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Talcum Powder?


Bobref
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It seems the latest thing is for the students to bring talcum powder to the game, and when the team scores for the first time, they let loose a big cloud of white dust. Only thing is that the stuff hangs in the air and takes a while to dissipate. The Lake Central — Munster game was held up for 5 minutes Friday because visibility was so poor on the field.

A word of warning: the IHSAA is very aware of this phenomenon. If your students do it, it will earn you a 15 yd. penalty right then, and your AD is going to get a call from Asst. Commissioner Faulkens that is going to get his work week off to a really lousy start. 

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7 hours ago, Bobref said:

For some reason my “Quote” feature isn’t working.😠 But @oldtimeqb, I have not heard that specific scenario. But I’ve penalized a school because the band wasn’t off the field. And I’ve also seen a few spirited conversations between band directors, coaches and ADs. 🤣

As an aside, if the team is ready to take the field timely, but the field isn’t clear because of the band, it’s a 5 yd. penalty for delay, not 15 yds. for unsportsmanlike conduct. Rule 3-6-4. However, we have specifically been instructed by the IHSAA to treat a “talcum powder delay” as unsportsmanlike conduct.

As a crew chief, I can say I have never been instructed by the IHSAA or any agent of Meridian St how to treat a talcum powder delay.  Have other officials been instructed on the TPD penalty?   IO, has association discussed this?

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1 hour ago, Bobref said:

It seems the latest thing is for the students to bring talcum powder to the game, and when the team scores for the first time, they let loose a big cloud of white dust. Only thing is that the stuff hangs in the air and takes a while to dissipate. The Lake Central — Munster game was held up for 5 minutes Friday because visibility was so poor on the field.

A word of warning: the IHSAA is very aware of this phenomenon. If your students do it, it will earn you a 15 yd. penalty right then, and your AD is going to get a call from Asst. Commissioner Faulkens that is going to get his work week off to a really lousy start. 

If this is the direction from the IHSAA, there needs to be some sort of communication sent out to the crews because I could not imagine throwing a flag for this type of action. This seems to be a game management issue not a referee issue. 

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4 hours ago, Moshiner1345 said:

This seems to be a game management issue not a referee issue. 

Not if it results in a delay in play, it’s not. This comes directly from the top. Penalize it and report it to Mr. Faulkens. I have it on very good authority that the crew on the Munster - LC game somehow got wind that this might be happening, and talked to the LC coach and told him what would happen. A coach then addressed the student section and subsequently told the crew the situation was being “handled.” Turns out, it wasn’t.

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17 hours ago, Bobref said:

Not if it results in a delay in play, it’s not. This comes directly from the top. Penalize it and report it to Mr. Faulkens. I have it on very good authority that the crew on the Munster - LC game somehow got wind that this might be happening, and talked to the LC coach and told him what would happen. A coach then addressed the student section and subsequently told the crew the situation was being “handled.” Turns out, it wasn’t.

A delay in play, but not talcum powder question. 

I heard one time a head coach was irked that the marching band 'refused to yield' the field during their halftime performance and thus the teams could not be back on the playing surface at the 0:00 mark. The coach asked the officials to flag his own school's band 15 yards, so he could address the issue with his AD and Band Director on Monday.

Do you know if this has happened or is probably urban legend?  

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16 minutes ago, oldtimeqb said:

A delay in play, but not talcum powder question. 

I heard one time a head coach was irked that the marching band 'refused to yield' the field during their halftime performance and thus the teams could not be back on the playing surface at the 0:00 mark. The coach asked the officials to flag his own school's band 15 yards, so he could address the issue with his AD and Band Director on Monday.

Do you know if this has happened or is probably urban legend?  

Sweet reference!

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Just how much da** talcum powder was used?  Seen it many times over the years and it never led to visibility being so poor on the field, the game had to be delayed.

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For some reason my “Quote” feature isn’t working.😠 But @oldtimeqb, I have not heard that specific scenario. But I’ve penalized a school because the band wasn’t off the field. And I’ve also seen a few spirited conversations between band directors, coaches and ADs. 🤣

As an aside, if the team is ready to take the field timely, but the field isn’t clear because of the band, it’s a 5 yd. penalty for delay, not 15 yds. for unsportsmanlike conduct. Rule 3-6-4. However, we have specifically been instructed by the IHSAA to treat a “talcum powder delay” as unsportsmanlike conduct.

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58 minutes ago, DE said:

Just how much da** talcum powder was used?  Seen it many times over the years and it never led to visibility being so poor on the field, the game had to be delayed.

Oh, it happens, enough so that the IHSAA was discussing this before the season began. There are other problems with this practice, of course. I’d hate to be a kid with asthma in the middle of that cloud. And under the right conditions, it can hang around for quite a while.

https://youtu.be/7zE-0KlD4y8

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7 hours ago, Bobref said:

For some reason my “Quote” feature isn’t working.😠 But @oldtimeqb, I have not heard that specific scenario. But I’ve penalized a school because the band wasn’t off the field. And I’ve also seen a few spirited conversations between band directors, coaches and ADs. 🤣

As an aside, if the team is ready to take the field timely, but the field isn’t clear because of the band, it’s a 5 yd. penalty for delay, not 15 yds. for unsportsmanlike conduct. Rule 3-6-4. However, we have specifically been instructed by the IHSAA to treat a “talcum powder delay” as unsportsmanlike conduct.

