELY disciplined North Side CYO kids who didn’t succumb to the Cathedral All-Star BS and decided to stand on their own two feet and be their own person.  

They outplayed a loaded (5-12 D1 players depending on any given “”expert” pounding their chest about their greatness) Merrillville team quite handily and even seemed to even appear more athletic (they weren’t…by most any measure).

To be clear, this is a school with 300-325 boys in total.  They are not ALL football players by a long stretch yet they ranked 6th All Classes last year in 2020 (and, frankly, we’re a lot better in 2019).  Carmel literally has 3,000 boys.

I’m damn proud of these kids and although this might be a bit of a rebuilding year they might well shock the world just like last year.  

Who’s to say.?

They owe no apologies


 

Are we actually "defending" Chatard?

Thats like defending the USA National Basketball Team on a tour of African countries.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, DT said:

Are we actually "defending" Chatard?

Thats like defending the USA National Basketball Team on a tour of African countries.

 

 

I'm not sure defending is the right word, more like putting you in your place. Chatard will play anybody, anywhere, anytime and a lot of times beat you. Has been that way for at least two decades. There's zero advantage or gain for Chatard to petition to remain in 4A when they face stiffer competition in the 3A tournament than they would in 4A in most years. 

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I'm not sure defending is the right word, more like putting you in your place. Chatard will play anybody, anywhere, anytime and a lot of times beat you. Has been that way for at least two decades. There's zero advantage or gain for Chatard to petition to remain in 4A when they face stiffer competition in the 3A tournament than they would in 4A in most years. 

Over time, the higher class will provide the better competition.  I absolutely believe that.

If you really think Bart Curtis moved Mishawaka up to 5A so he could run away from 4A, then youve got other issues.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

I'm not sure defending is the right word, more like putting you in your place. Chatard will play anybody, anywhere, anytime and a lot of times beat you. Has been that way for at least two decades. There's zero advantage or gain for Chatard to petition to remain in 4A when they face stiffer competition in the 3A tournament than they would in 4A in most years. 

4A was clearly the best class (again “pound for pound”) prior to the Success Factor as Cathedral, Columbus East and New Palestine have made ABUNDANTLY clear in dominating a terribly (and expectedly) sad 5A Class.

I’m happy our kids are in 4A but outside of Roncalli (who will likely end our season as a Top 10-15  team overall), I’m frankly pretty “meh”


 

 

With that (outside of Chatard), I’ve most always been kind of a Gibson Southern guy but worry that they have sold their soul a bit these days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, DT said:

Over time, the higher class will provide the better competition.  I absolutely believe that.

 

Quite honestly, I don’t believe that….yet Roncalli will likely abort Chatard’s post season this year.  4A has been massively diluted overall under the Success Factor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, DT said:

Over time, the higher class will provide the better competition.  I absolutely believe that.

Since the SF was implemented 3A has been a stronger class than 4A by a mile. Don't think anyone can argue otherwise. 4A is as watered down as it gets.

 

17 minutes ago, DT said:

If you really think Bart Curtis moved Mishawaka up to 5A so he could run away from 4A, then youve got other issues.

Never said that. But my point still remains. 4A was stronger than 5A when the IHSAA implemented a 6th class and before the SF had run its first cycle. I see nothing noble about playing lesser competition. Neither does Chatard. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Lysander said:

4A was clearly the best class (again “pound for pound”) prior to the Success Factor as Cathedral, Columbus East and New Palestine have made ABUNDANTLY clear in dominating a terribly (and expectedly) sad 5A Class.

I’m happy our kids are in 4A but outside of Roncalli (who will likely end our season as a Top 10-15  team overall), I’m frankly pretty “meh”


 

 

With that (outside of Chatard), I’ve most always been kind of a Gibson Southern guy but worry that they have sold their soul a bit these days.

New Pal wasn't quite there yet, but Lowell, Dwenger, and Evansville Reitz were all very strong 4A programs right up to the time the SF was implemented so your point is well received. Mishawaka avoided a very strong northern half of the bracket when the IHSAA went to 6 classes. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Footballking16 said:

Since the SF was implemented 3A has been a stronger class than 4A by a mile. Don't think anyone can argue otherwise. 4A is as watered down as it gets.

 

Never said that. But my point still remains. 4A was stronger than 5A when the IHSAA implemented a 6th class and before the SF had run its first cycle. I see nothing noble about playing lesser competition. Neither does Chatard. 

5A was a punching bag for the best 4A teams….  

The IHSAA “built” a class for those (generally wealthy school district) teams that said they could never compete with the likes of Carmel, Warren Central or Ben Davis.   

Needless to say, those 4A schools with ACTUAL football traditions ATE them up.  

BTW, I called this the week it happened….5A was a football wasteland comparatively.

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Lysander said:

5A was a punching bag for the best 4A teams….  

The IHSAA “built” a class for those (generally wealthy school district) teams that said they could never compete with the likes of Carmel, Warren Central or Ben Davis.   

Needless to say, those 4A schools with ACTUAL football traditions ATE them up.  

BTW, I called this the week it happened….5A was a football wasteland comparatively.

 

 

 

 

 

 

That will change when IHSAA reduces Class 6A to 24 schools.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, DT said:

That will change when IHSAA reduces Class 6A to 24 schools.  

So, outside of Snider, does School #25 and down have a passing acquaintance with football?

None of the teams in the original 5A seemed to.

Edited by Lysander
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, DT said:

Are we actually "defending" Chatard?

Thats like defending the USA National Basketball Team on a tour of African countries.

