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Malaise/Apathy


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1 minute ago, MarshallCounty said:

I'm fine with ESports because at least kids are involved in a club/actvity. 

What if a kid is involved with a club/activity not associated with the government schools?  4-H? Scouting?  Club sports?  Martial Arts?  There are more options out there than ever before.

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Just now, Muda69 said:

What if a kid is involved with a club/activity not associated with the government schools?  4-H? Scouting?  Club sports?  Martial Arts?  There are more options out there than ever before.

Even some those are down in numbers. Look at scouts.  Major problems with enrollment, my sons local scouts disbanded.

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Just now, MarshallCounty said:

Even some those are down in numbers. Look at scouts.  Major problems with enrollment, my sons local scouts disbanded.

Covid devastated the Cub Scout Pack (elementary school) side of scouting.   Troops faired a little better,  but now face the reality that not many Cub Scouts will be moving over to Boy Scouts in the following years.    

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1 minute ago, Muda69 said:

Covid devastated the Cub Scout Pack (elementary school) side of scouting.   Troops faired a little better,  but now face the reality that not many Cub Scouts will be moving over to Boy Scouts in the following years.    

I know. It stinks.  I don't know if there is even a problem or a solution.  It's just something that I've noticed and discussed with people the last few years.  

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33 minutes ago, MarshallCounty said:

This is the best comment so far.  I think society as a whole has changed interests and have found other things to occupy our time.

And there it is! Ask most educators/coaches that have been around 25 - 30 years and you hear the same thing:  "it is just not the same"

Don't see it turning around either.

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15 hours ago, PDB26 said:

Bowling Alone is a book published in 2000 about the decline of bowling leagues and what the author thinks that means for American society at large. I never read it, but I think the decline of bowling leagues, from what I remember and probably in response to this book, was a widely interpreted to mean that Americans were becoming more insular. Certainly, there would be other factors at play, but do a quick search on the book and you can find the publisher's page that describes what the author attempts to show. 

There is no reason to think that other community activities or school extracurriculars--even those for the most vibrant of us all--would be immune to some sort of larger and pervasive societal malady of indifference, the struggle with the demands of modern life or a disinterest or inability to seek connection with others...in person.

Thanks for the info.  I might have to read that, it sounds interesting.

My premise is somewhat similar, I think.  I have noticed the shift from parent-centric to child-centric recreation sports.  For example, my elementary son has a football teammate who is also playing soccer and fall baseball.  Not to mention the sister is in soccer and gymnastics. The parents would probably be great bowlers, golfers, or slow-pitch softball players, but they obviously can't spare one night a week to enjoy any of those activities.  The cynic in me says they get their recreation from living vicariously through their kids. 

Thirty years ago, Evansville was a hotbed for adult slow-pitch softball.  At least 7-8 leagues going 6 nights a week.  I played on 4 nights and often filled in a 5th night.  Now it almost shocks me to drive past (former) Roberts Stadium softball fields and see a game.  That field is the only one still in use by the DPR. All of that has been replaced with a youth baseball/softball/soccer complex on the north side. 

I think people still seek connection with others, just vicariously through their children's lives.  

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2 hours ago, oldtimeqb said:

Thanks for the info.  I might have to read that, it sounds interesting.

My premise is somewhat similar, I think.  I have noticed the shift from parent-centric to child-centric recreation sports.  For example, my elementary son has a football teammate who is also playing soccer and fall baseball.  Not to mention the sister is in soccer and gymnastics. The parents would probably be great bowlers, golfers, or slow-pitch softball players, but they obviously can't spare one night a week to enjoy any of those activities.  The cynic in me says they get their recreation from living vicariously through their kids. 

Thirty years ago, Evansville was a hotbed for adult slow-pitch softball.  At least 7-8 leagues going 6 nights a week.  I played on 4 nights and often filled in a 5th night.  Now it almost shocks me to drive past (former) Roberts Stadium softball fields and see a game.  That field is the only one still in use by the DPR. All of that has been replaced with a youth baseball/softball/soccer complex on the north side. 

I think people still seek connection with others, just vicariously through their children's lives.  

