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Indiana Catholic Football Needs a Governor to Regulate Out of Control Football Dominance


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3 hours ago, DT said:

Conference Indiana - Circle City alliance

3 hours ago, DT said:

Faced with the possibility of a scheduling boycott

I've not seen any hint of that being discussed on here by anyone from those schools. Maybe I missed it.  For the five public schools from the EVSC in the SIAC, not having the two Catholic schools on the schedules (in all the gate sports) would be a big hit to the athletic department budgets. I don't see it happening. 

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4 hours ago, DT said:

Conference Indiana - Circle City alliance

I shudder to think that Conference Indiana might not want to come out and play the CCC 3A and 4A teams.    How terrible….

Edited by Lysander
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56 minutes ago, tango said:

I've not seen any hint of that being discussed on here by anyone from those schools. Maybe I missed it.  For the five public schools from the EVSC in the SIAC, not having the two Catholic schools on the schedules (in all the gate sports) would be a big hit to the athletic department budgets. I don't see it happening. 

As Ive stated here before, I believe that the relationship between public and private in the SIAC is the best and most congenial in the state.  

The Evansville PPs would have an impossible time filling out a schedule without their conference mates.  They really have no other options.  

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3 hours ago, MHSTigerFan said:

And for those who don’t?  Because there will be plenty who don’t.

I know the PTBs at Memorial and MD well and I’m very confident that neither would willingly agree to a class bump that isn’t tethered to performance in the affected sports.  They gripe about SF as it is…imagine if they’re asked to step up in class regardless how their teams do?  Not gonna happen.

And how could anybody even begin to think it justified for tiny 1A PPs like Rivet and Washington Catholic?  Those schools struggle to field athletic teams at all.

Why would Memorial gripe about the SF?  

Coach seems ok with it

Taken from John Hurley interview

Question 4 :The Success Factor is an issue that impacts some schools significantly and others not at all. Memorial is right in the mix based on your great success and the fact that your enrollment can fluctuate and impact your class designation. What are your overall thoughts on the SF, and do you feel that it has positively impacted its intended purpose, which was to help maintain competitive balance. Also, what are your thoughts on being in Class 4A as it relates to regular season and post season preparation?
Response
The success factor was set up to maintain a competitive balance, and for the most part, it does. The days of programs winning 6 out of 10 state championships is very unlikely. We currently are playing 4a with an enrollment of 550.
When we were in 3a we only played one sectional opponent a year. In 4a we play 4 sectional opponents during the season. Tough to play teams multiple times.

 

 

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1 hour ago, DT said:

Why would Memorial gripe about the SF?  

I wouldn't characterize any of the comments from our tenacious TigerFan (or my questions) as griping about the SF, but you're asking for a voluntary bump for all p/p schools, regardless of the whether they've had any success or not.  

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1 hour ago, tango said:

I wouldn't characterize any of the comments from our tenacious TigerFan (or my questions) as griping about the SF, but you're asking for a voluntary bump for all p/p schools, regardless of the whether they've had any success or not.  

His piece doesn’t say anything about the PP bump being voluntary.  I’ve suggested that it would have to be in order to survive a certain lawsuit.

Bumping all PPs, regardless of their degree of success, would almost certainly be unlawful.

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51 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

His piece doesn’t say anything about the PP bump being voluntary.  I’ve suggested that it would have to be in order to survive a certain lawsuit.

Bumping all PPs, regardless of their degree of success, would almost certainly be unlawful.

But it has been accepted in other states.

I honestly cant think of a single PP outside of Noll that would struggle with a one class bump.  Frankly, the bump might unleash a flurry of legal recruiting as the PPs "build up" to compete at the new level.  

 

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1 hour ago, DT said:

But it has been accepted in other states.

I honestly cant think of a single PP outside of Noll that would struggle with a one class bump.  Frankly, the bump might unleash a flurry of legal recruiting as the PPs "build up" to compete at the new level.  

 

As has already been pointed out, Illinois’ “bump” has performance based waivers.  It’s basically the SF in reverse.

Also, we have a couple of 1A PPs (Rivet and WashCath) down here that have fewer than 100 students.  You’d really throw them into 2A…because they’re Catholic?

Good luck with this bad idea.

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2 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

As has already been pointed out, Illinois’ “bump” has performance based waivers.  It’s basically the SF in reverse.

Also, we have a couple of 1A PPs (Rivet and WashCath) down here that have fewer than 100 students.  You’d really throw them into 2A…because they’re Catholic?

Good luck with this bad idea.

Those schools dont play football

3 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

As has already been pointed out, Illinois’ “bump” has performance based waivers.  It’s basically the SF in reverse.

Also, we have a couple of 1A PPs (Rivet and WashCath) down here that have fewer than 100 students.  You’d really throw them into 2A…because they’re Catholic?

Good luck with this bad idea.

Very good chance we will see a 5 class PP sweep this year.  That will begin the push for the new proposal

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10 hours ago, DT said:

Conference Indiana - Circle City alliance

Serious question, just why in the world would Conference Indiana which is composed of two 6A and four 5A teams care whether the three 3A and one 4A teams in the Circle City Conference move up a class?  

Would it somehow make them feel less humiliated to be 7-17 (5 of those 7 Conference Indiana wins being against the Marsh Roncalli teams) v. smaller CCC teams if they could observe the fiction that those generally perfunctory beatings were NOW coming from three 4A teams and one 5A team?

I’m calling BS on your allegation that the CI is threatening to not play the CCC teams because they want “Catholics” to move up a class. 

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43 minutes ago, Lysander said:

That, Sir, is genius.  
 