 

 

Chatard is arguably one of the most unique “animals” in the state….seriously.  The President (I think that his title) is Bill Sahm who graduated from Cathedral and played football for Notre Dame.   I did business with for Bill  for 15-20 years before he stepped into his role at Chatard.  Bill’s word was his total bond as I learned over some years.when dealing with him in the private sector.  Not that it matters, but Sahm Park in Indy is named after his dad (who passed quite young).

I expect he took a massive pay cut (rather he was on a “mission”) to rebuild and revive Chatard.  My belief is that he is a man on a selfless mission.

With that, Chatard has had the blessing of some special coaches.  My kids played for Coach Lorenzano (“L”) and love him dearly….as do our family….arguably one of the most successful coaches in Indiana HS Football history.  Coach “L” is the MAN in our house.

That said, we have another businessman (actually, an attorney) at the helm of Chatard’s football program.  Rob Doyle is a partner in a law firm bearing his moniker and, I believe, he is in the Hall of Fame at both Andrean HS and Depauw U at Quarterback.  

Coach Doyle has transformed the Chatard offense into something unrecognizable to some of us and has ended up winning 2 State Championships over 4 years in the process.

I actually think Bill Sahm and Rob Doyle’s might surprise you with a call to thrm

 

Edited by Lysander
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Chatard is arguably one of the most unique “animals” in the state….seriously.  The President (I think that his title) is Bill Sahm who graduated from Cathedral and played football for Notre Dame.   I did business with for Bill  for 15-20 years before he stepped into his role at Chatard.  Bill’s word was his total bond as I learned over some years.when dealing with him in the private sector.  Not that it matters, but Sahm Park in Indy is named after his dad (who passed quite young).

I expect he took a massive pay cut (rather he was on a “mission”) to rebuild and revive Chatard.  My belief is that he is a man on a selfless mission.

With that, Chatard has had the blessing of some special coaches.  My kids played for Coach Lorenzano (“L”) and love him dearly….as do our family….arguably one of the most successful coaches in Indiana HS Football history.  Coach “L” is the MAN in our house.

That said, we have another businessman (actually, an attorney) at the helm of Chatard’s football program.  Rob Doyle is a partner in a law firm bearing his moniker and, I believe, he is in the Hall of Fame at both Andrean HS and Depauw U at Quarterback.  

Coach Doyle has transformed the Chatard offense into something unrecognizable to some of us and has ended up winning 2 State Championships over 4 years in the process.

I actually think Bill Sahm and Rob Doyle’s might surprise you with a call to thrm

Bryan,

Love this.  Servant attitude is ALWAYS best!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Lysander said:

Chatard is arguably one of the most unique “animals” in the state….seriously.  The President (I think that his title) is Bill Sahm who graduated from Cathedral and played football for Notre Dame.   I did business with for Bill  for 15-20 years before he stepped into his role at Chatard.  Bill’s word was his total bond as I learned over some years.when dealing with him in the private sector.  Not that it matters, but Sahm Park in Indy is named after his dad (who passed quite young).

I expect he took a massive pay cut (rather he was on a “mission”) to rebuild and revive Chatard.  My belief is that he is a man on a selfless mission.

With that, Chatard has had the blessing of some special coaches.  My kids played for Coach Lorenzano (“L”) and love him dearly….as do our family….arguably one of the most successful coaches in Indiana HS Football history.  Coach “L” is the MAN in our house.

That said, we have another businessman (actually, an attorney) at the helm of Chatard’s football program.  Rob Doyle is a partner in a law firm bearing his moniker and, I believe, he is in the Hall of Fame at both Andrean HS and Depauw U at Quarterback.  

Coach Doyle has transformed the Chatard offense into something unrecognizable to some of us and has ended up winning 2 State Championships over 4 years in the process.

I actually think Bill Sahm and Rob Doyle’s might surprise you with a call to thrm

 

Sounds like an interview request

 

Talk about a selfless mission

 

LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, DT said:

Sounds like an interview request

 

Talk about a selfless mission

 

LOL

If you want to talk to me about the sale, leasing and disposition of office buildings then I guess you somehow (apparently) have an “interview request”.  

With that, I have no interest in discussing it.  I made that money years..even decades ago.  

I barely want to talk with my better half, why in God’s name do you think I would want an interview with you?

Really not following your point.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, Lysander said:

I barely want to talk with my better half, why in God’s name do you think I would want an interview with you?

Because your legion of followers on the GID hangs on your every word? 😆😂

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Lysander said:

If you want to talk to me about the sale, leasing and disposition of office buildings then I guess you somehow (apparently) have an “interview request”.  

With that, I have no interest in discussing it.  I made that money years..even decades ago.  

I barely want to talk with my better half, why in God’s name do you think I would want an interview with you?

Really not following your point.

 

 

I was referencing a possible interview with the esteemed Chatard Head Football Coach.

2 hours ago, DE said:

Facts. We love Ly!  

 

3 hours ago, Bobref said:

Because your legion of followers on the GID hangs on your every word? 😆😂

There is no legion here.  Its more like a squad or a platoon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/30/2021 at 7:46 AM, Lysander said:

4A was clearly the best class (again “pound for pound”) prior to the Success Factor as Cathedral, Columbus East and New Palestine have made ABUNDANTLY clear in dominating a terribly (and expectedly) sad 5A Class.

I’m happy our kids are in 4A but outside of Roncalli (who will likely end our season as a Top 10-15  team overall), I’m frankly pretty “meh”


 

 

With that (outside of Chatard), I’ve most always been kind of a Gibson Southern guy but worry that they have sold their soul a bit these days.

Still working hard my friend!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...