I can somewhat attest to this, but it's way beyond just sports.  My boys play football and baseball as well as travel baseball.  My daughter plays volleyball.  In addition, there's also church activities that they are involved in including altar server and youth groups.  My wife and I spend so much time driving kids back and forth to events and then showing up for support stuff like working concessions, or breakfasts, etc.  I had signed up to play slow-pitch softball for the men's league at church, but ended up having to back out between managing the practices, weekday games, and tournaments.  One of the things that I tended to do that helped me do some physical activity was coaching and, in that, I was able to merge community service, sharing an activity with my kids, and getting a little exercise too.  My situation might be a bit different from some folks in that I have five kids, so even if I'm just spending a half hour per kid driving folks back and forth, I burn 2 1/2 hours just playing chauffeur ... add into that that I rarely get to just go from one place to the next and I end up with pockets of 15 minutes here and 20 minutes there and a half hour there of time where I can get anything done waiting for the next pick-up/drop-off to happen and I end up burning 3 hours or more just driving around each day.  I always tell my kids that my calendar would be so clear that I wouldn't know what to do with all the spare time if I didn't have their schedules clogging up mine. 😀

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I think that there are a lot of valid points with all of this.  I still believe that the major issue with athletics in our state is that kids don't get free time away.  Our football team was doing things in the gym starting in December and used the open facilities to their fullest.  If you have seen us play it hasn't helped.  

When most of us played in the 80's and 90's we had our season, if we wrestled or played basketball we did that, then we went to our spring sport.  I played three sports and never had to practice a sport out of season.  During the summer we had weights for football three days a week for an hour or two and open gyms for basketball once to twice a week for a couple of hours.  These were in the evening so kids could work and if someone didn't show up the coaches didn't get their panties in a bundle.

We are asking too much of kids and they decide to give up these activities so they can work, chase girls, or do something on their own.  They don't need to have a coach telling them they need to lift, do 7 on 7, show up to walk throughs then go to basketball and play two leagues a week and go to workouts/open gyms.  Then attend team camps on the weekends.

Kids that want to work or have to work to make money so they can have a car or just some cash to take their girls out to dinner can't do that and play sports.  When you make kids choose they will choose.  Don't be upset when they don't choose what you want them to.

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21 minutes ago, Plymouthfan91 said:

I think that there are a lot of valid points with all of this.  I still believe that the major issue with athletics in our state is that kids don't get free time away.  Our football team was doing things in the gym starting in December and used the open facilities to their fullest.  If you have seen us play it hasn't helped.  

When most of us played in the 80's and 90's we had our season, if we wrestled or played basketball we did that, then we went to our spring sport.  I played three sports and never had to practice a sport out of season.  During the summer we had weights for football three days a week for an hour or two and open gyms for basketball once to twice a week for a couple of hours.  These were in the evening so kids could work and if someone didn't show up the coaches didn't get their panties in a bundle.

We are asking too much of kids and they decide to give up these activities so they can work, chase girls, or do something on their own.  They don't need to have a coach telling them they need to lift, do 7 on 7, show up to walk throughs then go to basketball and play two leagues a week and go to workouts/open gyms.  Then attend team camps on the weekends.

Kids that want to work or have to work to make money so they can have a car or just some cash to take their girls out to dinner can't do that and play sports.  When you make kids choose they will choose.  Don't be upset when they don't choose what you want them to.

Well put.........sometimes, the "less is more" mindset is actually true. The dramatic increase in time commitment has had an impact on coaches for years now, as many have chosen to walk away from coaching; and you are likely right; kids know the time commitment involved and are just not willing to commit the kind of time necessary to be a part of a program. I would add in that there is a common thought among football coaches; if we cut back on the time commitment for football, the other sports will take that time to expand their programs; and we could lose kids to them. Not sure there are any simple solutions now. Even if restrictions increase for football; there is not a club season like basketball and baseball have to get around IHSAA limits. 

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13 hours ago, Plymouthfan91 said:

I think that there are a lot of valid points with all of this.  I still believe that the major issue with athletics in our state is that kids don't get free time away.  Our football team was doing things in the gym starting in December and used the open facilities to their fullest.  If you have seen us play it hasn't helped.  