 

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1 hour ago, SPARKS said:

As a crew chief, I can say I have never been instructed by the IHSAA or any agent of Meridian St how to treat a talcum powder delay.  Have other officials been instructed on the TPD penalty?   IO, has association discussed this?

I communicated a suggestion to the IHSAA that some sort of informational directive to crew chiefs might be helpful. And it was again made very clear to me that they want this penalized if it delays play as unsportsmanlike conduct, and reported.

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12 hours ago, PHJIrish said:

I've seen teams penalized because they were not ready to begin the game or the second half.  Some were even on the sideline when penalized.

Teams are required to be out for the 3 minute warm-up after halftime. It's possible they could have been out at the end of the 3-minute warm-up but not the beginning and that's when the penalty would be enforced. That's likely what happened.

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This JUST came up on our game this past Friday night (Talcum/Baby Powder).

I spoke to the AD at halftime about the LEGAL ramifications that the school could expose themselves to (on the recommendation of an evaluator who was at our game).  

An announcement was made to refrain from this sort of celebration.  But IMO, I think this is ultimately an IHSAA situation that THEY need to address!  

We have 5 officials on the field whose primary focus in the field itself...not the student sections of the host institution.  

The IHSAA needs to step in!  Not officials....

 

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On 8/25/2021 at 8:59 PM, Bobref said:

I communicated a suggestion to the IHSAA that some sort of informational directive to crew chiefs might be helpful. And it was again made very clear to me that they want this penalized if it delays play as unsportsmanlike conduct, and reported.

They need to send this information out to all officials in an email if they want it penalized. Otherwise we are telling the the AD & coach "well on the forum they said to penalize this action". That does not look good.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, refabee said:

They need to send this information out to all officials in an email if they want it penalized. Otherwise we are telling the the AD & coach "well on the forum they said to penalize this action". That does not look good.

No doubt some specific guidance would be helpful. This stuff is usually not a secret. One possible way to handle it is with preventive officiating: mention it to the AD and the coaches in the pregame. Trust them to take care of it.

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22 hours ago, Yuccaguy said:

This JUST came up on our game this past Friday night (Talcum/Baby Powder).

I spoke to the AD at halftime about the LEGAL ramifications that the school could expose themselves to (on the recommendation of an evaluator who was at our game).  

An announcement was made to refrain from this sort of celebration.  But IMO, I think this is ultimately an IHSAA situation that THEY need to address!  

We have 5 officials on the field whose primary focus in the field itself...not the student sections of the host institution.  

The IHSAA needs to step in!  Not officials....

 

I agree with everything you’re saying. I just want to make it clear that the “evaluator” referred to was not me. I don’t typically dispense legal advice when I go to observe a crew. The one time an AD requested a legal opinion from me while I was officiating at his home game, I politely declined.

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19 minutes ago, Bobref said:

I agree with everything you’re saying. I just want to make it clear that the “evaluator” referred to was not me. I don’t typically dispense legal advice when I go to observe a crew. The one time an AD requested a legal opinion from me while I was officiating at his home game, I politely declined.

You just knew he/she couldn't afford your hourly rate?

😁

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59 minutes ago, Bobref said:

No, if something bad happened, I would be a witness. Put me in an awkward position. 

🙂 It was a joke, Bob.  Hence this guy...😁

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13 minutes ago, Bobref said:

So was my response. 😉

I am still learning your nuances.  LOL.

14 minutes ago, Bobref said:

So was my response. 😉

And I sure could have used some of that sweet baby powder to "dry off" Friday.

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2 hours ago, Bobref said:

I agree with everything you’re saying. I just want to make it clear that the “evaluator” referred to was not me. I don’t typically dispense legal advice when I go to observe a crew. The one time an AD requested a legal opinion from me while I was officiating at his home game, I politely declined.

Absolutely WAS NOT Bobref...

The legal suggestion was based upon the situation in "Da Region" (Week One) where some students were sent to the hospital with breathing issues due their having asthma. Coupled that with the talc/baby powder celebration, and some parent might just start seeing $$ on the horizon.  

Again, my complaint is that this is an ADMINISTRATIVE issue, not an officiating issue.  I'd just 'start the car' if I HAD to eject a coach because of this situation were it mandated to be within our purview.  

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8 minutes ago, Yuccaguy said:

Absolutely WAS NOT Bobref...

The legal suggestion was based upon the situation in "Da Region" (Week One) where some students were sent to the hospital with breathing issues due their having asthma. Coupled that with the talc/baby powder celebration, and some parent might just start seeing $$ on the horizon.  

Again, my complaint is that this is an ADMINISTRATIVE issue, not an officiating issue.  I'd just 'start the car' if I HAD to eject a coach because of this situation were it mandated to be within our purview.  

Ours is not to reason why ….

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