jakone Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Last week Luers was ranked #11 overall. This week after Luers beats a 5a team 55-9 and drops to #50 overall and 5th in 2a. Can anyone explain that one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLCTigerFan07 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 It's been well discussed before, the SAC and SIAC both suffer in Sagarin Ratings because they play "closed" schedules of 9 game only conference teams. It messes with the Sagarin Ratings because of this. Things will change drastically after the first week of the tournament when they play teams outside of conference play. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshallCounty Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 It means nothing and is not accurate. Nothing to be worried about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakone Posted September 20, 2021 Author Share Posted September 20, 2021 20 minutes ago, NLCTigerFan07 said: It's been well discussed before, the SAC and SIAC both suffer in Sagarin Ratings because they play "closed" schedules of 9 game only conference teams. It messes with the Sagarin Ratings because of this. Things will change drastically after the first week of the tournament when they play teams outside of conference play. Then why were they ranked #11 last week? Did this idiotic criteria just start this week? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeqb Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 32 minutes ago, MarshallCounty said: It means nothing and is not accurate. Nothing to be worried about. I'm not so sure. I've heard the IHSAA is not going to give out Sectional trophies this year, but instead "Top 48 Sagarin" trophies at the end of week 10. I could be mistaken though. 😄 3 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLCTigerFan07 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 29 minutes ago, jakone said: Then why were they ranked #11 last week? Did this idiotic criteria just start this week? No it will have an effect on SAC and SIAC teams each and every week. This is due to the fact that the formula used by Sagarin has no way to reference/compare those teams performances against any other teams in the state. Again, this has been discussed many times over the years and there are probably some better answers/responses that explain it better. No need to get your feathers all ruffled. "Idiotic criteria"... it's just one man's formula rankings that has a flaw in it if a group of teams only play amongst each other. Everyone knows Luers is a hell of a team this year. Where they rank among Sagarin's poll means nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarshallCounty Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 Also, like NLC stated, it really only measures in state games. Out of state games are not measured. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 All I know is that in the PAC must be beastly this year per Sagarin. Three teams in the Top 15 (and another South team, Linton 19th, btw) The SAC and SIAC crazy numbers are to be expected because of the closed conferences. Not sure though, about some of this other stuff. Guess I don’t want to hear anyone South complain about being disrespected - at least for the moment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan20 Posted September 20, 2021 Share Posted September 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Lysander said: All I know is that in the PAC must be beastly this year per Sagarin. Three teams in the Top 15 (and another South team, Linton 19th, btw) I have a feeling the PAC issues will sort themselves out in the next two weeks…😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psaboy Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Sagarin rankings are not real. Kind of like the weekly polls, though not subjective, just meaningless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 4 minutes ago, psaboy said: Sagarin rankings are not real. Kind of like the weekly polls, though not subjective, just meaningless. Exactly—comple BS 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 9 minutes ago, Gipper said: Exactly—comple BS The real battle is on the field Mano a Mano—not some geeks on a TRS-80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 On 9/20/2021 at 9:53 AM, jakone said: Last week Luers was ranked #11 overall. This week after Luers beats a 5a team 55-9 and drops to #50 overall and 5th in 2a. Can anyone explain that one? Doesn’t mean Jack crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 Why no love for Sagarin? It’s not his fault that some conferences are “closed.” Except for the closed conferences, for whom the algorithms he uses don’t work well, his system is amazingly accurate at predicting winners, especially in the playoffs. He doesn’t sit in an office with a pencil and a green eye shade figuring out which teams to disrespect this week. It’s all math once you develop the algorithms. You folks who do nothing but complain because the Sagarin rankings don’t jibe with what you think should be the order, let’s see you pick against Sagarin and do a better job over the long haul. Believe me, you won’t. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psaboy Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Bobref said: Why no love for Sagarin? It’s not his fault that some conferences are “closed.” Except for the closed conferences, for whom the algorithms he uses don’t work well, his system is amazingly accurate at predicting winners, especially in the playoffs. He doesn’t sit in an office with a pencil and a green eye shade figuring out which teams to disrespect this week. It’s all math once you develop the algorithms. You folks who do nothing but complain because the Sagarin rankings don’t jibe with what you think should be the order, let’s see you pick against Sagarin and do a better job over the long haul. Believe me, you won’t. I would really like to see how smart he is. He should be able to incorporate an algorithm that takes a closed conference into consideration. 😜 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimeqb Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 9 hours ago, Gipper said: The real battle is on the field Mano a Mano—not some geeks on a TRS-80 No love for the Trash 80? I did my best programming with one of those. I also had the snazziest pocket protectors then too, but that’s another story. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DumfriesYMCA Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 It’s a free public resource. I’m just glad we have it week 10/11 is generally the most accurate because SAC and SIAC finally play out of conference…as well as most of the state. until then….sagarin is just a way to look and be like “well this team is certainly good” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakone Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 2 hours ago, Bobref said: Why no love for Sagarin? It’s not his fault that some conferences are “closed.” Except for the closed conferences, for whom the algorithms he uses don’t work well, his system is amazingly accurate at predicting winners, especially in the playoffs. He doesn’t sit in an office with a pencil and a green eye shade figuring out which teams to disrespect this week. It’s all math once you develop the algorithms. You folks who do nothing but complain because the Sagarin rankings don’t jibe with what you think should be the order, let’s see you pick against Sagarin and do a better job over the long haul. Believe me, you won’t. I have brains enough to know that there isn't 83 teams better than Luers. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gipper Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 On. The. Field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobref Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 2 hours ago, psaboy said: I would really like to see how smart he is. He should be able to incorporate an algorithm that takes a closed conference into consideration. 😜 I don’t know if the math allows that or not … and I’m guessing you don’t know that either. But if he could, why would he? He makes his living by supplying ratings and statistical analyses for college football and the NFL. Do you think he receives any remuneration for putting together the ratings for Indiana High School football? We should be thankful we have what no other state has for high school football. And the reason his algorithms don’t work for closed conferences is that no college conference or NFL division/conference is dumb enough to have a closed schedule. The only reason conferences have that in Indiana is ease of scheduling. Always playing the same schools in the same order reduces the potential for growth. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysander Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Bobref said: I don’t know if the math allows that or not … and I’m guessing you don’t know that either. But if he could, why would he? He makes his living by supplying ratings and statistical analyses for college football and the NFL. Do you think he receives any remuneration for putting together the ratings for Indiana High School football? We should be thankful we have what no other state has for high school football. And the reason his algorithms don’t work for closed conferences is that no college conference or NFL division/conference is dumb enough to have a closed schedule. The only reason conferences have that in Indiana is ease of scheduling. Always playing the same schools in the same order reduces the potential for growth. I share your “zeal” as regards closed conference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 13 hours ago, Bobref said: Why no love for Sagarin? It’s not his fault that some conferences are “closed.” Except for the closed conferences, for whom the algorithms he uses don’t work well, his system is amazingly accurate at predicting winners, especially in the playoffs. He doesn’t sit in an office with a pencil and a green eye shade figuring out which teams to disrespect this week. It’s all math once you develop the algorithms. You folks who do nothing but complain because the Sagarin rankings don’t jibe with what you think should be the order, let’s see you pick against Sagarin and do a better job over the long haul. Believe me, you won’t. Jakeone is excited about this Luers team, and rightfully so. I'm sure it bothers him that Sagarin doesn't have an accurate read on the SAC. Everyone knows Luers, Snider, Carroll, and Homestead are all Top 20 programs. 11 hours ago, DumfriesYMCA said: It’s a free public resource. I’m just glad we have it Bingo. 10 hours ago, jakone said: I have brains enough to know that there isn't 83 teams better than Luers. You and everyone else on this forum. Don't get so worked up. It's not the ratings fault that the SAC is closed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 10 hours ago, Bobref said: I don’t know if the math allows that or not … and I’m guessing you don’t know that either. But if he could, why would he? He makes his living by supplying ratings and statistical analyses for college football and the NFL. Do you think he receives any remuneration for putting together the ratings for Indiana High School football? We should be thankful we have what no other state has for high school football. Couldn't have said it better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NLCTigerFan07 Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 1 hour ago, BTF said: I'm sure it bothers him that Sagarin doesn't have an accurate read on the SAC. Everyone knows Luers, Snider, Carroll, and Homestead are all Top 20 programs. For what it's worth, the Sagarin ratings just do not have an accurate read on the SAC in regards to the rest of the state. I would point out though, amongst each other, it is a great indicator of who the better teams are in their conference, which Luers is the top ranked SAC team. It works in that sense 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTF Posted September 27, 2021 Share Posted September 27, 2021 9 hours ago, NLCTigerFan07 said: For what it's worth, the Sagarin ratings just do not have an accurate read on the SAC in regards to the rest of the state. I would point out though, amongst each other, it is a great indicator of who the better teams are in their conference, which Luers is the top ranked SAC team. It works in that sense 😄 Yes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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