When most of us played in the 80's and 90's we had our season, if we wrestled or played basketball we did that, then we went to our spring sport.  I played three sports and never had to practice a sport out of season.  During the summer we had weights for football three days a week for an hour or two and open gyms for basketball once to twice a week for a couple of hours.  These were in the evening so kids could work and if someone didn't show up the coaches didn't get their panties in a bundle.

We are asking too much of kids and they decide to give up these activities so they can work, chase girls, or do something on their own.  They don't need to have a coach telling them they need to lift, do 7 on 7, show up to walk throughs then go to basketball and play two leagues a week and go to workouts/open gyms.  Then attend team camps on the weekends.

Kids that want to work or have to work to make money so they can have a car or just some cash to take their girls out to dinner can't do that and play sports.  When you make kids choose they will choose.  Don't be upset when they don't choose what you want them to.

Rack this post.

https://www.freerangekids.com/

 

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14 hours ago, Plymouthfan91 said:

I think that there are a lot of valid points with all of this.  I still believe that the major issue with athletics in our state is that kids don't get free time away.  Our football team was doing things in the gym starting in December and used the open facilities to their fullest.  If you have seen us play it hasn't helped.  

When most of us played in the 80's and 90's we had our season, if we wrestled or played basketball we did that, then we went to our spring sport.  I played three sports and never had to practice a sport out of season.  During the summer we had weights for football three days a week for an hour or two and open gyms for basketball once to twice a week for a couple of hours.  These were in the evening so kids could work and if someone didn't show up the coaches didn't get their panties in a bundle.

We are asking too much of kids and they decide to give up these activities so they can work, chase girls, or do something on their own.  They don't need to have a coach telling them they need to lift, do 7 on 7, show up to walk throughs then go to basketball and play two leagues a week and go to workouts/open gyms.  Then attend team camps on the weekends.

Kids that want to work or have to work to make money so they can have a car or just some cash to take their girls out to dinner can't do that and play sports.  When you make kids choose they will choose.  Don't be upset when they don't choose what you want them to.

Some excellent points.....

Our youngest child, a girl, graduated from a 6A school a couple of years ago.  She was a cheerleader and ran track.  Cheer was an eye opener for us...how competitive it was, injuries, etc.  It would start in the summer with camps, and would last through fall and winter if she cheered both football and basketball.  Long season....at least we thought.

Track season would start....and then the cheer coach would be at it again...tryouts near spring break for fall and practice starting immediately to be ready for the summer camp competitions.  The coach would show no mercy to the girls running track or in other spring sports, and the coaches would not work together.  Put our daughter and some other girls right in the middle.  Track practice for a couple of hours after school, to be immediately followed by another couple hours of cheer practice.  My wife and I were ticked.  We went to the athletic administration for help when it became obvious coaches would not work together and compromise.  No way were we subjecting our daughter to 4 hours + of practice per night, then to only start homework late.  (she was an excellent student)  So we put the hammer down....no cheer practice.  Put her in a bad spot with her coach and she took it out on her by playing head games during the summer seasons.  We coached her to simply deal with the games.  She was an excellent cheerleader and we knew by fall she would be back in her spot and she was.  We learned that cheer was pretty much year round....or at least 9 months if a child only cheered the fall or winter seasons.  Way, way too long.

It was ridiculous....coaches not working together....only wanting their needs fulfilled...obviously not concerned for the well-being of the student athlete.  That cheer coach is no longer on the staff, but left a really bad taste in our mouths.  Glad those days are behind in the rear view mirror.

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22 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

It was ridiculous....coaches not working together....only wanting their needs fulfilled...obviously not concerned for the well-being of the student athlete.  That cheer coach is no longer on the staff, but left a really bad taste in our mouths.  Glad those days are behind in the rear view mirror.

Sounds like a bad situation and a shame the coaches couldn't work together. It appears that coaches cooperate at our school, or if they don't, it doesn't show. My son wrestles and plays football, and my daughter plays basketball and is a football manager. All 3 of those coaches are flexible..........as long as they are aware of any conflicting plans.

 

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1 minute ago, gonzoron said:

Sounds like a bad situation and a shame the coaches couldn't work together. It appears that coaches cooperate at our school, or if they don't, it doesn't show. My son wrestles and plays football, and my daughter plays basketball and is a football manager. All 3 of those coaches are flexible..........as long as they are aware of any conflicting plans.

 

that's great...and as it should be.

