foxbat Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 55 minutes ago, Muda69 said: So the opposition to wind turbines in Tippecanoe county is not NIMBYism because the opposition has a zero degree of unreasonableness attached to it? I thought you were a proponent of clean energy systems? I think they make sense provided that they make sense in more than just a single way including monetary cost/benefit unless balanced by non-monetary benefits that are meaningful, environmental impacts, citizen impacts, etc. I'm more a proponent of looking for balanced solutions whenever possible. By your definition and push then, anytime someone says no its NIMBYism ... which isn't the way it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 hour ago, foxbat said: I think they make sense provided that they make sense in more than just a single way including monetary cost/benefit unless balanced by non-monetary benefits that are meaningful, environmental impacts, citizen impacts, etc. I'm more a proponent of looking for balanced solutions whenever possible. By your definition and push then, anytime someone says no its NIMBYism ... which isn't the way it works. But I still don't understand why the push against wind turbines in Tippecanoe county is not NIMBYism. After all most of the southern half of the county looks to be prime wind turbine area, it's mostly rural and the average wind speeds look right: https://www.wlfi.com/content/news/Windy-history-505479431.html What do you believe is the best clean energy solution for Tippecanoe county? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, Muda69 said: But I still don't understand why the push against wind turbines in Tippecanoe county is not NIMBYism. After all most of the southern half of the county looks to be prime wind turbine area, it's mostly rural and the average wind speeds look right: https://www.wlfi.com/content/news/Windy-history-505479431.html What do you believe is the best clean energy solution for Tippecanoe county? Here's a journal article specifically concerning attitudes, reasons for, reasons, against, etc. windpower in three Indiana counties: Benton, Boone, and Tippecanoe. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/75d4/1e29fbea231623c8fe6139a52dac7c549ad0.pdf As for my belief, I've got a whole bunch of other things on my plate that are within my pay grade that need more immediate attention, so a complete and final solution, from my perspective, will most likely be a future endeavor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, foxbat said: Here's a journal article specifically concerning attitudes, reasons for, reasons, against, etc. windpower in three Indiana counties: Benton, Boone, and Tippecanoe. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/75d4/1e29fbea231623c8fe6139a52dac7c549ad0.pdf As for my belief, I've got a whole bunch of other things on my plate that are within my pay grade that need more immediate attention, so a complete and final solution, from my perspective, will most likely be a future endeavor. Thank you for the link. A quick perusal seems to be a classic "city/urban people" vs. "rural people" divide. And since Benton county doesn't have anything resembling a city............... Some excerpts: Quote The importance of agriculture in the communities also resonates within the opposition to wind farm development. During public forums, many residents voiced their opposition to the possible turbine ordinance because of concerns that it would allow other development in the agriculture area. Other residents are concerned that wind farm development would prevent them from selling their land for either commercial or residential development in the future. These differing opinions highlight the complexities that arise in areas that are more densely populated as well as showcase the difficulties for ordinance creation, which has slowed wind farm development in Tippecanoe and Boone counties. .... Some of the differences between counties may be reflective of what Bell et al. (2005) called ‘‘democratic deficits,’’ in which a small minority of opponents to wind energy is able to block efforts, despite the difference with majority opinion. One local government official characterized the deficit as, ‘‘One thing you learn in government, 90% of your noise comes from 10% of the people. And this group [the local opposition group] was making 90% of the noise. So we were listening to this group; we were kinda working with this group, when those who were in favor should have been up from the get-go, saying, ‘This is what needs to be done.’’’ Another local government official said, ‘‘one of the problems that happens in county government, state government, is people don’t speak upyAnd that’s one of the things we’re asking people to do—tell us, tell us what you think. Whether you’re for, against, or don’t care, we’d like to know what you think.’’ The same official later mentioned that, ‘‘The voice of the majority isn’t always heard. The most vocal aren’t necessarily the majority in many situations.’ .... A clear distinction between Benton and Boone County is their levels of pre-existing industry and development. Benton County has minimal industry aside from agriculture, which contributed greatly to their support of the turbine industry. Boone County has very well developed industrial areas and has close proximity to Indianapolis, the largest city in the state. A local official characterized this difference as, ‘‘Well, and you know, we have a different – If you compare us to, say, Benton County, from the getgo, there’s major differences – from a population standpoint, from an industry standpoint, locationally. There’s just several differences. So, you know, their efforts to get this done quickly make a lot of sense.’’ These levels of distinction between counties become less evident when comparing Benton and Boone to Tippecanoe. Boone County is very similar to Tippecanoe in both population and available farmland. These similarities and differences can be seen in Table 1. Another distinction revealed through the interviews was that residents have specifically chosen Boone County so they can live in a rural area and commute to work. These small landowners who had intentionally chosen the bucolic landscape then oppose the siting of wind turbines for aesthetic reasons. A Boone County government official described Boone County’s population as ‘‘a large number of people who move here to be away from the city. And they’re vocal. Once they get theirs, they want to protect it.’’ One representative of an opposition group described their concerns as, ‘‘So I wanted to come back here and live in the country and kind of make my own little homestead and all that and seems like, oh, it’s been that dream has been taken away by an outside company coming in to say, oh, we’re gonna be green but we’re gonna ship this power you know, out here and use your land to do it.’’ Although the attitude was most prevalent in Boone County, a local government official from Benton County also indicated that these ‘‘urbanites’’ are the concern with those opposed to wind farm development, ‘‘Because you got the people in town, they are not so much the problem, it’s the people that left town and moved out into the country and build homes out there.’’ In Tippecanoe County, a local government official characterized this tension as, I think it’s because you have the little two, three-acre resident that’s living on just that, y’know, ‘‘I’m out in the country, I’m enjoying the country, but I own two acres,’’ versus Mr. Farmer sitting beside him that owns 200 acres. Well, you know. They’re gonna speak up. And I can understand where those citizens come from. The final difference between the three counties was the support of the local government for wind farm development and the public influence over the development. In Benton County, where Indiana’s wind farm development began in 2008, the local government and members of the voluntary planning commission were extremely supportive of wind energy. Some of these individuals have even sited turbines on their own property. ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Muda69 said: But I still don't understand why the push against wind turbines in Tippecanoe county is not NIMBYism. After all most of the southern half of the county looks to be prime wind turbine area, it's mostly rural and the average wind speeds look right: https://www.wlfi.com/content/news/Windy-history-505479431.html What do you believe is the best clean energy solution for Tippecanoe county? Nuclear. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wabash82 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Muda69 said: But I still don't understand why the push against wind turbines in Tippecanoe county is not NIMBYism. After all most of the southern half of the county looks to be prime wind turbine area, it's mostly rural and the average wind speeds look right: https://www.wlfi.com/content/news/Windy-history-505479431.html What do you believe is the best clean energy solution for Tippecanoe county? 4 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: Nuclear. Cow fart methane capture. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, Impartial_Observer said: Nuclear. Not a bad option. Doesn't Purdue have a small reactor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 17 hours ago, Muda69 said: Not a bad option. Doesn't Purdue have a small reactor? I still believe nuclear is the answer, my only advice would be don't build it on the beach of an island that's prone to earthquakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swordfish Posted April 3, 2019 Author Share Posted April 3, 2019 (edited) Edited April 3, 2019 by swordfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxbat Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 2 hours ago, swordfish said: That top one was proven wrong by Troj over on the pussy grabber thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muda69 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Impartial_Observer Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 2 hours ago, swordfish said: I swear to god if the R's aren't smart enough to primary Holcomb, if the D's run ANYONE to the right of Lenin, I'll vote for them! And I thought Pence was bad! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impartial_Observer Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 4 hours ago, TrojanDad said: Are you talking state roads or city streets? In Indy, the issue seems more with the city Not totally road related, his general lack of leadership in general. He also signed the bill that raised our gas taxes 10 cents a gallon last year, which I was in favor of, WHERE’S THE PLAN? WHERE’S THE NEW ROADS? WTF are we building a six lane interstate between Seymour and Walesboro? Understandably that project predates Holcomb. Where’s the plan to extend six lanes on 65 south of Franklin and north of Memphis? Is hate crimes law really our biggest concern in the state at this point in history? Why does he dismiss cannabis just on the face of it? Hemp farming? The dude’s a RINO! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonzoron Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Muda69 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 Yep, "free" government money distorts the market and drives up prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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gonzoron Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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Muda69 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 On 4/5/2019 at 2:56 PM, foxbat said: I don't understand this quote. What exactly is meant by "filling up on bread"? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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