There needs to be a Calvinist team.

But there would be no need for them to play the season knowing the outcome already, right? 😀

 

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3 minutes ago, foxbat said:

But there would be no need for them to play the season knowing the outcome already, right? 😀

 

I just assumed they “elected” not to play football.

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7 minutes ago, foxbat said:

But there would be no need for them to play the season knowing the outcome already, right? 😀

 

My thoughts exactly.  Vegas would never lay odds on a Calvinist team.  The results are predetermined. LOL  

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4 hours ago, MHSTigerFan said:

His piece doesn’t say anything about the PP bump being voluntary.  I’ve suggested that it would have to be in order to survive a certain lawsuit.

Bumping all PPs, regardless of their degree of success, would almost certainly be unlawful.

Perceived “unlawfulness” aside....is that all that would hold you back?  Let’s pretend for a moment the IHSAA would take that bet, what other objection would you have? I think you’re too smart not to see the enrollment type disparities, so what’s left?  I mean the public’s can only bend over the table with Vaseline in hand for so long.  

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4 minutes ago, Titan32 said:

Perceived “unlawfulness” aside....is that all that would hold you back?  Let’s pretend for a moment the IHSAA would take that bet, what other objection would you have? I think you’re too smart not to see the enrollment type disparities, so what’s left?  I mean the public’s can only bend over the table with Vaseline in hand for so long.  

I’m predisposed to disfavor anything that is meant to bring about more equal outcomes.  I’m not even crazy about the idea of classes.  But given football is so based on numbers, it’s about the only sport where it makes some sense.  Other than that, I’d do away with classes in all other sports.  It makes sense that we had classes in football, and only football, for many years.

So I didn’t have any more sympathy for small schools (including my own) clamoring for multi-class basketball back when that happened.  I badly miss the single-class hoops tournament.  It was a great, great thing — done in by people who wanted to see the success spread around.

I mean, my alma mater isn’t nearly as successful as fellow 3Aer Chatard has been - and Dwenger and Cathedral before they moved up.  But it would never have occurred to me to push for rules to get them out of our way so we could have a better chance of a championship.

I encounter a lot of people with this mindset, and not only in sports.  And I have pretty much no respect for it in any context.  It’s a mindset for losers.

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7 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

I’m predisposed to disfavor anything that is meant to bring about more equal outcomes.  I’m not even crazy about the idea of classes.  But given football is so based on numbers, it’s about the only sport where it makes some sense.  Other than that, I’d do away with classes in all other sports.  It makes sense that we had classes in football, and only football, for many years.

So I didn’t have any more sympathy for small schools (including my own) clamoring for multi-class basketball back when that happened.  I badly miss the single-class hoops tournament.  It was a great, great thing — done in by people who wanted to see the success spread around.

I mean, my alma mater isn’t nearly as successful as fellow 3Aer Chatard has been - and Dwenger and Cathedral before they moved up.  But it would never have occurred to me to push for rules to get them out of our way so we could have a better chance of a championship.

I encounter a lot of people with this mindset, and not only in sports.  And I have pretty much no respect for it in any context.  It’s a mindset for losers.

Putting it in the wrestling context - I absolutely loved it when tiny Mater Dei dominated single-class wrestling in the state.  Not because they’re in EVV or because they’re Catholic.  But because their wrestling program has long been the epitome of what a well-run sports program should look like.  Our west-siders live and breathe wrestling from the time they’re little kids.  And for many years, they dominated the sport regardless of enrollment.

Knocking they down to a lower class, having any classes, diminished their success.  And I didn’t like it.

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9 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

Putting it in the wrestling context - I absolutely loved it when tiny Mater Dei dominated single-class wrestling in the state.  Not because they’re in EVV or because they’re Catholic.  But because their wrestling program has long been the epitome of what a well-run sports program should look like.  Our west-siders live and breathe wrestling from the time they’re little kids.  And for many years, they dominated the sport regardless of enrollment.

Knocking they down to a lower class, having any classes, diminished their success.  And I didn’t like it.

There still are no classes in wrestling. Mater Dei has a cool gym to watch a wrestling tournament in and they are a class act as a team. I'll miss going to the Frosh/Soph qualifier there next year. Although this year I had to watch from a hotel room while my son wrestled, it was still cool.

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On 8/13/2021 at 5:27 PM, foxbat said:

The milk bottle and ball-peen hammer was always the reference that stuck with me ... always made me cringe and the hair on my neck stand up just thinking about that sound.

How many of you have had milk delivered in a milk bottle/ a bit off topic.

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On 8/13/2021 at 6:27 PM, foxbat said:

The milk bottle and ball-peen hammer was always the reference that stuck with me

I wonder if that makes the same sound as the windshield on a '96 Monte Carlo? Oops, sorry, wrong Forum

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6 hours ago, gonzoron said:

There still are no classes in wrestling. Mater Dei has a cool gym to watch a wrestling tournament in and they are a class act as a team. I'll miss going to the Frosh/Soph qualifier there next year. Although this year I had to watch from a hotel room while my son wrestled, it was still cool.

Ha…anybody care for eggs this morning?  Just grab some right off my face here.  Got plenty.

Shows you how much I follow wrestling.

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16 minutes ago, MHSTigerFan said:

Ha…anybody care for eggs this morning?  Just grab some right off my face here.  Got plenty.

Shows you how much I follow wrestling.

Not so fast. They do hold a team state tournament every year that classes the teams. Very nice tournament and pretty exciting. 
This is not an IHSAA event. But includes teams from all over the state that qualify.  

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