I hope I didn't paint a picture for all coaches at our old school....my guess is that most coaches would work together and resolve.  

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1 hour ago, Bash Riprock said:

Some excellent points.....

Our youngest child, a girl, graduated from a 6A school a couple of years ago.  She was a cheerleader and ran track.  Cheer was an eye opener for us...how competitive it was, injuries, etc.  It would start in the summer with camps, and would last through fall and winter if she cheered both football and basketball.  Long season....at least we thought.

Track season would start....and then the cheer coach would be at it again...tryouts near spring break for fall and practice starting immediately to be ready for the summer camp competitions.  The coach would show no mercy to the girls running track or in other spring sports, and the coaches would not work together.  Put our daughter and some other girls right in the middle.  Track practice for a couple of hours after school, to be immediately followed by another couple hours of cheer practice.  My wife and I were ticked.  We went to the athletic administration for help when it became obvious coaches would not work together and compromise.  No way were we subjecting our daughter to 4 hours + of practice per night, then to only start homework late.  (she was an excellent student)  So we put the hammer down....no cheer practice.  Put her in a bad spot with her coach and she took it out on her by playing head games during the summer seasons.  We coached her to simply deal with the games.  She was an excellent cheerleader and we knew by fall she would be back in her spot and she was.  We learned that cheer was pretty much year round....or at least 9 months if a child only cheered the fall or winter seasons.  Way, way too long.

It was ridiculous....coaches not working together....only wanting their needs fulfilled...obviously not concerned for the well-being of the student athlete.  That cheer coach is no longer on the staff, but left a really bad taste in our mouths.  Glad those days are behind in the rear view mirror.

Some coaches fake it better than others and while all of us on this board seem to share one thing in common (our love of football), in my experience football coaches are some of the most difficult to work with when it comes to multi-sport athletes.

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Just now, temptation said:

Some coaches fake it better than others and while all of us on this board seem to share one thing in common (our love of football), in my experience football coaches are some of the most difficult to work with when it comes to multi-sport athletes.

Hang out with a few basketball coaches and see if that changes your opinion.  Actually I don't think it is one sport more selfish than the other, it comes down to the individual head coaches.

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11 minutes ago, MarshallCounty said:

Hang out with a few basketball coaches and see if that changes your opinion.  Actually I don't think it is one sport more selfish than the other, it comes down to the individual head coaches.

Undoubtedly but was just speaking regarding MY experience.  Nothing more/less.

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1 hour ago, gonzoron said:

I wonder if the situation would have been any different if Cheerleading was an IHSAA recognized sport(as it really should be)? 

I'm not sure... interesting question.  Although our school does award letters for varsity participation.

I noticed DE laughed in response to your question.  I will tell anyone...the girls that are truly competitive cheer are indeed athletes.  Tumbling, stunts, dance, etc.  They work their butts off, and it takes real strength, stamina, athleticism and courage.  Vast majority of folks could not replicate what a competitive cheer team can do.  Unfortunately, way too many injuries as well.

I had my paradigms going in and they changed.  So did my wife's who was a division 1 athlete back during her college days.

https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2017/10/12/flipside-cheerleading-prevalence-catastrophic-injuries/

https://www.geisinger.org/health-and-wellness/wellness-articles/2018/02/19/15/58/jump-stunt-and-tumble-the-dangers-of-cheerleading

 

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36 minutes ago, temptation said:

Some coaches fake it better than others and while all of us on this board seem to share one thing in common (our love of football), in my experience football coaches are some of the most difficult to work with when it comes to multi-sport athletes.

I am actually shocked to read this. In 29 years of coaching, my experience is that football coaches are the only ones to tell kids to do other sports as well. As far as the ones who do the opposite, I would say it's a dead heat with Basketball and Baseball. In one building I was in a coach that had resigned said the one thing he was proudest of is that he had kids playing basketball 12 months a year. While some baseball coaches help with football or are fans, the ones I have known want their kids to do as much baseball in the Summer as they can. I know kids who play or played about 80 games in a Summer; WAY too many. And while some encourage other sports, they discourage them from football. Some of those baseball coaches actually see the Summer as an extension of the Spring season. I don't. I say it is the start of the next season because the seniors that graduated are no longer on the Summer teams. 

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